Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34

Thread: Who are you mad at really?

  1. #1

    Who are you mad at really?

    'What your daddy did to you was abuse.'

    'How dare you talk that way about my daddy?!'

    What has it to do with politics? Everything. Politicians piss us off, then try to misdirect our anger 'across the aisle' to people who are fundamentally exactly the same, but wear a different party label. The game is age old, but still works.

    People are angry, but they are often in denial about it. They know they're angry, but they don't want to admit they're angry because they got fooled, and they sure don't want to admit that they insisted on hearing the pretty lies that fooled them. So, if they can't allow themselves to be angry at the person who did them harm, they'll be angry at whomever or whatever is handy, and most especially at whomever or whatever makes them see how they have been complicit in their own destruction.

    This is no small part of how the powers that be keep us sniping at each other over extraneous matters like gay marriage and abortion while they demonstrate the pure paradigm of bipartisanship in order to rob us blind.

    In order to win people over to our side, we must help them see who they're really mad at without making them mad at us--and by extension, Ron Paul--in the process. Tricky business, as we've been seeing.

    Many Republicans would love for us to live up to the WWII ideal, and go around kicking ass in order to set people free. This isn't what's happening, but they'd love it to be so. Many Democrats would love for us to live up to the ideal of helping to make lives better here and abroad. Of course, the more they support such things, the more the resultant programs mainly serve to help the rich get richer at the expense of the poor.

    And they're both angry. They just don't know who they're angry at. Yet.

    If we're to pull off this revolution, we must tap that anger. But we must never tap that anger without giving it the proper direction. And I think the key here is to give them hope. Because hopelessness will piss you off. So, if Democrats get pissy because they want this utopia where everyone's happy, remind them that there are not only charities in the world, but smaller governments than the federal government which are more responsive to the people who elect them (and have a much better idea of just what the local needy really need). And if Republicans are angry that ass kicking isn't leading to a more peaceful and Godly world, remind them that they themselves have been more influenced by those people in their lives who led them by example than by those who tried to beat them into behaving. This is called presenting alternatives, and presenting alternatives is always a positive message.

    If there's one thing we should always remember about our salesmanship, it's that we are on the same side as every disaffected and angry voter in the nation. And we had better figure out how to make them see this true fact before we even try to drive our point home. Otherwise, we lose. And so do they.

    There is no such thing as 'sheeple'. There is only Yamamoto's sleeping giant, waiting to be filled with a terrible resolve. Well, they're being filled with that terrible resolve. So, the question is, can we help them see who they're really angry at? Or will we merely make them mad at us? Sometimes the best way to help a person who is hurting is to make the sacrifice and be a lightning rod for them--even if it costs you personally. This can help them critically examine their own anger. But in this campaign, we don't have that luxury. We just can't afford to make them mad at Ron Paul for being so rude as to be honest.

    We've got to make people see--first, before we do anything else at all--that we are on their side. And in order to do this, we must not only find ways to explain the issues that are inclusive, meaning that we show them how Ron Paul's solutions help them. First and foremost we must remember that they are on our side. No matter how long or how often they've been fooled into being a part of the problem.

    It just doesn't matter how often they've aided and abetted our mutual enemies out of ignorance and a desire to be a part of something bigger than themselves. It doesn't matter how often they've fallen for pretty lies. If they've finally figured out that what they've tried and tried and tried again just isn't helping (but quite the opposite), the first thing we must remember is that they are on our side, period. And the second thing we must remember is that they're not really mad at us. Mostly they're mad at themselves, and at the people who fooled them. Whether they want to admit it or not.

    And if we can give that anger a legitimate and deserving target, we win.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "There is one thing in common with all revolutions (in fact, they are pretty much like wars in that respect), nobody ever knows what they are fighting about."--Will Rogers
    Can we be patient and forgiving enough to make a liar out of Will Rogers?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-26-2011 at 07:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    I agree with your assessment and your plan. I think you've said it quite well. +rep! I think one major benefit of using a teamwork based strategy is that it emphases the similarities rather than the differences. Which brings us back to Ron's statement that "Freedom brings people together". Your plan is entirely consistent with the message, and I think it would benefit everyone to start putting it into practice.

    I'm reminded of the psychological defense mechanisms of displacement and projection. We need to be mindful of not falling into these traps, let alone setting the traps ourselves for others to stumble upon.
    Maxed out to ALL of Ron Paul's campaigns.

