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Thread: Ron Paul: Israel is Our Close Friend

  1. #91
    Israel is our close friend.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    R e p u b l i c a n

    P r i m a r y
    Yep.

    And even then, he's avoiding the word "ally". Love it.

  4. #93
    US diversions

    In the past three decades, Arab leaders allied with the United States (and even the few who were not) have been telling their peoples that Iran, Shia, Sunni Islamists, the Palestinian people and their wretched cause, among others, are the reason for the hardship of Arabs. Indeed this conjuring up of enemies started with the US-Saudi-Kuwaiti plan to subcontract an all-out war against revolutionary Iran, as the enemy of Arabs, which was launched by Saddam Hussein in 1981 to defend America's oil wells - and which resulted by 1988 in the death of one million Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis.

    In the meantime, and since the late 1960s, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon have engaged in wars with the Palestinian guerrillas and against Palestinian civilians, whom they identified as the enemy. Egypt launched a war against Libya when Sadat was in power, and later, under Mubarak, against its own Islamists and against the Palestinian people. Indeed even Algeria was conjured up as the enemy of Egyptians in Mubarak's last year on the throne.

    Saudi Arabia, while repressing all of its population in the name of Wahabism, has not stopped hatching various plans (and plots) since 1982 to bring Israel into the Arab fold. When President Obama peddles the Israeli lie, that his pro-Israel advisors at the White House - and there has been no other kinds of Middle East advisors at the White House since the Clinton administration - feed him, that "too many leaders in the region tried to direct their people's grievances elsewhere. The West was blamed as the source of all ills, a half-century after the end of colonialism. Antagonism toward Israel became the only acceptable outlet for political expression," to which leaders is he actually referring? Sadat, Mubarak, Ben Ali, Kings Hussein and Abdullah II of Jordan, Kings Hasan II and Muhammad VI of Morocco, President Bouteflika, any of the Gulf monarchs or the two Hariri prime ministers, Rafiq and Saad?

    Not only are such lies not believable to anyone in the wider world, but also, were the US administration to believe them, explain the ongoing foreign policy failures in a region the US insists on dominating - but which it refuses to learn much about.



    Emperor Obama vs the Arab people

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    With all the Israel bashing on Ron Paul Forums, I figured I'd point out Ron Paul's view on Israel.
    The founding fathers' view would be that Israel, Iran, Syria, Libya, Great Britain, France, China, Russia and any other nation you can think of should be our "close friend".

    "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." ~ Thomas Jefferson
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    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

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  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    Ron Paul’s stance to end all foreign aid across the board and overall non-interventionist position and record on US relations with other countries, is clearly superior to all other Republican candidates.

    However, in his book "Liberty Defined", the chapter “Zionism” contains very flawed thinking and history, and is significantly at odds with libertarian principles. When the book first came out, much of that chapter was available online at Amazon.com, which is where I read it. That chapter is no longer available there, and I don’t yet own the book, so I unfortunately can’t quote from it here. Israel isn’t remotely a friend of libertarian principles, or Liberty, if that is approximately what one means by Liberty.

    To start with in the chapter, as I recall, he shows the belief in the diaspora myth, that the Israelites of 2000 years ago are the same people as those who identify themselves today as Jews; and he justifies a property rights claim by this.
    Following up with the above post, in the chapter "Zionism" of Ron Paul’s “Liberty Defined”, he writes the following:

    There is no doubt that Jews have a historic claim on the land itself. The Bar Kochba revolt in AD 135 against' the Roman Empire prompted a large number of Jews to be exiled from the area now known as Israel. Some historians report that the Jewish population of 300,000 was further reduced to a thousand families during the Christian Crusades in the Holy Lands.
    This is Zionist fiction. Those who call themselves Jews today are not an ethnic block with lineage back to the territory of historic Palestine 2,000 years ago.

    He also writes:
    From the 1890s until 1948, when Israel became a sovereign nation carved out of Palestine, immigration was mostly voluntary, gradual, and accomplished with due respect for existing land titles. Zionism, during the first forty years of this movement, was not about taking land by force nor was it about militarism.
    This is grade A Zionist fiction. One can start with the many words and observations of Jewish Russian Ahad Ha'Am here.

