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Thread: Don't raise taxes!!! ???

  1. #1

    Don't raise taxes!!! ???

    Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS

    Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

    http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/...ay-taxes-1587/

    This $#@! REALLY pisses me off. God forbid we should ask the corporations that are raking it in on the backs of the working class to pay their fair share!
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.



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  3. #2
    The problem is NOT that anyone is failing to pay their share. The problem is that government has slipped its Constitutional bounds and gone on an insane spending spree. It needs to be reigned in HARD!!!! NOW!!! The argument that this class isn't paying enough or that class is paying too much is a diversion. Stay focused!
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  4. #3
    So you don't think that corporations which earn billions of dollars in profits every year should pay taxes?
    Not only should they pay taxes, but the idea that they get tax rebates is ludicrous.
    And, on top of that, many of these same companies received TARP funds. Ridiculous.

    Part of the problem in restoring the balance of the budget IS tax receipts. I will be SHOCKED if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts and more, I will be righteously angry if they do so.
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.

  5. #4
    actually, now that I think about it, even if we "raised" their effective tax rate to FREAKING ZERO, the government would make out. How f'd up is THAT? How can anyone justify corporations NOT paying ANY TAXES AND getting tarp funds AND getting a rebate check. I dare ANYONE to justify that!
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.

  6. #5
    The problem is that they appeal to these big businesses giving them bailouts and tax breaks while start up businesses and mid sized businesses get taxed to all hell. I don't believe increasing taxes for anyone is going to do a great deal to help the government debt. They will just see that extra money as more for them to spend, which is the problem in the first place, spending is out of control.

    If you are for taxing these big businesses fine, but know that it won't even put a dent in the debt problem or spending problem of the fed.

    Especially when some of these companies can base their HQ overseas and pay less in taxes and or put their money in foreign banks to avoid paying those taxes.

  7. #6
    How about restoring private property rights, removing liability caps, and ending subsidies?
    "It is not enough these days to simply question authority. You must speak with it, too."
    -Taylor Mali


    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."
    -Samuel Adams

  8. #7
    Considering all the things corporations get, they should pay more. Remove all the idiotic deductions/subsidies that allow crap like this to happen.
    I don't think corporations should pay lower rates than people who work and actually produce things. Nor should investors.

  9. #8
    all good ideas but that still doesn't get to MY point - which is that these corporations should be paying taxes and asking them to is NOT un-American, or against the wealthy or any such bs. It is asking them to pay their fair share, instead of asking ACTUAL TAXPAYERS to subsidize their businesses.
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.



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  11. #9
    I'm with you on that ChaosControl (love the name btw)
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.

  12. #10
    Corporations do not "pay" anything, they just pass the cost along to the end customer.

    Tariffs, that's another story, because that forces investment and jobs back into the country.

    Higher corporate income taxes just runs jobs off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    So you don't think that corporations which earn billions of dollars in profits every year should pay taxes?
    Not only should they pay taxes, but the idea that they get tax rebates is ludicrous.
    And, on top of that, many of these same companies received TARP funds. Ridiculous.

    Part of the problem in restoring the balance of the budget IS tax receipts. I will be SHOCKED if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts and more, I will be righteously angry if they do so.

  13. #11
    Exactly. There is no such thing as a corporate tax. The taxes get calculated into the price of their goods/services. So who pays the taxes? YOU do, Sematary, you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Corporations do not "pay" anything, they just pass the cost along to the end customer.

    Tariffs, that's another story, because that forces investment and jobs back into the country.

    Higher corporate income taxes just runs jobs off.

  14. #12
    Which STILL doesn't speak to corporations getting REBATES on taxes they didn't pay. And, while it is true that corporations pass the expenditures along, the cost to each of us individually is next to nothing compared to the revenue lost. If that is what it takes to increase revenues to help balance the budget, I'm all for it. UP them taxes and pass the cost along to the rest of us. I'm ready.
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.

  15. #13
    I agree with your point about the rebates...

    The rest....huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    Which STILL doesn't speak to corporations getting REBATES on taxes they didn't pay. And, while it is true that corporations pass the expenditures along, the cost to each of us individually is next to nothing compared to the revenue lost. If that is what it takes to increase revenues to help balance the budget, I'm all for it. UP them taxes and pass the cost along to the rest of us. I'm ready.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    Which STILL doesn't speak to corporations getting REBATES on taxes they didn't pay. And, while it is true that corporations pass the expenditures along, the cost to each of us individually is next to nothing compared to the revenue lost. If that is what it takes to increase revenues to help balance the budget, I'm all for it. UP them taxes and pass the cost along to the rest of us. I'm ready.
    I'm not.

    I never wanted any of this, I never agreed to any of this and I'm sure as hell not going to pay for all this.

    By this I mean the corporate/government/military/surveillance complex.

