Amish Men Jailed After Refusing To Pay Fines For Not Installing Safety Signs On Buggies

[Rael]

(Reuters) - Eight members of a traditional Amish sect were behind bars on Tuesday after refusing to pay fines for failure to display orange-red safety triangles on their horse-drawn buggies.

The eight were being held in the Graves County Jail, serving sentences ranging between three and 10 days for failing to pay the fines on religious grounds.

Graves District Judge Deborah Hawkins ordered the men jailed Monday in Mayfield, about 200 miles from Louisville in western Kentucky. The defendants contend that paying the fines would amount to complying with a law that violates their religious restrictions against wearing or displaying bright colors or relying upon man-made symbols for their safety.

Graves County Jailer Randy Haley said Tuesday that the men brought Bibles with them when they reported to jail late Monday night and were given dark-colored jumpsuits and sandals to wear instead of the standard orange coveralls. All were placed together in a large holding cell, Haley said.

The Kentucky Court of Appeals denied an appeal of the men's misdemeanor convictions in June. The case has been appealed to the state Supreme Court, which has not ruled on whether it will hear the case.

Dozens of Amish people and supporters were on hand as Hawkins handed down the sentences, which varied depending on the amount of unpaid fines and court costs. A ninth defendant was ordered to jail initially but the sentence was lifted when a friend paid so the man could care for an ailing son who has cerebral palsy.

All of the defendants are members of a traditional Amish group known as the Old Order of Swartzentruber. Other Amish groups in Kentucky do comply with the requirements to display the safety signs on the rear of their buggies.

"We're certainly disappointed that the judge chose to go forward," the men's lawyer, William Sharp, said in an interview Tuesday. "... We thought it was unnecessary to do so until the cases had been conclusively resolved one way or another by the Kentucky Supreme Court."

Sharp, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union in Louisville, said he filed the appeal with the Supreme Court on June 30. Explaining her decision to go forward with the sentencing, Hawkins said she had 44 cases involving the same charge on her docket Monday.

"It's time we move forward," she said.

[Valli6]

Interesting fact: The Amish dislike the color orange.

Recently, I saw a craft show that interviewed a woman who was an expert on amish quilts. For those who don't know, the amish quilting style is well known and admired for it's distinct style. It's often imitated by other quilters. She stated that a genuine Amish quilt will never include the color orange because they consider it too garish. So no orange safety signs or jumpsuits for them either.

As this happened in Kentucky, I wonder if Rand will say anything in their defense?

[Rael]

Interesting fact: The Amish dislike the color orange.

Good to know. I have been trying to repel them with crosses and garlic, but it didn't seem to be effective.

[oyarde]

Hmmmm.... What judge would do such a thing ??

[limequat]

A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.

[Vessol]

A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.

This.

[Revolution9]

A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.

That is Universal. As above, so below.

Rev9

[Travlyr]

I feel safer now.

[ItsTime]

link?

[TexMac]

I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

[Krugerrand]

I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

I would think some mechanical flashing device with mirrors and lenses could be candle lit and do the trick.

[AFPVet]

I would think some mechanical flashing device with mirrors and lenses could be candle lit and do the trick.

That's what they do around here. Some use really cool light setups and others use triangles....

[Rael]

I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.

[Vessol]

I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.

And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?

[HOLLYWOOD]

And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?

wait and see... you kinow first is JAIL and a close second is lien steal everything they own.

[Vessol]

wait and see... you kinow first is JAIL and a close second is lien steal everything they own.

And if you refuse or resist the agents of the State when they come to take you away in their paddywaggons?

You are either injured, or outright murdered. That's the penalty for resisting.

So effectively, supporting that 'harmless' little fine, is also sanctioning the use of violence and murder against someone..because they don't want to put a piece of $#@!ing orange flare on their damned buggy.

[Revolution9]

And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?

They do the time.

Bogus.

Rev9

[XNavyNuke]

I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.

I think it is an injustice. You certainly are free to dismiss them on the basis of their religion. The story however goes much deeper than the headline. I've been tracking this since 2008 and TPTB have been pursuing these folks since they were acquitted on a previous charge.

