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Thread: Amish Men Jailed After Refusing To Pay Fines For Not Installing Safety Signs On Buggies

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    Default Amish Men Jailed After Refusing To Pay Fines For Not Installing Safety Signs On Buggies

    (Reuters) - Eight members of a traditional Amish sect were behind bars on Tuesday after refusing to pay fines for failure to display orange-red safety triangles on their horse-drawn buggies.

    The eight were being held in the Graves County Jail, serving sentences ranging between three and 10 days for failing to pay the fines on religious grounds.

    Graves District Judge Deborah Hawkins ordered the men jailed Monday in Mayfield, about 200 miles from Louisville in western Kentucky. The defendants contend that paying the fines would amount to complying with a law that violates their religious restrictions against wearing or displaying bright colors or relying upon man-made symbols for their safety.

    Graves County Jailer Randy Haley said Tuesday that the men brought Bibles with them when they reported to jail late Monday night and were given dark-colored jumpsuits and sandals to wear instead of the standard orange coveralls. All were placed together in a large holding cell, Haley said.

    The Kentucky Court of Appeals denied an appeal of the men's misdemeanor convictions in June. The case has been appealed to the state Supreme Court, which has not ruled on whether it will hear the case.

    Dozens of Amish people and supporters were on hand as Hawkins handed down the sentences, which varied depending on the amount of unpaid fines and court costs. A ninth defendant was ordered to jail initially but the sentence was lifted when a friend paid so the man could care for an ailing son who has cerebral palsy.

    All of the defendants are members of a traditional Amish group known as the Old Order of Swartzentruber. Other Amish groups in Kentucky do comply with the requirements to display the safety signs on the rear of their buggies.

    "We're certainly disappointed that the judge chose to go forward," the men's lawyer, William Sharp, said in an interview Tuesday. "... We thought it was unnecessary to do so until the cases had been conclusively resolved one way or another by the Kentucky Supreme Court."

    Sharp, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union in Louisville, said he filed the appeal with the Supreme Court on June 30. Explaining her decision to go forward with the sentencing, Hawkins said she had 44 cases involving the same charge on her docket Monday.

    "It's time we move forward," she said.



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  3. #2

    Default Amish don't care for the color orange.

    Interesting fact: The Amish dislike the color orange.

    Recently, I saw a craft show that interviewed a woman who was an expert on amish quilts. For those who don't know, the amish quilting style is well known and admired for it's distinct style. It's often imitated by other quilters. She stated that a genuine Amish quilt will never include the color orange because they consider it too garish. So no orange safety signs or jumpsuits for them either.

    As this happened in Kentucky, I wonder if Rand will say anything in their defense?

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    Hmmmm.... What judge would do such a thing ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Interesting fact: The Amish dislike the color orange.
    Good to know. I have been trying to repel them with crosses and garlic, but it didn't seem to be effective.

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    A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.
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    I feel safer now.
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    I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.
    I would think some mechanical flashing device with mirrors and lenses could be candle lit and do the trick.

  11. #10

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    That's what a lot of them do, flashing lights sort of like a bicycle night light. Every now and then you come across one with nothing, though.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by limequat View Post
    A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.
    This.
    "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."-Étienne de La Boétie

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.
    I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.
    And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?
    "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."-Étienne de La Boétie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?
    wait and see... you kinow first is JAIL and a close second is lien steal everything they own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    wait and see... you kinow first is JAIL and a close second is lien steal everything they own.
    And if you refuse or resist the agents of the State when they come to take you away in their paddywaggons?

    You are either injured, or outright murdered. That's the penalty for resisting.

    So effectively, supporting that 'harmless' little fine, is also sanctioning the use of violence and murder against someone..because they don't want to put a piece of fucking orange flare on their damned buggy.
    "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."-Étienne de La Boétie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    And if you refuse or resist the agents of the State when they come to take you away in their paddywaggons?

    You are either injured, or outright murdered. That's the penalty for resisting.

    So effectively, supporting that 'harmless' little fine, is also sanctioning the use of violence and murder against someone..because they don't want to put a piece of fucking orange flare on their damned buggy.
    The insult... the people/taxpayers are stuck with the bills and costs for the state apparatus to continue it's tyranny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by limequat View Post
    A good example on how every law and ordinance comes down to the use of force.
    That is Universal. As above, so below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    And what happens to them if they refuse to pay the fine?
    They do the time.

    Bogus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    I'd like to know what their alternative proposal is. Speaking as a person who's almost hit a buggy at night in a snowstorm.
    In this case its about power and control as well as unquestioning adherence to the wording of the statute. Nothing but an "orange triangle" is acceptable to TPTB.

    If it was about common sense, the judge would just let them use black reflective tape, like this made by 3M.

    Motorcycle Reflective Tape Kit

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    Why do they have to do anything.... driving anything assuming a risk...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    I'm ok with them being fined. I don't think it's ok to create a dangerous situation just because your crazy religion does not like bright colors.
    I think it is an injustice. You certainly are free to dismiss them on the basis of their religion. The story however goes much deeper than the headline. I've been tracking this since 2008 and TPTB have been pursuing these folks since they were acquitted on a previous charge.

    Amish on the rise across Kentucky

    But in Barren County in south-central Kentucky -- home to Amish settlements since the 1980s -- Amish have been "well-received" and admired for their work ethic, said Circuit Judge Phillip Patton. He has known them since he represented a Swartzentruber man acquitted in court in 1985 for refusing to use the safety triangle.

    "I've talked to building contractors who really like to employ them because they always show up for work and they don't seem to have the drug and alcohol issues that are sometimes a problem," Patton said.
    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    Why do they have to do anything.... driving anything assuming a risk...
    Well, because you can't see them in their buggies. Have you driven in an area with lots of Amish/Mennonites? They will drive those black buggies and bicycles down the middle of the road in a snowstorm, keeping to the plowed area. Everyone watches out for them, but it would be a nightmare to hit one.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugerrand View Post
    I would think some mechanical flashing device with mirrors and lenses could be candle lit and do the trick.
    That's what they do around here. Some use really cool light setups and others use triangles....
    Last edited by AFPVet; 09-14-2011 at 07:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    I think it is an injustice. You certainly are free to dismiss them on the basis of their religion. The story however goes much deeper than the headline. I've been tracking this since 2008 and TPTB have been pursuing these folks since they were acquitted on a previous charge.

    Amish on the rise across Kentucky



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    I am in North Georgia and get alot of Amish goods around here. Grass fed butter in big rolls, great cheese I can actually digest, a whole swath of pantry items like hot pickled garlic, fresh jams and pie fillings and old fashioned candy. They know how to eat good.

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    Actually , we owe the Amish alot for bringing some things to light . In 1972 , three were fined $5 ea for not sending children to public school . The Wisconsin Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court overturned these convictions .In 1961 the IRS finally agreed that they did not have to pay into Social Security , this became law in 1965 .

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    Do slow moving vehicle emblems save lives ? I somehow doubt it . Where did the legislation originate ? Who stood to gain ?

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    Even the Amish are being treated like "criminals" now days.
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    anyone have any stats as to how many buggy/vehicle collisions there are a year???? LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    Even the Amish are being treated like "criminals" now days.
    When MYOB makes you a criminal, it is a real indicator of the state of things.
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    Just have them sign a paper that says if they are hit by a car, bus, truck, bike or train between the hours of 6 PM and 8 PM that they will not sue for damages and take personal responsibility from anything to getting a scratch off their bugie to paying for their funeral, if needed. Wouldn't that solve most of the issue?
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