    $#@! it, let it all go broke.

  17. #15
    Sematary, I don't think anyone here believes businesses should receive "rebates" or TARP funds. Eliminating such policies would not constitute a "tax increase" any more than the firing of an employee amounts to theft of his hypothetical future wages. However, you do not seem to be drawing the proper distinction, here, between valid profit such as that which companies like ExxonMobil earn by actually selling their product and ill-gotten government largesse; there is a huge difference between revoking corrupt hand-outs ("rebates" or TARP) and coercively appropriating money someone actually earned (as you appear to be advocating, for instance, when you call for an end to the "Bush tax cuts").

  18. #16
    Great post for this forum. Everybody who isn't rich is fed up with the unfair tax system we have in this country. Lurkers who are learning about Ron Paul must feel the same way. So, why are Libertarians and poor Republicans against increased taxes on the uber-rich?

    Well, we are all against income tax to begin with, because it is "theft". It infringes on our rights. But, we have to pay them until things are changed; if they are ever changed. In the mean time, we are supposed to just sit and watch rich, greedy people put the burden of the tax system on the rest of us who are struggling? Screw ideology! We live in reality, and the OP has made an excellent observation.

    Do you guys, who are against having the rich pay their fair share, really think that the rich love you more for defending them, or that the rich will back Ron Paul because he will end income tax? Hardly! Why? Because, as Sematary pointed out, the rich don't pay taxes.

    At some point, there will have to be higher taxes for more revenue. Nobody is paying attention to the ancaps philosophy, so somebody is going to have to pay. And it will be us, the poor, and the ones who are struggling. Why would the rich pay more in taxes, when they don't even pay any in the first place?!?
    Last edited by YumYum; 08-01-2011 at 05:52 PM.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth



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  20. #17
    The rich pay their fair share. It just depends on your definition of rich. Every person drawing income from a corporation pays their taxes or is audited by the IRS. A corporation itself can have it's money in reserves, but that money does not directly belong to one person. Once any owner or chairman takes money from the corporation he then pays taxes on that money and it's not some small amount either.

    Ending rebates and other government dollars being thrown towards these companies should not be done.

    However don't confuse rich people not paying taxes with the corporation itself not paying taxes on it's assets.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    Sematary, I don't think anyone here believes businesses should receive "rebates" or TARP funds. Eliminating such policies would not constitute a "tax increase" any more than the firing of an employee amounts to theft of his hypothetical future wages. However, you do not seem to be drawing the proper distinction, here, between valid profit such as that which companies like ExxonMobil earn by actually selling their product and ill-gotten government largesse; there is a huge difference between revoking corrupt hand-outs ("rebates" or TARP) and coercively appropriating money someone actually earned (as you appear to be advocating, for instance, when you call for an end to the "Bush tax cuts").
    ^^^^
    THIS

    And Sematary, what's with this "on the backs of the working class" $#@! coming from? They are called JOBS. If they don't want them, no one is forcing them to take them. They can go do something else.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    Great post for this forum. Everybody who isn't rich is fed up with the unfair tax system we have in this country. Lurkers who are learning about Ron Paul must feel the same way. So, why are Libertarians and poor Republicans against increased taxes on the uber-rich?

    Well, we are all against income tax to begin with, because it is "theft". It infringes on our rights. But, we have to pay them until things are changed; if they are ever changed. In the mean time, we are supposed to just sit and watch rich, greedy people put the burden of the tax system on the rest of us who are struggling? Screw ideology! We live in reality, and the OP has made an excellent observation.

    Do you guys, who are against having the rich pay their fair share, really think that the rich love you more for defending them, or that the rich will back Ron Paul because he will end income tax? Hardly! Why? Because, as Sematary pointed out, the rich don't pay taxes.
    Define "rich".

    At some point, there will have to be higher taxes for more revenue. Nobody is paying attention to the ancaps philosophy, so somebody is going to have to pay. And it will be us, the poor, and the ones who are struggling. Why would the rich pay more in taxes, when they don't even pay any in the first place?!?
    I'm for cutting the damn spending and getting rid of all of the government that is not constitutional. Then yes, we will all pay for that very small constitutional government that we agree we need to have.

    But hell no, I am not for some kind of stick it to everyone who has more money than I have, mindset. That is pure bull$#@!. You should know better.

  23. #20
    I don't want any more money going to this government no matter who it comes from. Let their terror enterprise go broke.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    I don't want any more money going to this government no matter who it comes from. Let their terror enterprise go broke.
    Yes but how would we bring freedom to the middle east? That's money well spent!!

