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Thread: Has a sitting President ever been impeached and sent to prison?

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    Question Has a sitting President ever been impeached and sent to prison?

    Has any sitting President in US history ever been impeached and sent to prison for any grave crimes?


    General question, not referring to charges being made against current President.



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    Has any sitting President in US history ever been impeached and sent to prison for any grave crimes?


    General question, not referring to charges being made against current President.
    Impeachment has come up, but never prison. As far as I know.

    Several should have been,,,

    Epilogue

    I finally understood the true meaning of the Franklin case one night in early 1996. Watching television and skipping through the channels, I came upon the movie Billy Budd. Instantly I zeroed in on this movie, and my heart, rather than the channels, started skipping.

    By the time the movie ended, the Franklin cover-up made sense. Alisha Owen's imprisonment for telling the truth made sense. The protection of the perpetrators by our highest public officials, finally made sense. I understood, also, why it was necessary to discredit me, John DeCamp, and to kill Gary Caradori, with his eight-year-old son. Any nagging doubts I may have had about any aspects of Paul Bonacci's charges were laid to rest. And it was clear to me, at last, that public officials at all levels knew Paul was telling the truth, as they set out to destroy him.

    Where did the blinding revelation come from? Let me go back a few months, to my last attempt to get a new trial for Alisha Owen. At that hearing, Troy Boner, who had originally told Gary Caradori the truth, and who had been forced to recant, was preparing to testify - to tell the truth as you read it in his affidavit in Chapter 21. Troy Boner was going to provide the information in open court, under oath, that would blow the lid off the Franklin case and force a new trial for Alisha Owen.

    As Troy came into the courthouse, he was immediately ushered into a private room by county judicial authorities. He was advised that a "Special Attorney" had been appointed to protect him. For approximately one hour, while the hearing was delayed, Troy was cornered in a room with this "Special Attorney" and with other officials from the prosecutor's office, the very same prosecutorial team Troy was about to testify against.

    When Troy came out of the meeting, I knew he was broken, his morale smashed. His head hung down. He could not, or would not look at anyone.

    As I approached Troy, his new court-appointed attorney tried to step between us. With probably the last ounce of courage he could muster, Troy leaned over and whispered to me, "Oh God, forgive me. They guaranteed if I talk here today, they will put me away for twenty years. Guaranteed I would never see the light of day again. Told me that I would be charged with perjury for my original testimony, if I opened my mouth today in court. Don't ~all me up there. I can't survive in prison. I know they can put me there. Look what they did to Alisha. Look what they did to my brother. I've got no choice. They told me I had to take the Fifth Amendment and refuse to testify. Otherwise, they promised I would be taken directly from court to jail"

    We all proceeded into the court room, where I called Troy to the stand. I showed Troy his affidavit. He hung his head, and when I asked my first question, "Would you please state your name?" Troy responded, "I take the Fifth Amendment," an answer he repeated, in a barely audible voice, to all my other questions.
    It was hopeless. I ceased my questioning, and shortly thereafter the hearing ended.

    I walked back to the judge's chambers to clear up any final details. Judge Enbody had been specially appointed by the Nebraska State Supreme Court to this hearing, which I had won from the Supreme Court based on Troy's new information. (The next day I learned that he had been appointed to the Court of Appeals-a very substantial advancement in his career.)

    Sitting in Judge Enbody's chambers, with my head hung so low it was hitting my shoestrings, I was given the key to unlock the meaning of Franklin. "I do not understand it, Your Honor," I kept repeating. "As God is my witness, I do not think that there is a judge or other person involved in this case who does not know that horrible injustice has been done. Everybody knows that Alisha Owen is telling the truth and that she is being punished for it. And, Your Honor, a person has to be deaf, dumb, blind, and totally dishonest, not to know that some of this state's and nation's top businessmen and public officials have engaged in the worst crimes possible, which are now being covered up. And these kids, instead of being honored and protected for exposing these things, are being sent to prison. Why? Why? Why?"

