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Thread: What do you think of Land Value Tax (LVT)

  1. #2011
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    I sure wish there were some RP supporters around where I live......alas....



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  3. #2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    I sure wish there were some RP supporters around where I live......alas....
    There's probably more than in Spain

  4. #2013
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    There's probably more than in Spain
    Yeah, although I haven't met any yet.....there are a few RP posters in scattered yards in Greencastle, IN (about 8 miles away)......but none around here. Maybe I should go there and knock on their door to talk to them...

  5. #2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    This is true. Consider Roy's favorite example: Hong Kong. The regime became so corrupt it necessitate the creation of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in 1974.
    Nope. Flat wrong. HK was and remains an island of clean government with only a single rival in all of East Asia: Singapore -- where the government not coincidentally aggressively nationalized land in the 1960s and now owns 70% of it. HK only became corrupt in the 50s, 60s and 70s because of the huge influx of refugees from the PRC, many of whom were already corrupt and found life too risky in the PRC, especially with the Cultural Revolution going on. And HK was also only corrupt by comparison with the standards of the UK, which has been one of the least corrupt countries in the world for centuries.

    But what has public ownership of land wrought in HK since then? Why, looka here: YOUR OWN SOURCE confirms that PUBLIC OWNERSHIP OF LAND has DEFEATED corruption, even despite the handover to the PRC in 1997:

    Transparency International now ranks Hong Kong among the least corrupt places in the world, ahead of countries like the United Kingdom, Japan, and the United States.

    This is an almost miraculous achievement against corruption, and it destroys you comprehensively, conclusively, utterly and permanently. Every time you try to slag LVT, you only prove you have to be grotesquely dishonest to do it.
    After this, this police and government made every attempt to overthrow the ICAC, and eventually did.
    Flat wrong.
    They required British intervention to even begin to get reforms going (the head of the ICAC answered to the British Prime Minister). (1)

    Daydreams of a "successful" LVT regime (if the end goal is true justice and maximum freedom) will always be just daydreams.
    Hong Kong proves you wrong, so you have to lie about it. Simple.

  6. #2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I agree, no one should have to pay to continue to own their land.
    But they should continue to pocket its publicly created value, paid for by other people's taxes? Uh-huh.

    Somehow, I kinda figured it'd be something like that...
    Abolish ALL property taxes, that includes LVT.
    As land and capital are legally property, that leaves taxes on... labor. What a shocker!

    Rarely has the argument for greed, privilege and injustice been articulated so baldly.
    Either that or be philosophically consistent and advocate an AVT (air value tax).
    As air is just a different kind of land (another natural resource men have a right to use, and need to use in order to live) I would advocate an air value tax... if air had any market value. Whereas if greedy, evil filth started privatizing the air, found a way to "homestead" it and fence it off, started charging you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of capitalism!

    Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of hammers?

  7. #2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Shoot, let's all get together and have a beer, maybe even have Roy join us...even heavenlyboy34 too
    I'll take you up on that if I'm in your neighborhood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  8. #2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy L View Post
    ...if greedy, evil filth started privatizing the air, found a way to "homestead" it and fence it off, started charging you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of capitalism!
    You mean as opposed to finding a way to "homestead" it, fence it ALL off on behalf of the state, which then forever charged you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of communism!

    Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of all hammers in existence?

  9. #2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy L View Post

    As air is just a different kind of land (another natural resource men have a right to use, and need to use in order to live) I would advocate an air value tax... if air had any market value. Whereas if greedy, evil filth started privatizing the air, found a way to "homestead" it and fence it off, started charging you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of capitalism!

    Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of hammers?
    Air is super abundant and its value is 0. Only air space is finite. Don't want a claim on airspace? Good luck defending yourself when foreigners decide to use your airspace to drop bombs on you.

    You don't want a claim on the air where you live? Okay, seal it off and I'll make sure to send all my various air pollution your way, and throw in some mustard gas for good measure. Enjoy your air!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  10. #2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    You mean as opposed to finding a way to "homestead" it, fence it ALL off on behalf of the state, which then forever charged you rent for air to breathe, then you would feel blessed by the joys of communism!
    If you were the stupidest person on earth, you still would not be so stupid that you wouldn't know:

    1) Government in fact ALREADY DOES administer use of air so that the rights of all to breathe it are secured, and
    2) Not being evil, greedy filth as private airlords would indisputably be, it in fact doesn't charge anyone any rent for air to breathe.

    So, stupidity cannot be the cause of your absurd, fallacious and grotesque nonsense. Only dishonesty can produce such completely outrageous garbage.

    Don't you understand what it means when I always prove your "arguments" are stupid, fallacious, absurd, dishonest, and stupid?
    Now, don't you feel as stupid as a bag of all hammers in existence?
    No, right about now I am feeling infinitely more intelligent, as well as infinitely more knowledgeable and honest, than you.

  11. #2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Air is super abundant and its value is 0. Only air space is finite. Don't want a claim on airspace?
    Airspace is land. So I do want a claim on it: the liberty right to use it.
    Good luck defending yourself when foreigners decide to use your airspace to drop bombs on you.
    What are you blathering about?
    You don't want a claim on the air where you live?
    Oh, learn how to read. Or think. I already have a claim on it: my rights to life and liberty.
    Okay, seal it off and I'll make sure to send all my various air pollution your way, and throw in some mustard gas for good measure. Enjoy your air!
    Try not to confess your evil quite so blatantly.

  12. #2021

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy L View Post
    If you were the stupidest person on earth, you still would not be so stupid that you wouldn't know:

    1) Government in fact ALREADY DOES administer use of air so that the rights of all to breathe it are secured, and
    2) Not being evil, greedy filth as private airlords would indisputably be, it in fact doesn't charge anyone any rent for air to breathe.

    So, stupidity cannot be the cause of your absurd, fallacious and grotesque nonsense. Only dishonesty can produce such completely outrageous garbage.

    Don't you understand what it means when I always prove your "arguments" are stupid, fallacious, absurd, dishonest, and stupid?

    No, right about now I am feeling infinitely more intelligent, as well as infinitely more knowledgeable and honest, than you.
    1) Government does not "administer use of air". That's silliness on your part, like a Saint Bernard bitch who winces from a flea bite and you, the chihuahua on the stool that is humping her from behind, says, "Oh, I'm sorry, did I hurt you honey?" Government attempts to govern and regulate localized air usage (factories, autos, etc.,), but it does not, and cannot, collectivize the air, nor does it "administer use of air". That's upside down and backwards crank talk right there.

    2) Merely saying thing like, "...evil, greedy filth...private...stupidity...absurd, fallacious and grotesque nonsense...dishonesty...completely outrageous garbage...stupid, fallacious, absurd, dishonest, and stupid..." is evidence to me of nausea and stomach pains on your part, but it does not make you "...infinitely more intelligent, as well as infinitely more knowledgeable and honest..." Then again, you didn't claim that, did you? You said it had you ""right now feeling" that way. I don't think that's true, but it is at least consistent with all your prior delusions of intelligence and honesty.
    Last edited by Steven Douglas; 03-14-2012 at 06:11 AM.

  13. #2022

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    1) Government does not "administer use of air".
    It most certainly and indisputably does, stop lying.
    That's silliness on your part,
    It is obvious fact, and you are just lying.
    Government attempts to govern and regulate localized air usage (factories, autos, etc.,), but it does not, and cannot, collectivize the air,
    Nice attempt to change the subject.
    nor does it "administer use of air".
    You are indisputably wrong. As usual. EPA standards, auto emission standards, carbon taxes, acid rain sulfur limits, etc. are all manifestations of government administration of use of air.
    That's upside down and backwards crank talk right there.
    That's stupid, empty garbage right there.

  14. #2023

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Actually, it would legitimize them, making it incredibly easy for them to operate, and on the grandest scale imaginable. LVT would do for land what the Fed did for currency. Instead of Mafia, you just say "State". Oh, and just like the Mafia, they'll know which palms to grease, what needs to be "given back" to key parts of da community. No free lunch, you don't slop from the public trough without making sure that enough voting little piggies get their turn at all that "reclaimed" wealth. And most can be bought for a song.
    Here's more proof just how wrong you always have to be when you stupidly and dishonestly slag LVT:

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-39...m-private-jail

  15. #2024
    Member helmuth_hubener's Avatar
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    Default Table of Contents

    Table of Contents

    Directory to what I feel were my most substantive contributions in this thread.

    Some Criticism:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3577112


    What is Property?:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585601


    A Right is a Boundary:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585708


    Use and control is what ownership *is*:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3782367


    LVT Makes the State the Land-Owner:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3908042
    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3913177
    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4021701



    Regarding land ownership being inherently monopolistic, due to non-homogeneity of land:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3585760
    And more about land being homogeneous/heterogenous, and also about the supply of land being fixed:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3630122
    And more:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3632718
    And more:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3634017
    And more:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3639251


    Explaining yet again, this time with ASCII graphics, that the transfer of money does not negate injustice:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3587263
    Explaining it yet again, this time with song:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3588236

    Does everyone have a rightful claim to the universe, or does no one:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...40#post3621340
    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...25#post3623925
    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3627987


    Regarding the land-owner's productive function as ultimate decision-maker:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3676602
    Land-owner as ultimate decision-maker -- explaining the concept of delegation:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3695459
    Mr. L. thinks the owners of car rental businesses do not control nor use their cars:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790254
    So I explain it again:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790976


    Renting just is not that bad:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3685284


    Rothbardianism is so awesome, even the crazy Georgists can have their way under it and we can all live in harmony:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3693178


    A couple fundamental disagreements between Georgists and us (Or, A Last Hurrah at Attempting to Communicate With a Turing Program):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3694703


    Will land will be used better if there is a Land Value Tax? (Bringing in North Dakota to the discussion):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3696912


    Further elaboration on the Double-Whammy:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3753562


    Land-owners also are productive by lowering society's average time preference; If LVT, why not CVT?:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3698271


    Grab-bag (No homesteading = no property; power to the state to smash land-owners will back-fire; more taxed =/= more efficient):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3718319


    Again Concerning Public Choice and Plans Back-firing:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4007650


    More Public Choice Common Sense vs. Savior-State Naivety:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...81#post4105181


    Grab-bag (How does the newborn get a right rather than the homesteader; Homesteading is a transformation, and the result is a product of labor; wild animals as land):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3676489


    Grab-bag (more detail on production is transformation using parking lot and chainsaw; feudalism rocks; just who's initiating force?; which is it, everyone or no one?):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3734355


    CVT and LVT parallels (Factory vs. Land parallels; abandoned products of labor don't disappear):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3741002


    Land Taxation causes economic destruction:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3741684


    Regarding whether rationing resources is murder:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3586982


    Property Rights: the Great Problem Solver:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3742768
    Continued: The State: the Great Destroyer:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3745338


    Grab-bag to MattButler:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3744412


    The *only* thing that's holy, the *only* thing that's land, is locations on the Earth's surface:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3748437


    You Could Own a Whole Planet, But You'd Have Calculation Problems:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3759398
    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3785571


    Hong Kong!:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3782319
    Hong Kong! addendum:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3790884


    Manners and Mutual Respect (respecting that it's not for sale) vs. LVT Covetousness:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3792359


    Knowledge or Wanting: Which one creates the initiation of Force?:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3792458


    Cantillon (Land Barony is A-OK!):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3793697


    An Instance of the Impossible -- Legitimately Homesteaded Land:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4114906


    Four of My Idiotic Howlers:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3757325


    Nature is not a Vending Machine!:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3919973



    George wanted to nationalize land:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4015769

    Continued:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4021482



    Georgism Wrong on Value-Imputation:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4116328



    The Question:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3793722
    Download hundreds of Ron Paul songs: by Torrent or Dropbox

  16. #2025
    Member bxm042's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahkato View Post
    What do you think of Land Value Tax
    Fuck that

    /thread
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

  17. #2026

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Fuck that

    /thread
    ...obviously not having read the thread, and knowing nothing about land value tax, but seeing the word, "tax" and reacting with a knee-jerk reflex...

    Like all who refuse to think about this issue, you deserve your society's fate.

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