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Thread: H.R. 822 A Trojan Horse?

  1. #1

    Default H.R. 822 A Trojan Horse?

    Is H.R. 822 A Trojan Horse? What does Gun Owners of America say about H.R. 822, the NRA is supporting this bill..

    Some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.

    Of course, I’m talking about H.R. 822, the so-called “National Reciprocity Act,” which could open the flood gates of gun control.

    I’m calling it the National CCW Registration Act.

    While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.

    Once the Federal Government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it’s only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.

    Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn’t do that, and maybe that’s true … for now.

    Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything … and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way. And that doesn’t count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the “regulations” to carry out the legislative “intent.”

    I know many of you are frustrated that you can carry in some states but not others — I’m frustrated, too.

    I carry concealed every day, everywhere I go, and have worked to expand the ability of citizens to carry in dozens of states.

    I believe I should be able to carry concealed — without a permit — in all 50 states. That’s what “bear arms” means. Believe me, that’s a long-term policy goal for the National Association for Gun Rights.

    But mark my words, H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act, will become nothing more than a Trojan Horse for even more federal gun control.

    I understand that many who support this bill sincerely just want their right to carry respected — but cannot due to the fact that their state or another won’t do the right thing.

    But the devil is truly in the details… and the details are where H.R. 822 gets sticky.

    This bill isn’t just about the right to carry for self defense — it’s a battle over the role of government and the ability to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

    We’re talking about:

    More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
    Higher fees;
    More training requirements;
    A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
    More frequent renewal periods;
    Federally-mandated waiting periods;
    A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
    An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
    The list of potential problems is endless.
    Not to mention this legislation would shred the Constitutional Carry provisions that are on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

    It doesn’t stop with just concealed carry. They’ll co-opt the bill to expand the national Brady Registration Check system to block military veterans with PTSD or individuals with misdemeanor convictions from even OWNING firearms — much less use them for self defense


    http://www.nationalgunrights.org/h-r...-trojan-horse/


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  3. #2
    Member bxm042's Avatar
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    Most states already do honor other state's permits... so really there isn't much point for this bill, and they are right it does set a precedent against states rights.

    I think the GOA makes very good points, I agree.

  4. #3

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    2nd Amendment should be the only "permit" you need.
    Heads and Hips, Heads and Hips!

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Most states already do honor other state's permits... so really there isn't much point for this bill, and they are right it does set a precedent against states rights.

    I think the GOA makes very good points, I agree.
    I agree. There is no apparent point to this. Therefor the real point is not readily apparent.

    The only blanket law I would care to see is the recognition of the Right to Carry in any manner and in any place that a US Resident chooses. A law that would prohibit any and all infringement on that right.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5

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    I am seeing similar posts on a very large number of websites and forums suggesting that H.R. 822 is a Trojan Horse. If you Google “H.R. 822 Trojan Horse” you will get 51,900 results. Surprisingly these posts all have strange similarities and if you read them carefully, you will see that they all come from the same source. These postings all have the same false and misleading statements. With all the false information and dirty tricks being done by the anti-gun lobby, I believe that these Trojan Horse postings are a false flag blitz by the anti-gun groups as a ploy to get gun owners to lobby against H.R. 822. Don't let them fool you! For my part, I am going to stick with the NRA on this one. I will continue to support passage and fight like hell against any changes to H.R. 822.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    I will continue to support passage and fight like hell against any changes to H.R. 822.
    Interesting,,
    First post in support of more Federal Laws in an area that the Federal Government should not be at all involved.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Interesting,,
    First post in support of more Federal Laws in an area that the Federal Government should not be at all involved.
    This proposed law is at least a step in the right direction. The other choice is to oppose it and let things stand as they are.

    “ . . . THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”
    “shall not be infringed” does not give (or reserve to) the States the power to infringe; instead it specifically DENIES the Federal Government AND the States that power. The RIGHT to “keep and bear arms” belongs to (and is reserved by) the people.

    This is not an issue of States' rights but rather is an issue of the Federal Government fulfilling its obligations to prevent States from denying citizens' US Constitutional rights!

    The United States Constitution
    Article IV - The States
    Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
    Article VI - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths
    · · ·
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
    [The Speaker of the House administers the oath of office as follows:
    "I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."]
    The Amendments
    AMENDMENT II - Ratified 12/15/1791.
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    AMENDMENT X - Ratified 12/15/1791.
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    AMENDMENT XIV - Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.
    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    · · ·
    Section 5.
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    This proposed law is at least a step in the right direction. The other choice is to oppose it and let things stand as they are.

    “ . . . THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”
    “shall not be infringed” does not give (or reserve to) the States the power to infringe; instead it specifically DENIES the Federal Government AND the States that power. The RIGHT to “keep and bear arms” belongs to (and is reserved by) the people.

    This is not an issue of States' rights but rather is an issue of the Federal Government fulfilling its obligations to prevent States from denying citizens' US Constitutional rights!
    It is not a "step in the right direction", it is a continuing march in the same direction.

    A step in the right direction would be repealing any and all laws concerning the Right to Carry..
    Regardless of state lines, arbitrary boundaries or manner of carry. (open or concealed).

    Not another Federal law that would standardize requirements and restrictions nationwide. Let alone the data base that would be necessary.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    For my part, I am going to stick with the NRA on this one. I will continue to support passage and fight like hell against any changes to H.R. 822.
    The NRA is not our friend. They were infiltrated, sold out, whatever, long ago.

    There should not be a single piece of federal or state level legislation on the books beyond the 2a. It works fine for VT and AK.
    Heads and Hips, Heads and Hips!

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merk View Post
    The NRA is not our friend. They were infiltrated, sold out, whatever, long ago.

    There should not be a single piece of federal or state level legislation on the books beyond the 2a. It works fine for VT and AK.
    That ^
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

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