    Listen to Liberty Tree Radio! ::

    Pro-Liberty, Pro-Gun, Pro-Militia Radio 5 days a week, 10 LIVE HRS TALK RADIO PER DAY!

    http://www.libertytreeradio.4mg.com

    http://www.themicroeffect.com (8A - 11A EST daily)

    http://www.live365.com/stations/edtheak47 (3 PM- 9 PM EST daily)


    Organize, Arm, Equip, and Train as a Militia !


  4. #3
    Thanks, pacman. I've always considered kind words from you to be high praise indeed!
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, if Democrats get pissy because they want this utopia where everyone's happy, remind them that there are not only charities in the world, but smaller governments than the federal government which are more responsive to the people who elect them (and have a much better idea of just what the local needy really need). And if Republicans are angry that ass kicking isn't leading to a more peaceful and Godly world, remind them that they themselves have been more influenced by those people in their lives who led them by example than by those who tried to beat them into behaving. This is called presenting alternatives, and presenting alternatives is always a positive message.
    +rep, excellent post!
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    You're not making the claim that there's no objective best diet, are you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #5
    And ditto to you.

    Impatience only seems more powerful than patience. It really isn't. And if you don't believe me, ask Ghandi. Or Jesus of Nazareth.

    Even if you must become impatient with someone to finally dislodge them from the rut in which they are stuck, it doesn't mean much unless you have been patient as Job up until then. How else will they know that you're actually frustrated because you care about them?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-26-2011 at 08:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  7. #6
    The feedback I'm getting from this means a great deal to me.

    Displacement

    Have ever had a really bad day at work and then gone home and taken out your frustration on family and friends? Then you have experienced the ego defense mechanism of displacement. Displacement involves taking out our frustrations, feelings and impulses on people or objects that are less threatening. Displaced aggression is a common example of this defense mechanism. Rather than express our anger in ways that could lead to negative consequences (like arguing with our boss), we instead express our anger towards a person or object that poses no threat (such as our spouse, children or pets).

    http://psychology.about.com/od/theor...ensemech_5.htm
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-26-2011 at 10:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  8. #7
    Definition: Projection is a type of defense mechanism. In projection, a person experiences an emotion or thought that they aren't able to cope with. So, instead, they perceive the thought or feeling as if it had come from someone else. One example of this mechanism is the person who is angry at a friend, but does not feel comfortable with feelings of anger in himself. He may instead deny these feelings and imagine that his friend is the angry one.

    http://depression.about.com/od/gloss...projection.htm

    Kind of like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and believing that anyone who wants to try something different to be the one lacking sanity?

    pacelli, if you have better definitions than these, do please post 'em!
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  9. #8
    Just one shameless bump.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Not that i disagree but i tend to want to stay away of anger entirely because anger whether is directed or misdirected isn't for the most part productive.

    anger happens, its part of life.. but self realizition, honesty, logic, and empathy to others matters much more..

    though i dont like the fear vs love analogy myself it sort of plays in..

    I often find myself quoting "Fear is the Mind killer.." anger can come out of fear and loss of control/discomfort.. when we realize we are not in control, aren't entitled to and wont have a completly comfortable life no matter what, and become alright with it is when we can move past the anger and the fear and into sustainability and balance..

    or maybe i misread the intent of your post, so i apologize if i did..

  12. #10
    There is no such thing as 'sheeple'. There is only Yamamoto's sleeping giant, waiting to be filled with a terrible resolve. Well, they're being filled with that terrible resolve. So, the question is, can we help them see who they're really angry at? Or will we merely make them mad at us? Sometimes the best way to help a person who is hurting is to make the sacrifice and be a lightning rod for them--even if it costs you personally. This can help them critically examine their own anger. But in this campaign, we don't have that luxury. We just can't afford to make them mad at Ron Paul for being so rude as to be honest.
    Laughter.

    "If you're going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise, they'll kill you."

  13. #11
    Hey, AF. Credit where due! --Oscar Wilde. And yes, you are so right. Laughter is the best medicine.

    I was trying to keep this a harmless discussion about canvassing, but of course it runs deeper than this. And love the Dune reference. Great book--great series, in fact.

    A lot of us don't get this notion that politicians are anything more than psychopathic clowns in suits, and get impatient with people who think otherwise. We shouldn't expect much from any mortal human, or get mad at each other for being imperfect, but it happens anyway--especially when we're young and vulnerable. And if we can't admit that we're mad at someone from our past because we feel we shouldn't be mad at them, we can't forgive them and move on. Which leaves us carrying a heavy load.

