Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Bachmann falsely claimed to be a PHD

  1. #1

    Bachmann falsely claimed to be a PHD

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...not-doctor-phd

    Michele Bachmann Is Not a Doctor

    Thu Aug. 18, 2011 3:00 AM PDT
    On the campaign trail in Iowa, Rep. Michele Bachmann's response to the argument that she lacks the experience to run for president has been to turn the argument on its head. The Minnesota congresswoman rattles off her resume: She was a federal tax litigation attorney; she and her husband started "a successful small company"; she fought the establishment in the state Legislature and Congress.

    And one more thing: Lest you think she doesn't have the brains to do battle with Obama, she rattles off her degrees. "I'm not only a lawyer, I have a postdoctorate degree in federal tax law from William and Mary," she told Fox News' Chris Wallace in June. "I work in serious scholarship."

    But there was one résumé item that was missing: a Ph.D. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when Bachmann traveled the state as an education activist, she went by "Dr. Michele Bachmann," even though she had never obtained nor sought the advanced degree that's a prerequisite for the title.

    From 1998 through 2003, Bachmann was a leading opponent of a Minnesota curriculum standard called the Profile of Learning. She and her allies believed that it was leading Minnesota toward a state-planned economy; if we weren't careful, totalitarianism (or worse) could be just around the corner. "Government is implementing policies that will lead to poverty, not prosperity, by adopting the failed ideas of a state-planned and managed economy similar to that of the former Soviet Union," she explained in a policy paper she cowrote for an anti-Profile nonprofit called the Maple River Education Coalition (MREC). "The system is based upon a utilitarian worldview that measures human value only in terms of productive capability for the 'best interests of the state.'"

    Along with a local education activist named Michael Chapman, she toured the state and the nation to drum up opposition to state and federal education standards. And according to eyewitness accounts and material put out by the group, she picked up an advanced degree along the way.

    Mary Cecconi, a Minnesota education lobbyist who handed Bachmann her only defeat in a 1999 Stillwater school board race, recalls seeing the future presidential candidate speak at an area church shortly after that election. "Chapman was supposed to be the headliner, but there was no question that she was the star," she said. "He was supposed to be the researcher. She was supposed to be the one who focused on the legal aspect—actually that was the first time I'd ever heard someone with a J.D. called a 'doctor.'" Bachmann's 2002 anti-Profile film, Guinea Pig Kids, likewise twice identified the then-state senator as "Dr. Michele Bachmann."

    And in 2000, when Bachmann knocked off incumbent GOP state Sen. Gary Laidig at the district nominating convention, the MREC fired off a news release repeatedly invoking their candidate's honorarium. "On the first ballot, Dr. Michele Bachmann was endorsed 62% to Laidig's 38%," it read. "Dr. Bachmann herself, who arrived at her convention with no intention of running, was shocked by her victory." (The narrative, promoted by the congresswoman, that she was an unlikely candidate is false—Bachmann had announced her candidacy months earlier and laid the groundwork for the upset by stacking the convention with anti-Profile activists.)

    "Dr. Bachmann" might have given the activist a bit more gravitas, but it was not an appropriate title. Bachmann received a J.D.—the standard law school degree—from Oral Roberts University, and an LL.M. in tax law from William & Mary in 1988. The LL.M. does count as a postdoctoral degree, as Bachmann says, because it came after she had received a "terminal degree"—that is, a degree that can't be directly improved upon. But while J.D. (juris doctor) has the word "doctor" in it, it is not accepted practice for J.D.'s to refer to themselves as "Dr."

    For basic law school graduates like Bachmann, "'Esquire' is the preferred term," says James Warren, an assistant in the dean's office at UCLA Law School. Nor does doing postdoctoral research bring with it any extra titles. "It's not like you've received another degree—it's like a fellowship," explains Zoe Fonseca-Kelly, chair of the board of directors of the National Postdoctoral Association. Rather, postdocs revert to whatever degree they had previously earned once they've finished their research.

    This isn't the only instance of Bachmann exaggerating her résumé. She continues to call herself a "tax attorney" or "tax litigation attorney" even though, according to the state of Minnesota, she is not currently authorized to practice law in the state. In an effort to prove her bipartisan appeal, she has stated that Minnesota Democrats squeezed her out of her old Senate district and put her in a new, liberal-leaning one—but the districts were drawn up by the courts, and her new district actually leaned red.

    On occasion, she has also stretched the truth about her foster children (she had 23) to make a political point. In a 2008 interview with Politico, she noted that she was feeling the squeeze from high gas prices because she has such a large family. "Energy will be the big focus right now," she said. "Every weekend now when I go home, I will go to the grocery store, I'll buy food for the family. We have five kids and 23 foster kids that we raise. So I go to the grocery store and buy a lot of food." The catch? She didn't have any foster children in 2008; her permit to take in foster children had expired in 2000 and she had taken in her last child, a teenage girl, in 1998.

