Stubborn Christians???

[thehittgirl]

I'm a Christian myself, so this is by no means an attack.

I think I tried too hard, or something...I'm so passionate that I looked angry. I tried to convert Christian friends, at least if anything to see how wrong this war is. Unfortunately, they associate my feelings with Ron's and it drove them away. They also thought I came across as thinking I was better than they are. UGH. So I am going to stop trying at least for now.

I am just wondering has anyone successfully talked sense into pro war Christians?

I was close to one of them, and I feel like I've lost her.

[tfelice]

Point them to Augustine's City of God which is the best articulation of the Just War Doctrine.

Also, to some extent we might need to wait out the Huckabee campaign. When Huckabee eventually drops out, Paul will be the only pro-life Evangelical left in the race. So even though a Christian voter may disagree with his foreign policy, his other attributes may be strong enough to justify a vote.

[thehittgirl]

Point them to Augustine's City of God which is the best articulation of the Just War Doctrine.

Also, to some extent we might need to wait out the Huckabee campaign. When Huckabee eventually drops out, Paul will be the only pro-life Evangelical left in the race. So even though a Christian voter may disagree with his foreign policy, his other attributes may be strong enough to justify a vote.

I will do that.

[jb4ronpaul]

Don't sweat it, just learn from the experience and try again in a different and better way. Know the just war theory. War is an ABSOLUTE last resort. If people want to bomb Iran without even talking to them first that is pretty wrong and makes us the agressor. Iran said they would sign a no nuke treaty if Israel did too.

Know Romans 13. The law of our land is the Constitution and must be followed, Bush et al is not the law or the true rule. Know the Constitution. Hand out a copy to people, you can buy pocket Constitutions cheap.

Know the evils of our foreign policy. Sanctions killing hundreds of thousand of innocent people. Is that pro life? Our tax dollars are used to support countries that persecute people, especially Christians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_...n_Saudi_Arabia
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...rms/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2766003.shtml
http://www.worthynews.com/christian/...leaving-islam/

Be a teacher. Ask people to explain in detail things like "Iran is a threat". there is usually nothing to back it up. Have people read Dr. Paul's a foreign policy of freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hCKZmkF0VU

In the end I am going to put my faith in the principles of the Bible, the Constitution, and the founding fathers. Not the politicians, bureaucrats, and media who lie to us and serve nothing but themselves.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).

[jb4ronpaul]

for Catholics

"The concept of a 'preventive war' does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church"
- Pope Benedict XVI

“Reasons sufficient for unleashing a war against Iraq did not exist”
- Pope Benedict XVI

"When war, like the one now in Iraq, threatens the fate of humanity, it is even more urgent for us to proclaim, with a firm and decisive voice, that only peace is the way of building a more just and caring society"
- Pope John Paul II

"Violence and weapons can never resolve the problems of man."
- Pope John Paul II

"Torture is a humiliation of the human person, whoever it is. The Church does not allow these means to extract the truth."
- Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican pontifical council on peace and justice.

[NoxTwilight]

One thing that I have observed when having political (or religious for that matter) discussions with many people is that most people without being aware of it, want to be right and want other to agree with them and this can cause the reactions you are describing. It's a natural human tendency I think but perhaps more so in our US society. I have found that this can be diffused by simply stating that you are just giving your point of view and completely support the other persons point of view and will never hold it against them or judge them if they don't agree with you. In fact you don't want them to just believe you, you want them to find out for themselves, just as you did! Some people will still react as if you are trying to tell them what to think and there is little you can do but some people will be much more able to listen to your point of view and hear you. Also it is hard to be calm when these issues cause such passions in us however showing that too much can also keep others from hearing your message. Temper your passions, be calm and have a smile - these are ways you can disarm people and make them comfortable so they can hear you.

One last thing - good friends are hard to find - don't let your passions push them away. On the other hand, if a friend turns their back on your because they don't believe what you believe then how much of a friend were they really?

My humble opinion - for what its worth

[micahnelson]

In a few months the economy is going to bottom out. We will not be able to borrow money to support the foreign policy we have right now.

The wisdom war will have to become a non-issue. There are a lot of wars that people can justify in one way or another, but frankly America cannot afford them.

We can make a logical approach to why it benefits society that all children have good educations, families have homes, babies have top medical care, seniors have retirement, cats and dogs get neutered, etc etc...

The questions always come down to.
1) Is it wise?
2) Can we afford it?

Even if you think our foreign policy is wise, its a moot point. It might seem like a good idea to them, just like 5,000 dollars for each child in the USA, but it is not something we can afford to do. There is no getting around that point. We can't afford it. Period.

[Original_Intent]

In a few months the economy is going to bottom out. We will not be able to borrow money to support the foreign policy we have right now.

The wisdom war will have to become a non-issue. There are a lot of wars that people can justify in one way or another, but frankly America cannot afford them.

We can make a logical approach to why it benefits society that all children have good educations, families have homes, babies have top medical care, seniors have retirement, cats and dogs get neutered, etc etc...

The questions always come down to.
1) Is it wise?
2) Can we afford it?

Even if you think our foreign policy is wise, its a moot point. It might seem like a good idea to them, just like 5,000 dollars for each child in the USA, but it is not something we can afford to do. There is no getting around that point. We can't afford it. Period.

Of course, the neo-con answer to this will be "Can we afford NOT to (fight the war)?" It doesn't make any sense but they will keep the lemmings running over the cliff's edge...

[JenHarris]

What I have found is this:
Show people all the ways they agree with Ron. Get them to say hey I like everything he is for except the war. Then you get to say, looking at ALL the issues which candidate do you agree with most? Then find a way to end the conversation. Let them think about it for a bit and they end up coming your way. That's how I won both of my parents anyway. Both of them are fundamentalist Christians.

[micahnelson]

Of course, the neo-con answer to this will be "Can we afford NOT to (fight the war)?" It doesn't make any sense but they will keep the lemmings running over the cliff's edge...

Can we afford to have our troops overseas when we cannot purchase oil to bring them home?

Yes Terrorism is a threat, but compared to the military vulnerability of the mainland united states, it is minor. We can survive a few terrorist attacks, but we cannot survive a military strike from Russia or China when our soldiers are in the middle east without fuel to get home.

Neo-cons want to worry about something? Try this.

1) Saudi Arabia begins accepting mixed euro-dollar payments for oil under international pressure.
2) National Banks begin dumping the Dollar as a reserve currency, major players leave the US market, the IMF does nothing as they are tired of the US monetary policy and are looking to put economic control in globalist friendly Europe. (They have indicated they believe the dollar is weak)
3) Gas prices surge and politicians, afraid of the public, release most of the strategic oil reserve despite military objections(they have done this in the past)
4) Saudi Arabia's OPEC abandons the dollar all together.
5) Hyperinflation of the US Dollar due to the Feds attempt to keep banks solvent.
6) Bank Runs, Food Runs, Rioting at home
7) US Begins an emergency pull out of forces around the world. This is hampered by the inability to obtain oil. The hasty retreat makes us vulnerable and many terrorist attacks occur in the process.
8) China and the Europeans claim rights to US Property in return for the US's inability to pay for its debt.
9) Troops trickle in from around the world only to find Chaos in the streets, extremely limited fuel availability, and the impending threat of invasion over international debt.

Welcome to America after the economic collapse, unless we get some decent leadership.