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Thread: Anti-Illegal Immigration Group Awards an "F" to Ron Paul

  1. #1

    Anti-Illegal Immigration Group Awards an "F" to Ron Paul

    Disclaimer: This article is Defending Ron Paul.





    NumbersUSA awarded Ron Paul a failing grade for his constitutionalist stance on illegal immigration, because of his libertarian approach to the problem.


    Anti-Illegal Immigration Group Awards an "F" to Ron Paul


    Joe Wolverton, II | The New American
    09 May 2011


    With news coming from the major media outlets that Ron Paul of Texas has the best chance of defeating President Barack Obama in 2012, it is not surprising that his back is now a canvas for painting a multitude of targets.

    One of the groups taking aim at Congressman Paul is the immigration policy lobby, NumbersUSA. NumbersUSA is an organization devoted to legislatively reducing the allowed level of annual immigration to pre-1965 levels, without country of origin quotas that were created by the Immigration Act of 1924.

    The NumbersUSA article describes Dr. Paul’s record on immigration as “mixed,” obviously intending that designation as an indictment of the Texas congressman.

    In the group’s 2012 Presidential Hopefuls Immigration Stances Report Card, Ron Paul was awarded a failing grade: an F. He was previously given a more respectable (though below average) C- and likely would have seen his marks improve were it not for Representative Paul’s “latest comments on immigration” and that they display “not just some ad hoc thoughts tossed off carelessly at some speaking event. These are engraved in a brand new book.”

    The book wherein Dr. Paul lays out the details of his “mixed” immigration philosophy is entitled Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues that Affect Our Freedom.” In the chapter on immigration, Paul begins by describing the “ideal libertarian world,” wherein “borders would be blurred and open.”

    In his inimitable fashion, Dr. Paul then goes on to provide a nuanced realpolitik analysis of the issue that apparently went unread by the NumbersUSA crew.

    For example, in the explanation of his position on immigration, legal and illegal, Dr. Paul admits that the creation of a perfect libertarian world is impossible in a country such as the United States where the government has created a welfare state that is forced by government-initiated cycles of recession and recovery to abide by rules and regulations that otherwise would be unnecessary and unqualifiedly unconstitutional.

    The nation’s resentment of illegal immigrants and their presence in our country stems from two reasons according to Paul: First, there is the “government-mandated free services” that citizens decry when they are afforded to illegals; second, there is the “government-created unemployment crisis” that leads out-of-work Americans to rightly regard employed illegals as a threat to the economic well-being of citizens and those who came to this country through the proper channels.

    For Congressman Paul, then, the solution is simple and it is similar to the answer to most of the ills plaguing our once mighty Republic: Abolish all extra-constitutional programs, entitlements, and benefits and permit the federal government to exercise only those very limited and specifically enumerated powers that are laid out in the Constitution. In other words, Dr. Paul would recommend treating the disease, not the symptoms.

    Regardless of the logic and constitutional soundness of Ron Paul’s positions, NumbersUSA counts the red flags and sticks by the failing grade. According to the report:


    through just better than Pres. Obama. It is significantly worse than the grade of former Speaker Gingrich who had previously been the worst of all Republican Hopefuls on immigration.


    And:


    But you will find that only one Republican in Congress has a worse grade on border issues than Ron Paul. Furthermore, he has failed to act in every category of immigration during this new Congress.

    His grade on presidential stances is different because it is based not just on what he has done but on what he publicly says he would do as president. As a Member of Congress, he has been able to avoid acting on many immigration issues, thus protecting his grade a little.


    Later in the explanation of why it gave such abysmal marks to Congressman Paul, NumbersUSA says:


    In his book, Dr. Paul sounds very much like supporters of Comprehensive Amnesty measures by talking about the impossibility of sending back home 11 million illegal aliens.

    Like most amnesty supporters who say they oppose "amnesty," Dr. Paul seems to buy the false choice between "legalization" or mass deportation. Since he says mass deportation isn't possible, he feels he has to choose some kind of legalization.


    In fact, that is not at all the position espoused by Paul in his book. Dr. Paul doesn’t feel forced to choose some middle ground. He describes amnesty as “rewarding lawbreakers” and were such a program adopted it would be correctly viewed as “insulting and unfairly penalizing those who have patiently waited and obeyed our immigration laws.”