    Bachmann's campaign did not respond to a request for comment.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

  4. #3
    Supporting Member
    Michigan



    Blog Entries
    1
    Posts
    3,005
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...not-doctor-phd

    Michele Bachmann Is Not a Doctor

    Thu Aug. 18, 2011 3:00 AM PDT
    On the campaign trail in Iowa, Rep. Michele Bachmann's response to the argument that she lacks the experience to run for president has been to turn the argument on its head. The Minnesota congresswoman rattles off her resume: She was a federal tax litigation attorney; she and her husband started "a successful small company"; she fought the establishment in the state Legislature and Congress.

    And one more thing: Lest you think she doesn't have the brains to do battle with Obama, she rattles off her degrees. "I'm not only a lawyer, I have a postdoctorate degree in federal tax law from William and Mary," she told Fox News' Chris Wallace in June. "I work in serious scholarship."

    But there was one résumé item that was missing: a Ph.D. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when Bachmann traveled the state as an education activist, she went by "Dr. Michele Bachmann," even though she had never obtained nor sought the advanced degree that's a prerequisite for the title.

    From 1998 through 2003, Bachmann was a leading opponent of a Minnesota curriculum standard called the Profile of Learning. She and her allies believed that it was leading Minnesota toward a state-planned economy; if we weren't careful, totalitarianism (or worse) could be just around the corner. "Government is implementing policies that will lead to poverty, not prosperity, by adopting the failed ideas of a state-planned and managed economy similar to that of the former Soviet Union," she explained in a policy paper she cowrote for an anti-Profile nonprofit called the Maple River Education Coalition (MREC). "The system is based upon a utilitarian worldview that measures human value only in terms of productive capability for the 'best interests of the state.'"

    Along with a local education activist named Michael Chapman, she toured the state and the nation to drum up opposition to state and federal education standards. And according to eyewitness accounts and material put out by the group, she picked up an advanced degree along the way.

    Mary Cecconi, a Minnesota education lobbyist who handed Bachmann her only defeat in a 1999 Stillwater school board race, recalls seeing the future presidential candidate speak at an area church shortly after that election. "Chapman was supposed to be the headliner, but there was no question that she was the star," she said. "He was supposed to be the researcher. She was supposed to be the one who focused on the legal aspect—actually that was the first time I'd ever heard someone with a J.D. called a 'doctor.'" Bachmann's 2002 anti-Profile film, Guinea Pig Kids, likewise twice identified the then-state senator as "Dr. Michele Bachmann."

    And in 2000, when Bachmann knocked off incumbent GOP state Sen. Gary Laidig at the district nominating convention, the MREC fired off a news release repeatedly invoking their candidate's honorarium. "On the first ballot, Dr. Michele Bachmann was endorsed 62% to Laidig's 38%," it read. "Dr. Bachmann herself, who arrived at her convention with no intention of running, was shocked by her victory." (The narrative, promoted by the congresswoman, that she was an unlikely candidate is false—Bachmann had announced her candidacy months earlier and laid the groundwork for the upset by stacking the convention with anti-Profile activists.)

    "Dr. Bachmann" might have given the activist a bit more gravitas, but it was not an appropriate title. Bachmann received a J.D.—the standard law school degree—from Oral Roberts University, and an LL.M. in tax law from William & Mary in 1988. The LL.M. does count as a postdoctoral degree, as Bachmann says, because it came after she had received a "terminal degree"—that is, a degree that can't be directly improved upon. But while J.D. (juris doctor) has the word "doctor" in it, it is not accepted practice for J.D.'s to refer to themselves as "Dr."

    For basic law school graduates like Bachmann, "'Esquire' is the preferred term," says James Warren, an assistant in the dean's office at UCLA Law School. Nor does doing postdoctoral research bring with it any extra titles. "It's not like you've received another degree—it's like a fellowship," explains Zoe Fonseca-Kelly, chair of the board of directors of the National Postdoctoral Association. Rather, postdocs revert to whatever degree they had previously earned once they've finished their research.

    This isn't the only instance of Bachmann exaggerating her résumé. She continues to call herself a "tax attorney" or "tax litigation attorney" even though, according to the state of Minnesota, she is not currently authorized to practice law in the state. In an effort to prove her bipartisan appeal, she has stated that Minnesota Democrats squeezed her out of her old Senate district and put her in a new, liberal-leaning one—but the districts were drawn up by the courts, and her new district actually leaned red.