    Judge Enbody looked at me. Slowly, his voice shaking, he began to talk.

    "I am just a man. I am not a god. I wish I were. I have no choice in what I have done. I am just a man, just a man, not a god. I am doing what I must do with the evidence before me," Judge Enbody concluded. He appeared even more shaken and upset than I was.

    I shook my head. "I don't understand. I just don't understand," I kept repeating. "Everybody knows what is happening, but nobody is willing to do anything about it. Why? Why?!!" Judge Enbody looked at me and said, very slowly, "If you want to understand the entire Franklin case, I can help you. Go read 'Billy Budd.' Read 'Billy Budd.' If you will do that, John, and if you understand the book, then you will understand the what and why of Franklin, and why it can be no other way. I do not say you will like it. I do not say you will agree with it. But at least you will understand it. That, I promise you. Go read 'Billy Budd'."

    Those were the last words I spoke with the Judge on the case. I left his chambers, burnt out, but angry. And I forgot all about Billy Budd, until the night I happened upon the movie. The story of Billy Budd is set in the British Navy near the end of the eighteenth century. Billy was a young sailor, who, although impressed into the British Navy, bore no ill will to the authorities for having dragooned him; indeed, he was the very picture of innocence and good-will, and was almost universally loved aboard his war-ship. One officer, however, developed an insane jealousy of Billy, and set out to frame him up for allegedly inciting mutiny. Since there had been several notorious mutinies in the British fleet at the time, the mere whisper of "mutiny" was enough to spread panic among the ship's officers.

    To make a long story short, because of certain incriminating appearances in the case, the captain and his senior officers, although they knew Billy was innocent of all charges, nonetheless sentenced him to hang, a necessity - as they viewed it - to "save the system," not just on their own ship, but in the British fleet as a whole.

    Now I think I do understand the Franklin case. I know, now, that all the public officials involved in Franklin-whether they ever heard of Billy Budd or not-fully understood what they were doing.

    And what they all have done, and will continue to do in this case, Franklin, and no doubt many others like it, is this: Protect the "system" at all costs. The "system" is the only ultimate sacred cow-not any particular law or constitution, but only "the system." Because, ultimately, it is the system which makes certain that the individuals functioning within it - from judges to lawyers, to prosecutors, to politicians, to businessmen - have their places and positions, and opportunities and pecking order, and future.

    And, though it is unfortunate, that on occasion the protection of the "system" requires the deliberate sacrifice of perfectly innocent people, that is hoped overall to be the exception rather than the rule. But without the "system" . .

    So, Judge Enbody, now I understand. And, as you said, I may not agree, but I do understand.

    But then I have one final, nagging question. How do I know when, or if, the "system" itself has become so corrupted, that evil is the rule, rather than the exception? And when that occurs, what do I do about it? But I think I know the answer to that one - my oId commanding officer in Vietnam told me what I had to do. I made some promises to Bill, and I intend to keep them.

    John DeCamp
    A good study to understand politics in America.
    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/frank...pexcerpt.shtml
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Thanks , pretty informative material in quick read. Will read through it.


    My belief is that no one is above the law and was wondering how holders of high offices who did major wrongs have been held accountable so far in our history.

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    The U.S. Constitution needs to change. Presidents should not have the ability to pardon other representatives or anyone on their cabinet including themselves.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Impeachment has come up, but never prison. As far as I know.

    Several should have been,,,



    A good study to understand politics in America.
    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/frank...pexcerpt.shtml
    Wow mind=blown

    I just did a few minutes of googling and surprisingly the wikipedia page is rather small, in fact its incredibly small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordillo View Post
    Wow mind=blown

    I just did a few minutes of googling and surprisingly the wikipedia page is rather small, in fact its incredibly small.
    It was fairly well covered up. There is much, but you have to search for it.
    It went well beyond the few convicted.