Amish on the rise across Kentucky

But in Barren County in south-central Kentucky -- home to Amish settlements since the 1980s -- Amish have been "well-received" and admired for their work ethic, said Circuit Judge Phillip Patton. He has known them since he represented a Swartzentruber man acquitted in court in 1985 for refusing to use the safety triangle.

"I've talked to building contractors who really like to employ them because they always show up for work and they don't seem to have the drug and alcohol issues that are sometimes a problem," Patton said.

XNN

[Revolution9]

I think it is an injustice. You certainly are free to dismiss them on the basis of their religion. The story however goes much deeper than the headline. I've been tracking this since 2008 and TPTB have been pursuing these folks since they were acquitted on a previous charge.

Amish on the rise across Kentucky



XNN

I am in North Georgia and get alot of Amish goods around here. Grass fed butter in big rolls, great cheese I can actually digest, a whole swath of pantry items like hot pickled garlic, fresh jams and pie fillings and old fashioned candy. They know how to eat good.

Rev9

[LibertyEagle]

I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.

We have freedom of religion in this country and bright colors run contrary to their religion.

It doesn't matter that you don't like the Amish or God. If you don't stand up for their rights, and everyone else's for that matter, there will be no one around to stand up for yours.

[Rael]

We have freedom of religion in this country and bright colors run contrary to their religion.

So what? If your religion calls for female circumcision I suppose we should allow that too.

Your rights for religious freedom end when they begin to violate the rights of others.

[A Son of Liberty]

So what? If your religion calls for female circumcision I suppose we should allow that too.

Your rights for religious freedom end when they begin to violate the rights of others.

What's your point? These folks aren't violating your rights by refusing to be strong-armed by the jack-boots.

[Revolution9]

So what? If your religion calls for female circumcision I suppose we should allow that too.

Your rights for religious freedom end when they begin to violate the rights of others.

Apparently the state religion mandates fire orange illuminati sigil amulets. No other warning will do. Reject their belief this makes you safe and you fall foul of their statute and must sit in a cell and are charged and they want current-see.. An electronic set-up or something else like time banditing based on circuits.. How religiously fundamental is that? They even have the ghawd in the batwing robe to do the dirty deed of acting at the altar of judgement and bringing punishment from on high..like they have the right to impersonate or speak in judgement for such..heh

Rev9

[XNavyNuke]

So what? If your religion calls for female circumcision I suppose we should allow that too.

Your rights for religious freedom end when they begin to violate the rights of others.

Admittedly, I am no legal scholar. I know where to find the "Right" to the free exercise of religion clause, I'm not aware of where to go look for the free exercise of motor vehicles. Indeed the State would have a much stronger legal position if they were to adopt statutory language to limit speed limits on rural highways to 10 miles per hour, as this would decrease collisions between automobiles and both farm equipment and buggies.

Red herring taste best pickled. Maybe horseback riders and bicyclists on rural roads should be required to display metalized reflective orange triangles of the same size too.

XNN

[Vessol]

So what? If your religion calls for female circumcision I suppose we should allow that too.

Your rights for religious freedom end when they begin to violate the rights of others.

Except that female(and male) circumcision is the initiation of force against someone else(in this case, removing a body part that does not grow back).

However, me driving a buggy without some orange crap on it is not violating the rights of others nor is it initiating force.

Essentially, this whole case takes the same logic as seat belt laws.

[XNavyNuke]

I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

In this case its about power and control as well as unquestioning adherence to the wording of the statute. Nothing but an "orange triangle" is acceptable to TPTB.

If it was about common sense, the judge would just let them use black reflective tape, like this made by 3M.

Motorcycle Reflective Tape Kit

XNN

[roho76]

I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

Slow down and use your headlights. There is no excuse for hitting anything with your car if you have control of it and the only way to loose control of your car is if it breaks and you loose control (which no orange sign can stop) or your driving irresponsibly (which no orange sign can stop). Either way orange signs do nothing except cost people time and money to maintain compliance.

[TexMac]

That's what a lot of them do, flashing lights sort of like a bicycle night light. Every now and then you come across one with nothing, though.

[AGRP]

I was thinking about this the other day:

Its quite interesting how were legally required to do certain things when driving such as use a turn signal when the golden rule is to be a "defensive driver." Using a turn signal is an offensive act.

[Romulus]

Why do they have to do anything.... driving anything assuming a risk...