    But, as Edie Brickell said, time to throw me in the shallow water.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-26-2011 at 03:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  14. #12
    'Even the Glorious Fourth was in some sense a failure, for it rained hard, there was no procession in consequence, and the greatest man in the world (as Tom supposed), Mr. Benton, an actual United States Senator proved an overwhelming disappointment--for he was not twenty-five feet high, nor even anywhere in the neighborhood of it.'--Mark Twain, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Chapter 22
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Definition: Projection is a type of defense mechanism. In projection, a person experiences an emotion or thought that they aren't able to cope with. So, instead, they perceive the thought or feeling as if it had come from someone else. One example of this mechanism is the person who is angry at a friend, but does not feel comfortable with feelings of anger in himself. He may instead deny these feelings and imagine that his friend is the angry one.

    http://depression.about.com/od/gloss...projection.htm

    Kind of like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and believing that anyone who wants to try something different to be the one lacking sanity?

    pacelli, if you have better definitions than these, do please post 'em!
    Those are actually pretty good examples-- I'd say stick with them for understanding the core concept. So much can get lost in translation when it comes to psychoanalytical theory. Stick with those examples and you are on the right path regarding the visceral response of your average voter.

    I'd only add more relevant example of displacement for the grassroots-- throwing snowballs at hannity in 2007/08 was a form of displacement. Instead of taking down foxnews, some folks decided to throw snowballs at one of their anchors. Perhaps none of those individuals were members of RPF. Nonetheless, it was an obvious mechanism at work.


    It is critically important for all of us to be self-aware as we campaign. I mean this literally: To those that we speak to, we ARE Ron Paul. I can't stress that enough.
    Last edited by pacelli; 06-26-2011 at 03:56 PM.
    Maxed out to ALL of Ron Paul's campaigns.

    Listen to Liberty Tree Radio! ::

    Pro-Liberty, Pro-Gun, Pro-Militia Radio 5 days a week, 10 LIVE HRS TALK RADIO PER DAY!

    http://www.libertytreeradio.4mg.com

    http://www.themicroeffect.com (8A - 11A EST daily)

    http://www.live365.com/stations/edtheak47 (3 PM- 9 PM EST daily)


    Organize, Arm, Equip, and Train as a Militia !


  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pacelli View Post
    It is critically important for all of us to be self-aware as we campaign. I mean this literally: To those that we speak to, we ARE Ron Paul. I can't stress that enough.
    +rep!

    "Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." -Jesus

    every word we speak has a consequence. especially so when one claims to be a representative of someone else.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by flightlesskiwi View Post
    +rep!
    What went wrong? Did you run dry on the stuff?

    I don't mean to whine, but I'm soooooooo close...!
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What went wrong? Did you run dry on the stuff?

    I don't mean to whine, but I'm soooooooo close...!
    ya convinced me. +rep

    here's to attempting to wake the giant! cheers!



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    great post acptulsa! I have found that the more I listen to people instead of trying to blow them over with my own rhetoric the more likely they are to listen to my suggestions.

    A lot of people are scared I am too kinda. I never thought I would be so close to homelessness at my age. I know a lot of people who are having their hours cut and loosing their jobs it is so scary. Ron Paul gives me hope because I know someone is fighting for me to help win back my financial freedom. People tell me all the time that I ought to be glad for all the government programs I could take advantage of them but I do not want to be party to government stealing from other people who are already over burdened.

    I am working on my canvasing speech about Ron Paul and working with people who have some influence in my city to help get his message heard. I know that simplicity works don't get too complex. I am practicing on my friends and have already converted a couple of liberals by listening and knowing enough about Ron's stand on government to answer their questions. The young are the easiest to convince older people have heard he is going to end their social security and medical and that is really scary for them. So listen to the concerns and dispel the lies wherever you can.

    I have talked to some people who are for Ron Paul that have ideas that I am pretty sure he does not stand for and for me they are the trickiest ones to talk to cause I do not want to make Ron loose a supporter but, when I think about them maybe spreading disinformation I just have to as softly as I can say no that is not what Ron is about.

  21. #18
    Yeah. If they're full of disinformation you just can't let that stand. Even if it means abandoning subtlety. Maybe straightening them out will win them over and maybe they're hopeless. But if they're going to lie about our man, at least make sure they're doing it knowingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  22. #19
    Corporatism has nothing to do with party lines. But politics cannot rise completely above party lines. Getting non-Republicans to come affect the Republican primary shouldn't be that hard, except that they seem to think some kind of stench will attach itself to them if they do so. But anger at Obama's betrayals, if carefully directed and channeled, can do this. Getting Republicans behind our man is trickier. I still like the 'do you want another salesman or a statesman' angle for this, but this is a delicate game when they so obviously love to be charmed out of their drawers.

    But the hungrier they get, the better we look. And right now, that's a big, big plus.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  23. #20
    Gotta bump this.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  24. #21
    Last permitted self-bump.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  25. #22
    Here's another example of projection I got froma professor: an office worker makes an error and has to fix it. While doing so, the supervisor enters the room. The worker feels that the supervisor is out to get him/her for incompetence.
    In this case, the worker's frustration about performance projects onto the supervisor.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinnuhana View Post
    In this case, the worker's frustration about performance projects onto the supervisor.
    Interesting. I'd've chalked that up to paranoia, myself...
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  27. #24
    Thank you actrulsa! What a great, thought provoking post! I'd like to add that I've found, rather than making statements to potential supporters, it's much more effective to ask questions about why they feel the way they do. People will see common sense when they reach the conclusions through their own heart like many of us have.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    You're welcome. And thank you for reiterating that the first step is asking questions! Don't assume you know what interests them, find out! Good man.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  30. #26
    when things don't turn out the way i'd planned, and the anger gets directed at me (the mudslinging), i like to watch
    Tom Wood's "interview with a zombie" youtube.

    you can't always redirect everyone's anger. some people are so embittered that i swear they don't remember what they were originally angry about. they have a general idea and usually attach that idea to whatever political party/political party leader, but getting to the "heart" of the matter is nearly impossible with some.

    i think it's good to remember we can't win them all. i just got reminded of this today. no matter how calm, articulate or well-informed i am (and thus my arguments are), some people really do think that [politician A] is at fault and [politician B] just hasn't had enough time to correct [politician A]'s mess up. and nothing i can do will persuade this person that it is a failure of the system. he wants to say that it is, and he will say that it is a system failure, but he actually wants more of the system to "fix" the failure.

    irrational and illogical people are REALLY difficult for me to talk to.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by flightlesskiwi View Post
    i think it's good to remember we can't win them all. i just got reminded of this today. no matter how calm, articulate or well-informed i am (and thus my arguments are), some people really do think that [politician A] is at fault and [politician B] just hasn't had enough time to correct [politician A]'s mess up. and nothing i can do will persuade this person that it is a failure of the system. he wants to say that it is, and he will say that it is a system failure, but he actually wants more of the system to "fix" the failure.
    You've been talking to an 'Obama as Messiah' type. I can tell. When 'but our war count has doubled' fails to even cause a twinge, it's time to just say, 'God save you' and move on. There are types like this on both sides.

    Don't get it get to you. If debt and loss of privacy and freedom, Vilsack and skyrocketing prices on all, and especially on organic food, a dying dollar destroying their and their parent's savings, and their children coming home from war maimed and with PTSD are not as awful to them as admitting to themselves that they were just plain wrong about something, then I guess they're hopeless. That is more than we mere mortals can fix.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-13-2011 at 06:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You've been talking to an 'Obama as Messiah' type. I can tell. When 'but our war count has doubled' fails to even cause a twinge, it's time to just say, 'God save you' and move on. There are types like this on both sides.

    Don't get it get to you. If debt and loss of privacy and freedom, Vilsack and skyrocketing prices on all, and especially on organic food, a dying dollar destroying their and their parent's savings, and their children coming home from war maimed and with PTSD are not as awful to them as admitting to themselves that they were just plain wrong about something, then I guess they're hopeless. That is more than we mere mortals can fix.
    the crazy thing: this dude is in the navy. and worships war. but hates bush (??) (and i know from a few other non-political comments he's sent my way that he's delusional.)

    i'm considering throwing him on my block list. it's a win-win: it will make him feel like he's "won" (rather, that i've conceded because i am a coward-- he implied as much this morning when i had to end the online non-debate in order to leave for a meeting) and it will also keep me from wasting my time. thank goodness online is the only contact i have with the guy (although we grew up together)!!!

    thanks for the encouragement!!! it's much appreciated!

  33. #29
    Well, if it was me, I'd be inclined to send one more post:

    I'm corageous enough to admit it when I'm wrong. But, hey, far be it from me to argue with a squid.

    But then, I do tend to push things one step to far...
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by flightlesskiwi View Post
    irrational and illogical people are REALLY difficult for me to talk to.
    'Were you all about Newt? Were you all about Dubya? What'd that get ya? You oughta be mad at those pretenders, not me. They're the ones that fooled y'all. Dr. Paul and I aren't even trying to.

    When worst comes to worst, plant the seed and walk away.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-20-2011 at 10:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •