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Thread: Ron Paul: Israel is Our Close Friend

  1. #151

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    Bump.

    I just had a Mitt Romney supporter tell me that Ron Paul is anti-Israel.
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  3. #152

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    Its odd to me that most think Israel uses the Us as there attack dog,when i see it as the opposite.To me our foreign aid and military support sets up Israel to become beholden to America's intrests. I would rather Israel be able to govern as they see fit and not have the Us constantly try to dictate how they will run there affairs.

    I also see America putting them in a bad spot to where we mess around in the middle east to protect our interests in there oil,which then entices the middle east to retaliate against whatever represents American influence and that would be most easily seen as Israel

  4. #153

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    Thank you for sharing this.
    I regard human relationships as fractals ... common denominators whether differences are on an individual or national scale.

    Israel vs Palestine :: two drunk college guys getting heated. The more they drink the more their threats come closer to actual violence.

    The United States has a choice :: drink up and pick a side. Close the fist and punch whoever you stand against, irregardless of the brawl that would ensue.
    --or-- keep the palms open and stand between them "Guys, c'mon. Go drink some beer, have a good time tonight, we'll work out the differences in the morning. You can go fight on the front lawn if you need to, but if anyone pulls a knife or somethin' I'm kickin' BOTH your asses."

    More or less

  5. #154

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    Yeah great friends,USS Liberty,Jonathan pollard and they probably knew 9/11 would happen without telling us.I will take Hamas,Hezbolla and the Muslim Brotherhood any day.Just because the T.V. says they are our best allies doesn't mean it's true.

  6. #155

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    Your a wonderful Human Being.If you say anything slightly negative about Israel you are a Rabid Anti-Semite according to you.But It's fine for you to spew hatred about people you know nothing about.Less prosperous?maybe because they don't suck on the teet of another country.As far as ignorant,uneducated and backward I find those traits more palatable then belligerent,manipulative and predatory.Yeah,Anti- Semite I know

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by getch36 View Post
    Yeah great friends,USS Liberty,Jonathan pollard and they probably knew 9/11 would happen without telling us.I will take Hamas,Hezbolla and the Muslim Brotherhood any day.Just because the T.V. says they are our best allies doesn't mean it's true.
    Ron Paul said it, not I. Just remember that.
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  8. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Bump.

    I just had a Mitt Romney supporter tell me that Ron Paul is anti-Israel.
    I had people tell me Romney was the only Christian in the race. (when Ron was still in the race)

    People can be really stupid.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #158
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    I dont understand this ridiculous Israel bashing. We should be neutral and unsolved. Attacking Israel and supporting its enemies isnt better than the current situation. We need to be impartial, Israel is a sovereign state they should do as they please.

  10. #159

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    Israel is a sovereign state they should do as they please.
    Fine, let them do it with their own money and let's drop all the foreign aid.

    And whether "Israel" is a state at all is something that we have no business deciding. It's a regional issue that should be resolved by Palestinians and their neighbors. I doubt the vast majority of the world would shed a tear if "Israel" went back to being what it was before 1948.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    Fine, let them do it with their own money and let's drop all the foreign aid.

    And whether "Israel" is a state at all is something that we have no business deciding. It's a regional issue that should be resolved by Palestinians and their neighbors. I doubt the vast majority of the world would shed a tear if "Israel" went back to being what it was before 1948.
    Again im not for any aid or support to Israel but simply doing the opposite by attacking it, supporting its enemies, delegitimizing it etc. is not better and is contrary to libertarian foreign policy principles.

  12. #161

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    Again im not for any aid or support to Israel but simply doing the opposite by attacking it, supporting its enemies, delegitimizing it etc. is not better and is contrary to libertarian foreign policy principles.
    Zionism correlates almost 100% with a breakdown of logic & reason. I'll demonstrate that here. The opposite of giving aid to Israel is to not give aid to Israel. Discussing Israel's legitimacy is entirely within the scope of libertarian principles. The legitimacy of all governments is suspect within libertarian frameworks.

    You're also implying that somehow not supporting Israel supports its enemies. How can bringing up arguments against Israel's legitimacy support Israel's enemies unless those arguments are correct? Discussing and bringing up arguments supports nothing unless such arguments are correct. Again, irrational Zionists are terrified of free conversations.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    + Rep.
    Thank you.
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  14. #163
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Shit, FrankRep...you just can't stand it.... (that +rep was from 2011, any excuse to start another fight)

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Shit, FrankRep...you just can't stand it.... (that +rep was from 2011, any excuse to start another fight)
    Hell, at least it's not another Glenn Beck mirage.

    Israel should have no place in lobbying our Congress to do their bidding. We should have no place in dictating to Israel how they handle their disputes.

    It's really that simple. Oh, and we definitely shouldn't be giving them billions a year or anyone else foreign aid for that matter. What was is, something like $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in Israel? [I can't remember the specific number, but it was around there]

    An attack on Israel is not an attack on the United States. An attack on Israel is an attack on Israel. No matter who the hell thinks they are a chosen people.

  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailingaway View Post
    Oh, come on, you make it sound like that is the predominant theme. Most here are noninterventionist, across the board, and consider Israel an ally, but also a focus for trouble for us, since we tend to do idiotic things around that relationship. A couple or few, max are 'anti-Israel'.
    No, it's been confirmed that 62% here are anti Israel.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...n-Israel/page7
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  17. #166
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Hell, at least it's not another Glenn Beck mirage.

    Israel should have no place in lobbying our Congress to do their bidding. We should have no place in dictating to Israel how they handle their disputes.