    In fairness, with regard to the rounding up and deporting of the millions of illegals currently present in the United States, Paul does describe such a plan as “hardly ... a Good Samaritan approach” and “incompatible with human rights.”

    While reasonable people may argue that point, Dr. Paul certainly isn’t cornered into any concession on the matter. Rather, he addresses the issue not from an economic perspective, but from a moral one. This is not the sort of courage one should disdain in presidential hopefuls.

    What then, if neither amnesty nor mass deportation is the answer, should the United States do to address the problem of illegal immigration? Among the various suggestions Dr. Paul proposes are:


    * First, “restore our economy to a healthy free market with sound money and eliminate deficit-financed government.”

    * Next, “abolish the welfare state.”

    * Third, enact a “generous visitor work program,” thus providing a legal immigrant labor force.

    * Fourth, enforce current immigration statutes by deploying more border guards; “permit states to enforce the law”; and “provide private property security assistance.”

    * Fifth, cease awarding automatic citizenship to children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents, so called “anchor babies.”

    * Also, end the “war on drugs.” This unconstitutional exercise of police power only encourages “violence of the drug lords and corrupt officials on both sides.”

    * Finally, any immigrant, regardless of status, who commits a crime of violence “should be prosecuted under the law and lose their right to stay in this country.”


    With all due respect to NumbersUSA and their noble and worthwhile goal of reducing the number of immigrants to this country, the foregoing does not sound like the beliefs of a man who is soft on illegal immigration and who merits a failing grade for his approach to the problem of illegal immigration.

    Perhaps the reason NumbersUSA reacted so harshly to the opinions published by Dr. Paul in his new book is that the position he occupies is so unusual for a modern politician -— one clean of the stain of partisan influence and unbound by the strictures imposed by the mandates of party fealty. A position that is devoid of any paean to government and looks not to the source of the malady for the cure thereof.

    Liberty, unrestrained by government interference and restriction, is the tonic for all of the ills afflicting our body politic. As Dr. Paul so elegantly explained at the conclusion of the chapter on immigration:

    "With the total failure of the welfare state and our foreign policy, it will become more evident that the door is wide open for the solutions that a free society provides."


    SOURCE:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...fq-to-ron-paul
    Last edited by FrankRep; 05-16-2011 at 09:32 AM.
    ----

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  3. #2
    Good read. Numbersusa obviously didnt read past the first paragraph
    Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.

    John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

  4. #3
    I would say Ron Paul deserves an A. If he openly starts supporting the deportation of all illegal aliens and their anchor babies I would give him an A+

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocompromises View Post
    I would say Ron Paul deserves an A. If he openly starts supporting the deportation of all illegal aliens and their anchor babies I would give him an A+
    I would give him a solid B.

    This article much more closely represents his positions than NumbersUSA. Ending birthright citizenship ought to count for more than it does.
    Equality is a false god.

    Armatissimi e Liberissimi

  6. #5
    The only reason we have illegal immigration is because our government has always encouraged it.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nocompromises View Post
    I would say Ron Paul deserves an A. If he openly starts supporting the deportation of all illegal aliens and their anchor babies I would give him an A+
    +1

  8. #7
    Wow...

    TNA is defending Ron Paul and people are hitting me with negatives.
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by nocompromises View Post
    I would say Ron Paul deserves an A. If he openly starts supporting the deportation of all illegal aliens and their anchor babies I would give him an A+
    dittos.

    I do have a problem with NOT referring to a 'generous visitor work program' as a form of AMNESTY. :-/

    Can someone help explain Ron Paul's 'seemingly conflicting' stances on illegal immigration [wrt Tancredo]?

    Also-- I found it interesting that Newt's Red Card papers note that it RELIES on Mexico complying w/ clearing their citizens....yeeeeah.....



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Peek a Boo View Post
    dittos.

    I do have a problem with NOT referring to a 'generous visitor work program' as a form of AMNESTY. :-/

    Can someone help explain Ron Paul's 'seemingly conflicting' stances on illegal immigration [wrt Tancredo]?

    Also-- I found it interesting that Newt's Red Card papers note that it RELIES on Mexico complying w/ clearing their citizens....yeeeeah.....
    Ron does not disparage workers, travel, or trade across borders. He disparages the welfare state.