    And to believe it ended is purely fantasy.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Well, I don't know much about history, but I can say that I believe that the killing of all those innocent children and innocent people in Libya (and all the other countries we occupy) deserves a death sentence.
    Support Ben Swann HERE

  10. #9

    Default there is another.......

    of course the Wiki answered your question for US presidents, but there was an American president, Jefferson Davis, that was arrested by a foreign country (US) and held for two years in prison. He was released because those that held him that wanted to try him for treason, knew they would lose in court if they tried it and they did not want the issues to be exposed as they would have been in a trial.
    proof of explosives in WTC on 9/11 .....
    peer-reviewed paper in scientific journal - unreacted flakes of Thermite found in WTC dust!
    http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/ar...002/7TOCPJ.pdf
    videos:
    Entire Steven E Jones presentation at PNAC event in UT, Austin, Texas
    video:
    PNAC Rebuilding America's Senses Steven Jones Lecture


    architects and engineers for 9/11 truth
    http://www.ae911truth.org/

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    technically jefferson davis did not face an impeachment procedure by the confederate legislature.
    he was in a union prison due to his treason against the union. did the feud between stanton and our
    17th potus basically result in a lack of a trial for mr. davis? nixon avoided a senate trial by resigning
    and part of the deal was ford's infamous pardon. andy johnson was put on trial because of his pardons.
    Last edited by Aratus; 09-03-2011 at 02:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordillo View Post
    Wow mind=blown

    I just did a few minutes of googling and surprisingly the wikipedia page is rather small, in fact its incredibly small.
    Probably because it was found to be a hoax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    Probably because it was found to be a hoax.
    Any proof to back that up?

    http://www.franklincase.org/index.ph...cles&Itemid=14
    http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_...p/franklin.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyrYePP9I4s
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Omaha Tales of Sexual Abuse Ruled False
    AP
    Published: September 27, 1990

    A Federal grand jury concluded today that stories of sexual abuse and drug trafficking that swept this city and the state capital after the failure of a credit union here were unfounded.

    The grand jury indicted Alisha Owen, a 21-year-old woman who had told a legislative committee that she was a victim of sexual abuse. She is charged with eight counts of perjury.

    Shortly after the failure of the Franklin Community Credit Union in November 1988, there were widespread allegations, repeated by legislative leaders, that money from the union had been used to finance child prostitution.

    The same grand jury last year indicted Lawrence E. King Jr., a prominent Republican who was manager of the credit union, on 40 counts of conspiracy, fraud and filing false tax returns in connection with the failure of the institution in November.

    The Federal grand jury today indicted an officer of the credit union, Sandra Prucha, charging that she used expense vouchers to obtain cash and credit, then used the cash and credit for her personal use.

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    In other news:


    Obama Admin Reworked Solyndra Loan to Favor Donor

    By JACK GILLUM and MATTHEW DALY Associated Press
    WASHINGTON September 16, 2011 (AP)


    The Obama administration restructured a half-billion dollar federal loan to a troubled solar energy company in such a way that private investors — including a fundraiser for President Barack Obama — moved ahead of taxpayers for repayment in case of a default, government records show.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...fects-14533295

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    moderatelibertarian (may I call you oxymoron for short?):

    Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached. Neither was removed from office as a result. What does that mean? Impeachment is like indictment and removal is like conviction, or in other words, both men were acquitted.

    Apparently Nixon didn't have any faith that he would be acquitted of his impending impeachment, as he quit. He was probably right.

    No president may be sent to prison. An ex president may be sent to prison. This, however, has not happened. Nixon was pardoned preemptively, so there was no point in pursuing charges against him.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Maynard Keynes
    In the long run we're all dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge
    The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    In an insane world, crazy is the new sane.

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    No president may be sent to prison. An ex president may be sent to prison. This, however, has not happened. Nixon was pardoned preemptively, so there was no point in pursuing charges against him.
    acptulsa. that sort of clarifies things. I guess a sitting president will first have to be made "ex president" via impeachment and then be sent to prison if he commits grave crimes worthy of such punishments.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    acptulsa. that sort of clarifies things. I guess a sitting president will first have to be made "ex president" via impeachment and then be sent to prison if he commits grave crimes worthy of such punishments.
    Precisely correct, sir. The Constitution was set up that way to prevent a party which gains appeal to effectively overturn an election by placing the sitting president of the other party in a jail cell from which he cannot govern.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Maynard Keynes
    In the long run we're all dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge
    The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    In an insane world, crazy is the new sane.

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    never in the USA, but it has happened in both S Korea, and Taiwan. there is time to impeach Obama, but he may resign with a Biden pardon following soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    moderatelibertarian (may I call you oxymoron for short?):

    Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached. Neither was removed from office as a result. What does that mean? Impeachment is like indictment and removal is like conviction, or in other words, both men were acquitted.

    Apparently Nixon didn't have any faith that he would be acquitted of his impending impeachment, as he quit. He was probably right.

    No president may be sent to prison. An ex president may be sent to prison. This, however, has not happened. Nixon was pardoned preemptively, so there was no point in pursuing charges against him.
    Yep

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    You don't go to prison when you are impeached. You also don't go to prison when you are removed from office. However, you can be tried in court and go to prison after.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 09-23-2011 at 10:05 AM.


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    Wow, I thought everyone knew that only two presidents have been impeached, and none have ever been removed from office, let alone jail. Jeez.

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    It's clear now but I really only knew of Clinton impeachment. After reading news of our expensive puppet and Egyptian President going almost overnight from Presidency to behind a cage, I got to wonder.

    Egyptian President


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    "If the president does it, then it is not illegal"

    The pardon proved him right.
    “Texas is a state of mind. Texas is an obsession. Above all, Texas is a nation in every sense of the word. And there’s an opening convey of generalities. A Texan outside of Texas is a foreigner. ”

    —John Steinbeck

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexanRudeBoy View Post
    "If the president does it, then it is not illegal"

    The pardon proved him right.
    Does not seem just though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    Well, I don't know much about history, but I can say that I believe that the killing of all those innocent children and innocent people in Libya (and all the other countries we occupy) deserves a death sentence.
    Killing of any innocent people anywhere deserves that justice.

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    Is Obama impeachment gaining traction:


    Ron Paul Says Obama Impeachment Possible Over al-Awlaki Drone AttackOlogy - 15 hours ago

    Even Ralph Nader is Calling for an Obama ImpeachmentHuffington Post (blog) - 4 days ago

    Michele Bachmann of Minnesota on Wednesday called for President Obama's impeachment.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-re..._b_989140.html

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zap! View Post
    Wow, I thought everyone knew that only two presidents have been impeached, and none have ever been removed from office, let alone jail. Jeez.
    Yeah... sigh!
    And the answer to the OP is NO!

    Andrew Johnson & Bill Clinton were impeached by the house. Neither were found guilty by the senate. Nixon was not impeached, he resigned and was pardoned by Ford. Andrew Jackson was censured by the senate (largely for his efforts against the central bank... sound familiar?)... and fought it vehemently and it was later expunged.

    I really recommend people stop using wikedpedia as an authoritative source for information... it is full of errors



    Also... the president cannot pardon himself or any other government official who has been impeached. It is specifically prohibited in the Constitution. This goes into effect once the person in question is impeached... it does not require a finding (verdict) by the senate. Essentially, the impeachment is an indictment and the trial is held in the senate and presided over by the chief justice of the SCOTUS.

    Further, the finding of the senate is final. No pardon or appeals are available in such a situation. It also means that no pardon would be available... even if a sympathetic VP were to replace the president and wish to pardon him. Constitutionally, this is not allowed. Again, this would be true of any official who has been impeached... no pardon would be available.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 10-05-2011 at 01:53 AM.

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    ^ that's why the bipartisan deal was cut with jerry ford by august of 1974 ^

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