    It's really that simple. Oh, and we definitely shouldn't be giving them billions a year or anyone else foreign aid for that matter. What was is, something like $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in Israel? [I can't remember the specific number, but it was around there]

    An attack on Israel is not an attack on the United States. An attack on Israel is an attack on Israel. No matter who the hell thinks they are a chosen people.
    The problem as I see it, is that we have already armed Israel "to the teeth", maybe we should be somewhat responsible about that. It's all fair and well for Israeli supporters to want to "stay out of their business" after giving them the upper hand.

    And, I understand why many Christians support Israel. They don't understand that the state of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel mentioned in the bible, reguardless of whether any of that in the bible is true or not.

    edit: Oh, and Traditional Conservative, I didn't vote in that poll and there are probably others that didn't.
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 02-24-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    No, it's been confirmed that 62% here are anti Israel.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...n-Israel/page7
    Those polls are such a tiny percent of the people who come here they are completely invalid. Self selected polls are not statistically reliable, by definition.

    And 'anti' itself is such a vague word. I have nothing against Israel, but I get pretty irritated when people think we need to treat them like the 51st state -- or the first state. I think we get in a lot of wars supported by the public only because Israel is involved. I am not against them, but I am starting to get a sort of impatient feeling about them, like if the friend you go out with habitually gets you pulled into trouble with them.

    Having said that, they are an 'ally' and I recognize that.

    I just don't think they should be the cornerstone of our foreign policy they seem to be, to our detriment.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailingaway View Post
    Those polls are such a tiny percent of the people who come here they are completely invalid. Self selected polls are not statistically reliable, by definition.

    And 'anti' itself is such a vague word. I have nothing against Israel, but I get pretty irritated when people think we need to treat them like the 51st state -- or the first state. I think we get in a lot of wars supported by the public only because Israel is involved. I am not against them, but I am starting to get a sort of impatient feeling about them, like if the friend you go out with habitually gets you pulled into trouble with them.

    Having said that, they are an 'ally' and I recognize that.

    I just don't think they should be the cornerstone of our foreign policy they seem to be, to our detriment.
    I still haven't seen any evidence that the Iraq War ever had anything to do with Israel. I don't recall the Israeli government ever pushing us to start that war. I certainly don't know what war Israel has pushed us into in the past. They may be trying to push us into a war with Iran, but that hasn't happened yet.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I still haven't seen any evidence that the Iraq War ever had anything to do with Israel. I don't recall the Israeli government ever pushing us to start that war. I certainly don't know what war Israel has pushed us into in the past. They may be trying to push us into a war with Iran, but that hasn't happened yet.
    I remember stuff before Iraq, and they didn't send soldiers because it would be polarizing.... but I'm not saying everything we do is about them. I am saying neocons USE the RHETORIC of 'for Isreal' to justify what they do, and it gets results amongst evangelicals.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  21. #170

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    The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giuliani was there on 911 View Post
    He's a Zionist ass kisser. That's why he's voting against Hagel.
    Last edited by FrankRep; 02-24-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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  22. #171
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.
    Define "anti-semitism" (as you are using it).

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.
    If that fake image concerns you why do you keep picking fights about this?
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  24. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    The problem as I see it, is that we have already armed Israel "to the teeth", maybe we should be somewhat responsible about that. It's all fair and well for Israeli supporters to want to "stay out of their business" after giving them the upper hand.
    Very true. Never forget, 'they' hate us for our freedom.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    And, I understand why many Christians support Israel. They don't understand that the state of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel mentioned in the bible, reguardless of whether any of that in the bible is true or not.
    This annoys me to no end. Supposed christians all the more willing to send someone else's kids to die for a country of supposed 'chosen people.' That's the thing that gets me. Chickenhawks have no problem drumming up support for these illegal wars.

    As sailingaway said in one of her posts I am getting impatient. I have nothing against the people of Israel, as a collective, but this idea that they should have our unwaivering support is fucking sickening. Even members here seem to feel we are justified or even obligated to defend Israel when they do the kind of shit they do. I'm getting tired of this. And I am not of the politically correct, fear of being branded, republicrats. Soon it will be simply 'f*** Israel' whenever the topic arrives.

    Sad day on RPF when people are unaware of the war crimes that that State has committed, the problems they have created, and the shit they constantly stir.
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 02-24-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  25. #174

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    "Keep your friends close, Keep your enemies even closer"

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailingaway View Post
    If that fake image concerns you why do you keep picking fights about this?
    Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.
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    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  27. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.
    You aren't defending it, you are setting it up as a punching bag, the way you bait people.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  28. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Even members here seem to feel we are justified or even obligated to defend Israel when they do the kind of shit they do.
    Or they just think that it's none of our business, since part of non interventionism is staying out of the internal affairs of other nations.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  29. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.
    Supportive of them leaving our politics the fuck alone, and supportive in the sense of them being independent. Spin it how you wish, Israel would be better off because of this.

    I am supportive of Israel as well. [them being independent]

  30. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Or they just think that it's none of our business, since part of non interventionism is staying out of the internal affairs of other nations.
    Traditional Conservative- Kind of like the holocaust?
    I still fail to understand how one atrocity being committed against a certain group of people is relevant to their government committing atrocities against another group of people. Or rather, how that excuses it, as you defensively seemed to suggest.

  31. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I still fail to understand how one atrocity being committed against a certain group of people is relevant to their government committing atrocities against another group of people. Or rather, how that excuses it, as you defensively seemed to suggest.
    I don't accept the premise of your statement that Israel has committed "atrocities" against anyone.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

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