    Then there’s Attorney Stephen Halbrook’s well sourced article titled “The Alienation of a Homeland: How Palestine Became Israel*", published in the The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. V, No. 4 (Fall 1981), that lays out in detail what really happened. It begins with the following:
    “Attorney Stephen Halbrook traces the origins of Palestinian displacement from their homeland to the organized band of robbers known as the Ottoman Empire who presumed to transfer title to land long inhabited by Palestinians to absentee Arab and Turkish landlords. These State-enforced titles were in turn transferred to Zionist organizations who were in turn backed by organized bands of Zionist terrorists—the earliest manifestations of the statelet of Israel.”
    There’s also the ruthless Special Night Squads led by psychopath British Officer Orde Wingate in 1938-39, to put down any Palestinian resistance to the ongoing Zionist land theft and intended takeover of Palestine.

    The Special Night Squads were a joint British-Jewish counter-insurgency unit, established by Captain Orde Wingate in Palestine in 1938, during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt. The SNS comprised British infantry soldiers and Jewish Supernumerary Police. Wingate hand-picked his men, among them Yigal Allon and Moshe Dayan, and trained them to form mobile ambushes...
    Ron Paul also writes:
    A continual peaceful transformation would probably have occurred except for the political actions after World War II in which the United Nations turned a local and demographic issue into an international and highly politicized one.
    This is just nonsense. The Zionist movement, from the beginning and throughout, has been an international and political movement, never local; and the few Palestinan Jews that there were in Palestine, opposed Zionism. In 1947, Jews, comprising around a third of the population, virtually all recent arrivals from Eastern Europe, held around 6 percent of the land of Palestine (largely acquired by force through the use of absentee landowners). Then, using largely British and US military weapons, they ruthlessly drove most of the Palestinian population off the land they had lived on for centuries or more, and destroyed hundreds of villages. It’s well documented that the Zionist treatment of the Palestinians, over 100 years now, has been antithetical to everything libertarian principles (or Liberty) are about. Ron Paul's way off the mark on this subject.

    There’s also Murray Rothbards article on the subject.
    Last edited by robert68; 09-15-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  7. #96
    How can a government be someone's friend? Also, who among us got to make the decision for every American that Israel is our friend? I know I was never consulted on the matter, and I'll bet most folks on these forums weren't either. We don't even get to choose our friends anymore?
    Last edited by BuddyRey; 06-01-2011 at 04:50 PM.
    "When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system's game. The establishment will irritate you - pull your beard, flick your face - to make you fight, because once they've got you violent then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humor. "

    ---John Lennon


    "I EAT NEOCONS FOR BREAKFAST!!!"

    ---Me



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  9. #97
    Ron Paul likes Israel. bump.
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    How can a government be someone's friend? Also, who among us got to make the decision for every American that Israel is our friend? I know I was never consulted on the matter, and I'll bet most folks on these forums weren't either. We don't even get to choose our friends anymore?
    Depends how you define "Israel" and "our".


  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Depends how you define "Israel" and "our".
    It depends on what the meaning of the word Is is.


    Last edited by pcosmar; 06-02-2011 at 12:39 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    Israel is our close friend.
    Ron Paul's first lie.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Ron Paul's first lie.
    You're calling Ron Paul a liar? Why?
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  14. #102
    My priorities for selecting a candidate: Cut the debt, repeal Obama care and support of Israel. This website has Ron Paul's name on it. I can not support a candidate that allows this antisemitic dribble. Who are our friends in the Middle East? Hezbollah, Hamas or maybe the muslim brotherhood? Israel is our only friend in the Middle East and the only one that deserves our help and compassion.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    My priorities for selecting a candidate: Cut the debt, repeal Obama care and support of Israel. This website has Ron Paul's name on it. I can not support a candidate that allows this antisemitic dribble. Who are our friends in the Middle East? Hezbollah, Hamas or maybe the muslim brotherhood? Israel is our only friend in the Middle East and the only one that deserves our help and compassion.
    Ron Paul wants to stop all foreign aid, how is that antisemitic?

    As for Ron allowing some kind of "antisemitic dribble", if you were to ask Ron to tell someone to stop doing something, he would respond by saying, "I can't stop them from doing it. They are free to do as they please."

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    My priorities for selecting a candidate: Cut the debt, repeal Obama care and support of Israel. This website has Ron Paul's name on it. I can not support a candidate that allows this antisemitic dribble. Who are our friends in the Middle East? Hezbollah, Hamas or maybe the muslim brotherhood? Israel is our only friend in the Middle East and the only one that deserves our help and compassion.
    Try learning what semitism is before you make these sort of absurd statements, plz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  18. #105
    Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." I fully understand what it means. Thankfully, there is an awakening among Christians in this country. Obama has already alienated the Jewish population. We need a President that supports Israel.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." I fully understand what it means. Thankfully, there is an awakening among Christians in this country. Obama has already alienated the Jewish population. We need a President that supports Israel.
    The President can support Israel without sending them money.

