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Thread: What do you think of Land Value Tax (LVT)

  1. #1901

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    Johannesburg, South Africa has no tax on buildings. The entire property tax is on land. Mason Gaffney, a highly respected land economist and Professor of Economics at UC Riverside, visited Johannesburg. This is what he said about it.

    "The miracle of Johannesburg: Jo-burg is a Bootstrap City. It should have died when its gold mines played out, like a proper mining boomtown; instead it remains as the economic capital of its nation and half a continent."Johannesburg defies most laws of urban economics, e.g. that mines create no great cities. Explainers still site the mines, but its mines have played out; it should now be a ghost town. It has no harbor, no water transportation, nor even any gravity water supply. It is, in fact, on a ridge top, the Rand or "reef," at an elevation of 5,000 ft. Unlike Chicago or Boston, it has no sunburst of rail lines, except perhaps what it has attracted itself. It is "on the main rail line," Explainers say, but so are 1000 miles of other sites. The natural site lacks outstanding amenities, and certainly can't hold a candle to Cape Town. Jo-burg has no governmental economic base. Surrounding farmland is poor.

    Why Johannesburg? Why is it the largest city, the center of finance, industry, commerce, and international air travel? As a public finance economist I may overvalue incentive taxation, but Jo-burg has it. The property tax is on site value only, and at a high rate: they tell me it is 4%. This is what makes Jo-burg distinctive. Challenge and response: Jo-burg had to do something right in order to survive, and that is what it did. It not only survived, it became and remains Number One. Give me a better explanation and I'll back off. I haven't heard one yet."

    Unhappily, the ANC forced Jo-Burg, against its will, to drop taxation on land values (1918 to 1996). The city is now mired in disinvestment and unemployment. Similar situations occurred in Pittsburgh (Land Value Tax (LVT) dropped in 1990), NYC (LVT was dropped in the late 1930s) and declined until WW2 brought full employment.

    However these examples do show the stark difference of the before and after. But the detractors will no doubt blame the transition from apartite and the world slumps (2008 and the 1930s) but not the real reason for the decline - the removal of LVT.

    Mason's observations are spot on. Jo-Burg is in a God forsaken part of South Africa and had no right to be the economic super-city for all Southern Africa below the equator. Nothing was going for it at all. It comes across as an artificial creation I suppose like Brasilia. Mason hit the nail on the head in defining the success of this anomaly. Land Value Tax (LVT) can makes cities prosper where they have no right to.

    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-09-2012 at 05:22 PM.


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  3. #1902
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    Hmmmm...I think Roy has a sock puppet account

  4. #1903

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    Geonomics is an economic philosophy and ideology that holds that people own what they create, but that things found in nature, most importantly land, belong equally to all.

    Land Value Taxation does not tax the land you occupy. Community created economic growth soaks into the land and crystalizes as land values - that is where land values come from. This is economics, not an opinion. Land Value Tax merely reclaims that growth and puts it back into the cycle to fund the infrastructure that aided the creation in the first place. Currently the cycle is cut and a giant sluice is inserted taking away that wealth in the form of windfalls in the land market - socially created wealth is privatized. It needs to be 180 degrees the other the way around. LVT reclaims community created wealth to pay for community services.

    Many Geoists observe two prime negative points of current taxation in modern states:
    • Privately created wealth is socialized - via Income Tax, sales tax, etc.
    • Socially created wealth is privatized - community created land values are extracted by individuals and organizations.
    The Geoists rightly argue the opposite should be the case in that a Single Tax using only Land Value Tax will:
    • Socialize socially created wealth - socially created land values are taxed and used for community revenues.
    • Privatize privately created wealth - no Income Tax is levied, hence people keep the fruits of their labor.
    Geoists view the Single Tax (no Income Tax, tax on buildings, sales tax, etc) as only using socially created wealth to fund social and state services, with an individual retaining 100% the fruits of their labor. This appeals to many across the political spectrum.
    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-09-2012 at 07:13 PM.

  5. #1904

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Hmmmm...I think Roy has a sock puppet account
    No he doesn't. What don't you understand?

  6. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Hmmmm...I think Roy has a sock puppet account
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    No he doesn't. What don't you understand?

  7. #1906

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Hmmmm...I think Roy has a sock puppet account
    We'll find out if he's the real McCoy if JohnLVT starts calling everyone cretinous liars.
    "What is wrong with the golden rule applied to foreign policy? We don't need to have a really complicated philosophy, other than the fact that we shouldn't initiate force."

    -Ron Paul, 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    We'll find out if he's the real McCoy if JohnLVT starts calling everyone cretinous liars.
    He doesn't need to, we've already proven we are.

  9. #1908

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I don't like a tax where if unpaid, they can take your land.
    What happens when you do not pay the existing property taxes? Do the authorities leave you alone? No they go and get that money and if that means getting your home they will do that as well. Land Value Tax will have exemptions for the elderly, etc.

  10. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    What happens when you do not pay the existing property taxes? Do the authorities leave you alone? No they go and get that money and if that means getting your home they will do that as well. Land Value Tax will have exemptions for the elderly, etc.
    Wouldn't it be easier (and more fair) just to have absolutely no taxes on property?

  11. #1910

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Wouldn't it be easier (and more fair) just to have absolutely no taxes on property?
    Yes, if the property is the bricks and wood, the building (the CAPITAL). The land (LAND & RESOURCES) is separate. LVT reclaims community created wealth that soaked into the land. Value the landowner never created as the community did. The building depreciates in value like a car. The Land appreciates as it is inelastic.

    LVT is easy to collect, as land's location is known to the inch. It cannot be taken off-shore. So an Athens mansion would have to pay the tax. LVT is very cheap to collect.

    LVT is known as the Single Tax. Only one tax, no enterprise killing Income Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, etc). LVT is a misnomer it is really a site reclaim levy.
    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-09-2012 at 06:15 PM.

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