    Tancredo can take his police state BS and shove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  12. #10
    Also, NumbersUSA is crazy. They want to reduce legal immigration.
    Last edited by Jtorsella; 11-27-2011 at 09:08 PM.

  13. #11
    This is a hit piece. Gingrich has mishandled the issue like Perry, but they don't want people deciding on Paul.

  14. #12
    Perhaps a better name for this piece would be in order? For visitors, that title doesn't sound good. We always have to think of what visitors would be turned onto/off of Ron Paul by.
    Ron Paul is #BringingLibertyBack!

  15. #13
    Dr. Paul is the only one who, beyond making any sense, has a humanitarian stance on immigration. A generous worker program is just the ticket until we can get our house in order and once again receive the poor, downtrodden, masses of the world.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Agorism View Post
    This is a hit piece. Gingrich has mishandled the issue like Perry, but they don't want people deciding on Paul.
    What is a hit piece? Not the article posted by FrankRep; it defends Paul.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 11-30-2011 at 10:59 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  17. #15
    //
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 11-30-2011 at 11:01 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtorsella View Post
    Also, NumbersUSA is crazy. They want to reduce legal immigration.
    Well, what's the difference between legal and illegal immigration, besides arbitrary legality? Is there a difference between legal and illegal drug use? How about gun ownership?

    The lower these guys rate Paul the better. I'd like to see him go back to his open borders stance of 1988.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Inny Binny View Post
    Well, what's the difference between legal and illegal immigration, besides arbitrary legality? Is there a difference between legal and illegal drug use? How about gun ownership?

    The lower these guys rate Paul the better. I'd like to see him go back to his open borders stance of 1988.
    However, Inny, most Republicans see it much differently than you do and that includes Ron Paul. Paul also cares deeply about national sovereignty and a border is part of that.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtorsella View Post
    Also, NumbersUSA is crazy. They want to reduce legal immigration.
    Yep. Whereas I want to increase it dramatically. We wouldn't have nearly so much illegal immigration if we had a process that any peaceful person could follow.

  22. #19
    NumbersUSA is not anti-illegal immigration, they're anti-all immigration.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Inny Binny View Post
    Well, what's the difference between legal and illegal immigration, besides arbitrary legality? Is there a difference between legal and illegal drug use? How about gun ownership?

    The lower these guys rate Paul the better. I'd like to see him go back to his open borders stance of 1988.


    @57:45

    Ron Paul: ... in an ideal society - and there are many libertarians who would argue that case - I don't think we're in the condition where that would work very well right now, even though I recognize that as something we might well strive for.

    In reference to the open travel of immigration, labor, and goods across American borders. About twenty seconds later, he says, verbatim, "that is something we should strive for," and "I don't see any reason to not work in that direction".

    He also talked similarly in the Motorhome Diaries interview, answering the question on the interviewer's grounds.
    Last edited by Feeding the Abscess; 12-01-2011 at 09:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Inny Binny View Post
    Well, what's the difference between legal and illegal immigration, besides arbitrary legality? Is there a difference between legal and illegal drug use? How about gun ownership?

    The lower these guys rate Paul the better. I'd like to see him go back to his open borders stance of 1988.
    First, let's address this "illegal" immigration nonsense once and for all:

    It is not illegal to enter the United States nor be in the United States without papers. It is a civil violation of the law, not a crime and is controlled by civil statutes in Title 8 of the United States Code. To call someone an "illegal" alien is a misnomer AND it is antithetical to the fundamental principles of Freedom and Liberty.

    My second point is one already made on this board. There are no statutes to abide by wherein many people can come to the United States and work a job. Jobs belong to the employer that creates them. One need not be a citizen in order to work a job willingly offered. So, we desperately need a Guest Worker program.

    Finally, NumbersUSA is one of many non-profit entities started by John Tanton. Tanton is, always has been and probably always be affiliated with the racist right. Unfortunately, most of the research done to expose Tanton comes from the extreme left, so nobody cares for the truth, but here it is, just for your consideration:

    http://www.splcenter.org/publication...ivist-movement

    So little is available about the subject of immigration, so the xenophobes seem to have a stranglehold on the subject, having the power to destroy anyone that would question the status quo. Hopefully, Ron Paul will stand up for what is right on this issue and not let the racists goad him into supporting a Police State under the presupposition that a militarized border makes us a nation.



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