  20. #107
    Yes, the President can support Israel without sending money. We shouldn't send any money to the Middle East. Israel is the only country that we should sell arms. We should give them anything that they need including the new stealth fighters.

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Yes, the President can support Israel without sending money. We shouldn't send any money to the Middle East. Israel is the only country that we should sell arms. We should give them anything that they need including the new stealth fighters.
    we should SELL (not give) them anything they need; and the USA govt should not be involved, it should be a deal between the manufacturer and the IDF. but if Haliburton or GE wish to give them free weapons I'm ok with that.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    This website has Ron Paul's name on it.
    In case you have a hard time reading:

    RonPaulForums.com / LibertyForest.com is a grassroots web site with absolutely no official connection to Ron Paul, the Ron Paul 2012 presidential campaign, the Campaign For Liberty or any other election campaign.
    The opinions of some members has absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul. And if you don't like freedom of speech, you're probably supporting the wrong candidate. Try Obama if you like censorship.

    Israel is the only country that we should sell arms. We should give them anything that they need including the new stealth fighters.
    Or we could just not sell arms to anyone and not be a bunch of war mongers. Novel idea there.
    Last edited by AZKing; 06-03-2011 at 06:13 PM.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." I fully understand what it means. Thankfully, there is an awakening among Christians in this country. Obama has already alienated the Jewish population. We need a President that supports Israel.
    Anti-semitism is a hatred towards semities. There are numerous types of semites. (Ironically, most of the Israeli-firsters are vehemently anti-semitic) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Semitic_peoples Clearly, you don't understand what anti-semitism is. You only understand one of the definitions of it.

    If "supports Israel" means avoiding entangling alliances with the Israelis and end welfare to them, yes we do need a president who would do that.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 06-03-2011 at 06:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    we should SELL (not give) them anything they need; and the USA govt should not be involved, it should be a deal between the manufacturer and the IDF. but if Haliburton or GE wish to give them free weapons I'm ok with that.
    Weapons are and should be regulated. The government should not allow any weapons to Middle Eastern countries with the exception of Israel. Haliburton doesn't produce weapons. I believe that GE might produce components for weapons.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Weapons are and should be regulated. The government should not allow any weapons to Middle Eastern countries with the exception of Israel. Haliburton doesn't produce weapons. I believe that GE might produce components for weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Weapons are and should be regulated. The government should not allow any weapons to Middle Eastern countries with the exception of Israel. Haliburton doesn't produce weapons. I believe that GE might produce components for weapons.
    Are you sure you don't like Obamacare? You sound pretty liberal to me.

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    Weapons are and should be regulated.
    My first inclination is to think, "How can anyone possibly believe this?" But then I remember that I used to believe it.

    Edit: For what it's worth ddavis, I'm with you on how off-putting the blatant anti-semitism of some RP supporters is. It boggles the mind that they don't see how they come across to people looking into RP. I hope you let him speak for himself and give him an honest chance.
    Last edited by erowe1; 06-03-2011 at 06:42 PM.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Anti-semitism is a hatred towards semities. There are numerous types of semites. (Ironically, most of the Israeli-firsters are vehemently anti-semitic) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Semitic_peoples Clearly, you don't understand what anti-semitism is. You only understand one of the definitions of it.

    If "supports Israel" means avoiding entangling alliances with the Israelis and end welfare to them, yes we do need a president who would do that.
    No, I mean to totally support them. The Palestinians plan to attack their borders from all sides, in the next few days. If the IDF stacks Palestinians up like cords of wood, we support them. We defend them to the world.

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    We defend them to the world.
    With my money? No thanks.

    You're welcome to send them your money, though. You can even go and volunteer with your own weapons if you want! I won't stop you.

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by AZKing View Post
    Are you sure you don't like Obamacare? You sound pretty liberal to me.
    What I said was current law and the obvious.

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by AZKing View Post
    With my money? No thanks.

    You're welcome to send them your money, though. You can even go and volunteer with your own weapons if you want! I won't stop you.
    I do contribute. In the early seventies, after my discharge from the Army, I went to Lebanon to train one the Christian militias. I don't think that the IDF needs the help of an old man.

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavis View Post
    I do contribute. In the early seventies, after my discharge from the Army, I went to Lebanon to train one the Christian militias. I don't think that the IDF needs the help of an old man.
    Well, I'm all about freedom. You're free to give your aid to Israel in any way shape or form and I'm also free to keep my money Support 'em all you want, just not with the tax money that got taken away from me at threat of going to prison.

  34. #120
    AZKing, I understand. I feel the same way when I see tax money going to groups like ACORN or Planned Parenthood.



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