    /sarcasm

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    I don't want any more money going to this government no matter who it comes from. Let their terror enterprise go broke.
    That's true, but the reality of it all is that while some of us want this all to collapse (the sooner the better, right Kludge?), in the meantime the poor will get stuck with paying more in taxes and the rich will still get away with what the OP pointed out. Look, there are rich people who are honest people, who have worked hard and pay their taxes. I am not talking about them. I am talking about those who don't pay taxes and those rich folks who wanted Bush's wars.

    Define "rich".
    Well, Liberty Eagle, you are a Christian. According to Jesus it's those people who won't be allowed in Heaven, or will have a very, very, difficult time convincing God to let them in.

    "Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
    Luke 18:25
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    Well, Liberty Eagle, you are a Christian. According to Jesus it's those people who won't be allowed in Heaven, or will have a very, very, difficult time convincing God to let them in.
    I find it very hard for you or the government to decide who God will let into heaven based on their riches. If we were to let anyone interpret that passage I would assume you yourself would be among one of those rich that has too much and does not give enough. You have a computer, the internet, I am guessing an AC and electricity to power those things. There are many that do without yet you live luxuriously while they suffer. Perhaps you should be taxed more?

  27. #24
    They shouldn't be subsidized, but they should ideally pay very very little. All taxes are gonna do is turn and bite you in the ass with:

    1. Higher prices - Apparently you want Exxon to pay high taxes which will double our gas prices at best which hurts the poor and middle class.
    2. Higher unemployment - Higher taxes reduces corporations from risk taking, going outside their comfort zone to produce innovation which would require a lot of money and massive amounts of new jobs. Because they are taxed to death, they are afraid of taking risks.
    3. Lower wages - Simple. If they have more money they will want to raise the wages for better loyalty and better workers. Better efficiency comes full circle with prices.

    Or we can tax them to death and let career politicians with no business experience run our world.
    Last edited by AlexAmore; 08-01-2011 at 06:39 PM.
    Founder and leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army.



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  29. #25
    Go ahead and raise taxes. The "corporations" will still pay very little while I, as a member of the "rich," will pay the full amount!
    ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronulus View Post
    I find it very hard for you or the government to decide who God will let into heaven based on their riches. If we were to let anyone interpret that passage I would assume you yourself would be among one of those rich that has too much and does not give enough. You have a computer, the internet, I am guessing an AC and electricity to power those things. There are many that do without yet you live luxuriously while they suffer. Perhaps you should be taxed more?
    You are assuming wrong. I have paid thousands in taxes. And, yes, I will be taxed more, I am counting on it. That is why I am frustrated.

    With regards to Jesus condemning the "rich", there are only two groups of people that He condemns: the rich and the religious leaders.

    And guess what? Neither of the two groups pays taxes!
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    all good ideas but that still doesn't get to MY point - which is that these corporations should be paying taxes and asking them to is NOT un-American, or against the wealthy or any such bs. It is asking them to pay their fair share, instead of asking ACTUAL TAXPAYERS to subsidize their businesses.
    I don't know if it's unamerican or not. But asking them to pay taxes is definitely wrong.

    The solution to the problem of corporate welfare isn't to impose a new tax that's supposed to make it all better, it's to end corporate welfare.

  32. #28
    The combined wealth of every billionaire in the united states is 1.3 trillion dollars. Even if you seized every asset they had what would you do with it? Fund Medicare for a year? Bomb another country? Write SS checks for another year?

    Yippee....

    After that then who will you go after?

    Taxes are NOT the $#@!ing problem here, the problem is that there is way too much stupid $#@! to pay for, and not enough money to pay for it. Do you go and get another credit card every time you run out of money? Or do you start cutting back on strippers and booze for a while? Common sense man, save more, spend less, and never buy something you can't afford. It's that simple.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    in the meantime the poor will get stuck with paying more in taxes and the rich will still get away with what the OP pointed out.
    The poor don't pay more taxes than the rich. My wife and I came out of our taxes with a sizable net gain each of the past couple years because of our kids. And it looks like that will continue for the foreseeable future. And that's not considering what we've gotten back from the government in other ways.

    Poor and rich are relative terms anyway. If you described to anyone a century ago what the poor in America live like today, they'd think the war against poverty had already been won.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Define "rich".



    I'm for cutting the damn spending and getting rid of all of the government that is not constitutional. Then yes, we will all pay for that very small constitutional government that we agree we need to have.

    But hell no, I am not for some kind of stick it to everyone who has more money than I have, mindset. That is pure bull$#@!. You should know better.
    I'm with you on constitutional government but reality says that even if we were to receive that, it would take decades to prevent throwing the entire world into chaos (which is what would happen). In the meantime, if people on Social Security have to take a hit then the wealthy should share in the pain - of course, pain is all relative. If someone who makes a more than comfortable living loses a few percent, it might affect their choices as to what investments they make. If someone on social security loses a few percent it will change their choices as to what to put on the table tonight.
    Our rights are not derived from man but exist because we are men.

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