    On occasion, she has also stretched the truth about her foster children (she had 23) to make a political point. In a 2008 interview with Politico, she noted that she was feeling the squeeze from high gas prices because she has such a large family. "Energy will be the big focus right now," she said. "Every weekend now when I go home, I will go to the grocery store, I'll buy food for the family. We have five kids and 23 foster kids that we raise. So I go to the grocery store and buy a lot of food." The catch? She didn't have any foster children in 2008; her permit to take in foster children had expired in 2000 and she had taken in her last child, a teenage girl, in 1998.

    Bachmann's campaign did not respond to a request for comment.
    Hmmm... very interesting. From now on, I too am a doctor. I earned it from the University of Made-up Titles So People Will Think That I Mean Something.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    The LL.M. does count as a postdoctoral degree, as Bachmann says, because it came after she had received a "terminal degree"—that is, a degree that can't be directly improved upon.
    So, in other words, she never claimed to have a PhD. And what she did claim was true.

    What's the lie here?

  6. #5
    Supporting Member
    Michigan



    Blog Entries
    1
    Posts
    3,005
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    So, in other words, she never claimed to have a PhD. And what she did claim was true.

    What's the lie here?
    The lie is
    But while J.D. (juris doctor) has the word "doctor" in it, it is not accepted practice for J.D.'s to refer to themselves as "Dr."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    The lie is
    That's not a lie.

  8. #7
    The lies are:

    "She went by "Dr. Michele Bachmann," even though she had never obtained nor sought the advanced degree that's a prerequisite for the title." You have to have earned a PHD in order to use Dr. as a title. Otherwise we would all call ourselves Dr.Second lie:

    In a 2008 interview with Politico, she noted that she was feeling the squeeze from high gas prices because she has such a large family. "Energy will be the big focus right now," she said. "Every weekend now when I go home, I will go to the grocery store, I'll buy food for the family. We have five kids and 23 foster kids that we raise. So I go to the grocery store and buy a lot of food." The catch? She didn't have any foster children in 2008; her permit to take in foster children had expired in 2000 and she had taken in her last child, a teenage girl, in 1998.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    Second lie:

    In a 2008 interview with Politico, she noted that she was feeling the squeeze from high gas prices because she has such a large family. "Energy will be the big focus right now," she said. "Every weekend now when I go home, I will go to the grocery store, I'll buy food for the family. We have five kids and 23 foster kids that we raise. So I go to the grocery store and buy a lot of food." The catch? She didn't have any foster children in 2008; her permit to take in foster children had expired in 2000 and she had taken in her last child, a teenage girl, in 1998.
    But that's not what the thread title says.

    Is there any record of her claiming to have a PhD?



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    That's like calling yourself Rev. Erowe without having gone to theology school. She claims to be Dr. Michelle Bachmann, without having earned the PHD needed to earn the title.

  12. #10
    Looks like they're biting into this one... Any opinions on how many months she'll be able to hold on?

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  13. #11
    Guys, if you want to do this, it's your decision, but I'm tellin' ya that we want to be in a good position to bring Bachmann's supporters into Dr. Paul's camp. When you sling slime at her, you run the distinct risk of driving them away from Ron Paul.

    Remember how you felt when someone in Johnson's camp even hinted at dissing Ron Paul. Did it make you look more favorable on Johnson, or less?

    Bachmann is not a threat. Perry is.

  14. #12

    It's not that serious

    Kudos to Mother Jones for raising this issue, but I would strongly advise against harping on it to others; I would just add it to her inventory of other gaffes and do the math once they all add up.

    But if you want to get a laugh out of her improperly using the Dr. title, watch this clip, because not only does it have Denis Leary in it as the antagonist, it did immediately come to mind when I read the Mother Jones article:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob7Fin6aVtA&t=1m14s

    Hilarious stuff. But seriously, let the issue fall where it may. It ain't worth mulling over.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    That's like calling yourself Rev. Erowe without having gone to theology school. She claims to be Dr. Michelle Bachmann, without having earned the PHD needed to earn the title.
    There are plenty of people who call themselves reverend, and are called that by their church, without having earned a degree for it.

    When I hear someone call themselves "reverend" or "doctor" I don't assume anything about what the basis of that title is. If I want to know, it's up to me to find out, caveat emptor.

    And since when is a PhD the only degree that warrants the title "Dr."? Do you not call medical doctors "Dr." just because they don't have PhDs?

    She does have a doctoral degree, and she does have a postdoctoral degree. If people are satisfied with knowing that, that's up to them. If people care enough to find out just what kind of doctorate and what kind of postdoc., they can look into it and find out. The information is there, and from what I've read here, Bachmann has been honest about exactly what degrees her doctorate and postdoc were.

    Do I think that referring to herself as "Dr. Bachmann" is a bit of unbecoming self-aggrandizement? Yes. Is it a lie? No.
    Last edited by erowe1; 08-18-2011 at 03:43 PM.

  16. #14
    Lawyers have a JD degree (Juris Doctor). They are technically Doctors of Law.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric View Post
    Lawyers have a JD degree (Juris Doctor). They are technically Doctors of Law.
    That's what the article says right in the sentence where it admits that she's technically not lying. But some people insist that it's still a lie.

  18. #16
    Dr. Michele Bachmann, Esq.

    It's got a nice ring to it. LOL
    How have you helped spread the message of Liberty, Peace, & Prosperity today?
    "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." -George Washington



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    I've been a lawyer practicing law for 35 years. I practiced in Kansas, Colorado, California, federal courts, and in military courts during my tour of duty with the Navy JAG Corps. I never heard a lawyer call or identify herself or himself or address another lawyer as "Doctor [so-and-so]." Not once. In the U.S. the only people who refer to themselves or are addressed as "doctor" are those with some type of medical degree (M.D., D.O., D.D.S., D.C.) or Ph.D.s. Thus, when Bachmann referred to herself as Dr. Bachmann without having a medical degree or a Ph.D., she was, at a minimum, being misleading.

    A Juris Doctor (JD) degree is the basic law degree in the U.S. In Great Britain the basic law degree is a Bachelor of Law or LL.B. In both the U.S. and G.B., an advanced law degree is a Master of Law or LL.M. The highest law degree in the U.S., possessed by very few who are typically law professors, is the Doctor of Juridical Science or S.J.D. or J.S.D. Very few U.S. law schools offer such degrees and only on a non-curricular basis. In G.B, the highest law degree is the Doctor of Law or LL.D. Thus, someone who holds a Juris Doctor degree in no way, technical or otherwise, holds a degree that is equivalent to a Doctor of Law degree. A person who holds a Doctor of Juridical Science from a U.S. law school or a Doctor of Law from a British law school could legitimately call herself or himself "Doctor [so-and-so]" but unlikely do so for fear of appearing arrogant. In an academic setting, a person holding a Doctorate in Juridical Science or a Doctor of Law degree would be introduced as "doctor" out of respect and to let the audience know that the lawyer holds the highest possible law degree. End of lecture. lol
    Last edited by xbigdogz; 09-13-2013 at 12:59 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric View Post
    Lawyers have a JD degree (Juris Doctor). They are technically Doctors of Law.
    This is true. Medical doctors, or any other specialty doctors (DOs, ODs, DDS, ...), are all called doctors even though they are not PhDs; however, the recipients of JDs do not refer to themselves as doctors.

    I guess the reason for PhDs being referred to as doctor is a concept called "MD envy".
    Last edited by AFPVet; 09-13-2013 at 01:11 PM.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  22. #19
    Michelle Bachmann used to have a subforum here?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Michelle Bachmann used to have a subforum here?
    If she did it was probably buried in Hot Topics and had a lot of near x-rated material with corn dogs.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If she did it was probably buried in Hot Topics and had a lot of near x-rated material with corn dogs.

    LOL

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    This is true.
    Sorry, it is not true. Juris Doctors are not "technically" or in any other way Doctors of Law.
    Last edited by xbigdogz; 09-13-2013 at 02:18 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by xbigdogz View Post
    Sorry, it is not true.
    Uh welcome to the Forums?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by xbigdogz View Post
    Sorry, it is not true. Juris Doctors are not "technically" or in any other way Doctors of Law.
    Of course not... after all, a Juris Doctor is not a Juris Doctor... it's just called that Seriously dude... really?
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by xbigdogz View Post
    Sorry, it is not true. Juris Doctors are not "technically" or in any other way Doctors of Law.
    A lawyer, like you, is a Doctor of Jurisprudence. The J.D. is a professional doctorate, like an M.D., D.O., etc. The J.S.D. is a research doctorate, like a Ph.D. or Ed.D. As you have mentioned, it is uncommon to call a lawyer "doctor", but it does not make it untrue. This just shows Mrs. Bachmann has an ego problem.



Similar Threads

  1. What the Declaration of Independence Really Claimed
    By Anti Federalist in forum Political Philosophy & Government Policy
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-04-2015, 03:15 PM
  2. Ex Qwest CEO Claimed NSA Wanted Him to Spy Pre 9/11
    By angelatc in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2013, 07:32 PM
  3. Bombshell: 18 people died of the flu, not 36,000 as claimed by the CDC
    By John F Kennedy III in forum Health Freedom
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-11-2012, 06:17 PM
  4. It's time that WE claimed our share of the media
    By porcupine in forum Bad Media Reporting on Ron Paul
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-06-2008, 12:58 AM
  5. Whoa! CNN just claimed we might take NH
    By hawkeyenick in forum New Hampshire
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-17-2007, 01:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •