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Thread: John Calvin: The Founder Of America

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    John Calvin: The Founder Of America

    John Calvin: The Founder of America



    When we come to study the influence of Calvinism as a political force in the history of the United States we come to one of the brightest pages of all Calvinistic history. Calvinism came to America in the Mayflower, and Bancroft, the greatest of American historians, pronounces the Pilgrim Fathers "Calvinists in their faith according to the straightest system."

    John Endicott, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony; John Winthrop, the second governor of that Colony; Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut; John Davenport, the founder of the New Haven Colony; and Roger Williams, the founder of the Rhode Island Colony, were all Calvinists. William Penn was a disciple of the Huguenots.

    It is estimated that of the 3,000,000 Americans at the time of the American Revolution, 900,000 were of Scotch or Scotch-Irish origin, 600,000 were Puritan English, and 400,000 were German or Dutch Reformed. In addition to this the Episcopalians had a Calvinistic confession in their Thirty-nine Articles; and many French Huguenots also had come to this western world. Thus we see that about two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the school of Calvin. Never in the world's history had a nation been founded by such people as these.

    Furthermore these people came to America not primarily for commercial gain or advantage, but because of deep religious convictions. It seems that the religious persecutions in various European countries had been providentially used to select out the most progressive and enlightened people for the colonization of America. At any rate it is quite generally admitted that the English, Scotch, Germans, and Dutch have been the most masterful people of Europe.

    Let it be especially remembered that the Puritans, who formed the great bulk of the settlers in New England, brought with them a Calvinistic Protestantism, that they were truly devoted to the doctrines of the great Reformers, that they had an aversion for formalism and oppression whether in the Church or in the State, and that in New England Calvinism remained the ruling theology throughout the entire Colonial period.

    With this background we shall not be surprised to find that the Presbyterians took a very prominent part in the American Revolution. Our own historian Bancroft says: "The Revolution of 1776, so far as it was affected by religion, was a Presbyterian measure. It was the natural outgrowth of the principles which the Presbyterianism of the Old World planted in her sons, the English Puritans, the Scotch Covenanters, the French Huguenots, the Dutch Calvinists, and the Presbyterians of Ulster." So intense, universal, and aggressive were the Presbyterians in their zeal for liberty that the war was spoken of in England as "The Presbyterian Rebellion."

    An ardent colonial supporter of King George III wrote home: "I fix all the blame for these extraordinary proceedings upon the Presbyterians. They have been the chief and principal instruments in all these flaming measures. They always do and ever will act against government from that restless and turbulent anti-monarchial spirit which has always distinguished them everywhere."

    When the news of "these extraordinary proceedings" reached England, Prime Minister Horace Walpole said in Parliament, "Cousin America has run off with a Presbyterian parson" (John Witherspoon, president of Princeton, signer of Declaration of Independence).

    History is eloquent in declaring that American democracy was born of Christianity and that that Christianity was Calvinism. The great Revolutionary conflict which resulted in the formation of the American nation, was carried out mainly by Calvinists, many of whom had been trained in the rigidly Presbyterian College at Princeton, and this nation is their gift to all liberty loving people.

    J. R. Sizoo tells us: "When Cornwallis was driven back to ultimate retreat and surrender at Yorktown, all of the colonels of the Colonial Army but one were Presbyterian elders. More than one-half of all the soldiers and officers of the American Army during the Revolution were Presbyterians."

    The testimony of Emilio Castelar, the famous Spanish statesman, orator and scholar, is interesting and valuable. Castelar had been professor of Philosophy in the University of Madrid before he entered politics, and he was made president of the republic which was set up by the Liberals in 1873. As a Roman Catholic he hated Calvin and Calvinism. Says he: "It was necessary for the republican movement that there should come a morality more austere than Luther's, the morality of Calvin, and a Church more democratic than the German, the Church of Geneva. The Anglo-Saxon democracy has for its lineage a book of a primitive society — the Bible. It is the product of a severe theology learned by the few Christian fugitives in the gloomy cities of Holland and Switzerland, where the morose shade of Calvin still wanders . . . And it remains serenely in its grandeur, forming the most dignified, most moral and most enlightened portion of the human race."

    Says Motley: "In England the seeds of liberty, wrapped up in Calvinism and hoarded through many trying years, were at last destined to float over land and sea, and to bear the largest harvests of temperate freedom for great commonwealths that were still unborn. "The Calvinists founded the commonwealths of England, of Holland, and America." And again, "To Calvinists more than to any other class of men, the political liberties of England, Holland and America are due."

    The testimony of another famous historian, the Frenchman Taine, who himself held no religious faith, is worthy of consideration. Concerning the Calvinists he said: "These men are the true heroes of England. They founded England, in spite of the corruption of the Stuarts, by the exercise of duty, by the practice of justice, by obstinate toil, by vindication of right, by resistance to oppression, by the conquest of liberty, by the repression of vice. They founded Scotland; they founded the United States; at this day they are, by their descendants, founding Australia and colonizing the world."

    In his book, "The Creed of Presbyterians," E. W. Smith asks concerning the American colonists, "Where learned they those immortal principles of the rights of man, of human liberty, equality and self-government, on which they based their Republic, and which form today the distinctive glory of our American civilization ? In the school of Calvin they learned them. There the modern world learned them. So history teaches," (p. 121).

    We shall now pass on to consider the influence which the Presbyterian Church as a Church exerted in the formation of the Republic. "The Presbyterian Church," said Dr. W. H. Roberts in an address before the General Assembly, "was for three-quarters of a century the sole representative upon this continent of republican government as now organized in the nation." And then he continues: "From 1706 to the opening of the revolutionary struggle the only body in existence which stood for our present national political organization was the General Synod of the American Presbyterian Church. It alone among ecclesiastical and political colonial organizations exercised authority, derived from the colonists themselves, over bodies of Americans scattered through all the colonies from New England to Georgia. The colonies in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, it is to be remembered, while all dependent upon Great Britain, were independent of each other. Such a body as the Continental Congress did not exist until 1774. The religious condition of the country was similar to the political. The Congregational Churches of New England had no connection with each other, and had no power apart from the civil government. The Episcopal Church was without organization in the colonies, was dependent for support and a ministry on the Established Church of England, and was filled with an intense loyalty to the British monarchy. The Reformed Dutch Church did not become an efficient and independent organization until 1771, and the German Reformed Church did not attain to that condition until 1793. The Baptist Churches were separate organizations, the Methodists were practically unknown, and the Quakers were non-combatants."

    Delegates met every year in the General Synod, and as Dr. Roberts tells us, the Church became "a bond of union and correspondence between large elements in the population of the divided colonies." "Is it any wonder," he continues, "that under its fostering influence the sentiments of true liberty, as well as the tenets of a sound gospel, were preached throughout the territory from Long Island to South Carolina, and that above all a feeling of unity between the Colonies began slowly but surely to assert itself? Too much emphasis cannot be laid, in connection with the origin of the nation, upon the influence of that ecclesiastical republic, which from 1706 to 1774 was the only representative on this continent of fully developed federal republican institutions. The United States of America owes much to that oldest of American Republics, the Presbyterian Church."

    It is, of course, not claimed that the Presbyterian Church was the only source from which sprang the principles upon which this republic is founded, but it is claimed that the principles found in the Westminster Standards were the chief basis for the republic, and that "The Presbyterian Church taught, practiced, and maintained in fulness, first in this land that form of government in accordance with which the Republic has been organized." (Roberts).

    The opening of the Revolutionary struggle found the Presbyterian ministers and churches lined up solidly on the side of the colonists, and Bancroft accredits them with having made the first bold move toward independence. The synod which assembled in Philadelphia in 1775 was the first religious body to declare openly and publicly for a separation from England. It urged the people under its jurisdiction to leave nothing undone that would promote the end in view, and called upon them to pray for the Congress which was then in session.

    The Episcopalian Church was then still united with the Church of England, and it opposed the Revolution. A considerable number of individuals within that Church, however, labored earnestly for independence and gave of their wealth and influence to secure it. It is to be remembered also that the Commander-in-Chief of the American armies, "the father of our country," was a member of her household. Washington himself attended, and ordered all of his men to attend the services of his chaplains, who were clergymen from the various churches. He gave forty thousand dollars to establish a Presbyterian College in his native state, which took his name in honor of the gift and became Washington College.

    N. S. McFetridge has thrown light upon another major development of the Revolutionary period. For the sake of accuracy and completeness we shall take the privilege of quoting him rather extensively. "Another important factor in the independent movement," says he, "was what is known as the 'Mecklenburg Declaration,' proclaimed by the Scotch-Irish Presbyterians of North Carolina, May 20, 1775, more than a year before the Declaration (of Independence) of Congress. It was the fresh, hearty greeting of the Scotch-Irish to their struggling brethren in the North, and their bold challenge to the power of England. They had been keenly watching the progress of the contest between the colonies and the Crown, and when they heard of the address presented by the Congress to the King, declaring the colonies in actual rebellion, they deemed it time for patriots to speak. Accordingly, they called a representative body together in Charlotte, N. C., which by unanimous resolution declared the people free and independent, and that all laws and commissions from the king were henceforth null and void. In their Declaration were such resolutions as these: 'We do hereby dissolve the political bands which have connected us with the mother-country, and hereby absolve ourselves from all allegiance to the British crown' .... 'We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no power other than that of our God and the general government of Congress; to the maintenance of which we solemnly pledge to each other our mutual cooperation and our lives, our fortunes and our most sacred honor.' ... That assembly was composed of twenty-seven staunch Calvinists, just one-third of whom were ruling elders in the Presbyterian Church, including the president and secretary; and one was a Presbyterian clergyman. The man who drew up that famous and important document was the secretary, Ephraim Brevard, a ruling elder of the Presbyterian Church and a graduate of Princeton College. Bancroft says of it that it was, 'in effect, a declaration as well as a complete system of government.' (U.S. Hist. VIII, 40). It was sent by special messenger to the Congress in Philadelphia, and was published in the Cape Fear Mercury, and was widely distributed throughout the land. Of course it was speedily transmitted to England, where it became the cause of intense excitement.

    "The identity of sentiment and similarity of expression in this Declaration and the great Declaration written by Jefferson could not escape the eye of the historian; hence Tucker, in his Life of Jefferson, says: 'Everyone must be persuaded that one of these papers must have been borrowed from the other.' But it is certain that Brevard could not have 'borrowed' from Jefferson, for he wrote more than a year before Jefferson; hence Jefferson, according to his biographer, must have 'borrowed' from Brevard. But it was a happy plagiarism, for which the world will freely forgive him. In correcting his first draft of the Declaration it can be seen, in at least a few places, that Jefferson has erased the original words and inserted those which are first found in the Mecklenberg Declaration. No one can doubt that Jefferson had Brevard's resolutions before him when he was writing his immortal Declaration."

    This striking similarity between the principles set forth in the Form of Government of the Presbyterian Church and those set forth in the Constitution of the United States has caused much comment. "When the fathers of our Republic sat down to frame a system of representative and popular government," says Dr. E. W. Smith, "their task was not so difficult as some have imagined. They had a model to work by."

    "If the average American citizen were asked, who was the founder of America, the true author of our great Republic, he might be puzzled to answer. We can imagine his amazement at hearing the answer given to this question by the famous German historian, Ranke, one of the profoundest scholars of modern times. Says Ranke, 'John Calvin was the virtual founder of America.'"

    D'Aubigne, whose history of the Reformation is a classic, writes: "Calvin was the founder of the greatest of republics. The Pilgrims who left their country in the reign of James I, and landing on the barren soil of New England, founded populous and mighty colonies, were his sons, his direct and legitimate sons; and that American nation which we have seen growing so rapidly boasts as its father the humble Reformer on the shore of Lake Leman."

    Dr. E. W. Smith says, "These revolutionary principles of republican liberty and self-government, taught and embodied in the system of Calvin, were brought to America, and in this new land where they have borne so mighty a harvest were planted, by whose hands? — the hands of the Calvinists. The vital relation of Calvin and Calvinism to the founding of the free institutions of America, however strange in some ears the statement of Ranke may have sounded, is recognized and affirmed by historians of all lands and creeds."

    All this has been thoroughly understood and candidly acknowledged by such penetrating and philosophic historians as Bancroft, who far though he was from being Calvinistic in his own personal convictions, simply calls Calvin "the father of America," and adds: "He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty."

    When we remember that two-thirds of the population at the time of the Revolution had been trained in the school of Calvin, and when we remember how unitedly and enthusiastically the Calvinists labored for the cause of independence, we readily see how true are the above testimonies.

    There were practically no Methodists in America at the time of the Revolution; and, in fact, the Methodist Church was not officially organized as such in England until the year 1784, which was three years after the American Revolution closed. John Wesley, great and good man though he was, was a Tory and a believer in political non-resistance. He wrote against the American "rebellion," but accepted the providential result. McFetridge tells us: "The Methodists had hardly a foothold in the colonies when the war began. In 1773 they claimed about one hundred and sixty members. Their ministers were almost all, if not all, from England, and were staunch supporters of the Crown against American Independence. Hence, when the war broke out they were compelled to fly from the country. Their political views were naturally in accord with those of their great leader, John Wesley, who wielded all the power of his eloquence and influence against the independence of the colonies. (Bancroft, Hist. U.S., Vol. VII, p. 261.) He did not foresee that independent America was to be the field on which his noble Church was to reap her largest harvests, and that in that Declaration which he so earnestly opposed lay the security of the liberties of his followers."

    In England and America the great struggles for civil and religious liberty were nursed in Calvinism, inspired by Calvinism, and carried out largely by men who were Calvinists. And because the majority of historians have never made a serious study of Calvinism they have never been able to give us a truthful and complete account of what it has done in these countries. Only the light of historical investigation is needed to show us how our forefathers believed in it and were controlled by it. We live in a day when the services of the Calvinists in the founding of this country have been largely forgotten, and one can hardly treat of this subject without appearing to be a mere eulogizer of Calvinism. We may well do honor to that Creed which has borne such sweet fruits and to which America owes so much[/B].
    http://www.reformed-theology.org/htm...e06/calvin.htm
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 05-10-2011 at 10:19 PM.



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  3. #2
    LOL. It was the enlightenment what allowed this great country to be founded.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by low preference guy View Post
    LOL. It was the enlightenment what allowed this great country to be founded.
    Until you rebut the facts and the historians quoted in the article, I don't have anything really to respond to you with...other than to marvel at how the state-education monopoly has dumbed you down and brainwashed you.

    You just need educate yourself man. Sorry to be so blunt.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Until you rebut the facts and the historians quoted in the article, I don't have anything really to respond to you with...other than to marvel at how the state-education monopoly has dumbed you down and brainwashed you.

    You just need educate yourself man. Sorry to be so blunt.
    Blunt indeed. Thought bluntness was about brevity. But I can be more brief yet less blunt.

    LPG, don't underestimate the man's role in The Enlightenment.
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    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by low preference guy View Post
    LOL. It was the enlightenment what allowed this great country to be founded.
    It was Christian-Rationalist concoction, which is why it has, by all reasonable standards, failed.

    Some Founders were more on the Rationalist end of things (Jefferson and Franklin being the two obvious) and some were on the Christian end of things, Patrick Henry (a Calvinist) and John Adams (not a Calvinist) being on the Christian end. You couldn't have had the American Revolution without popular Christian support (Common Sense is littered with Biblical references), but, at the same time, many of the intellectual movers and shakers of the time were thorough-going Rationalists/Empiricists. So, it's really ignorant to say either were the ultimate in the American Revolution.

    However, as far as the founding of the actual colonies, which is where the founding of our country actually happened, not Independence Hall, Calvinism was the most important factor. The people coming to New England especially were devout Calvinists looking to establish a Christian commonwealth. New York was dominated by Dutch Reformed folks. The Huguenots helped settle South Carolina. The list goes on, and the First Great Awakening still is vitally important to our religious identity.
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    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  7. #6
    BTW, AquaBuddha, I enjoy how the portrait you picked for Calvin was the one that used to be my avatar.
    Last edited by nate895; 05-10-2011 at 10:58 PM.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  8. #7




    "Long before America declared its independence, John Calvin declared and defended principles that birthed liberty in the modern world," noted Doug Phillips, president of Vision Forum Ministries.

    "Scholars both critical and sympathetic of the life and theology of Calvin agree on one thing: that this reformer from Geneva was the father of modern liberty as well as the intellectual founding father of America," he said.

    Phillips pointed out: "Jean Jacques Rousseau, a fellow Genevan who was no friend to Christianity, observed: 'Those who consider Calvin only as a theologian fail to recognize the breadth of his genius. The editing of our wise laws, in which he had a large share, does him as much credit as his Institutes. . . . [S]o long as the love of country and liberty is not extinct amongst us, the memory of this great man will be held in reverence.'"

    He continued: "German historian Leopold von Ranke observed that 'Calvin was virtually the founder of America.' Harvard historian George Bancroft was no less direct with this remark: 'He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty.'

    "John Adams, America's second president, agreed with this sentiment and issued this pointed charge: 'Let not Geneva be forgotten or despised. Religious liberty owes it much respect.'

    "As we celebrate America's Independence this July 4, we would do well to heed John Adams' admonition and show due respect to the memory of John Calvin whose 500th birthday fall six days later," Phillips stated.

    Calvin, a convert to Reformation Christianity born in Noyon, France, on July 10, 1509, is best known for his influence on the city of Geneva, the media release explains.

    "It was there that he modeled many of the principles of liberty later embraced by America's Founders, including anti-statism, the belief in transcendent principles of law as the foundation of an ethical legal system, free market economics, decentralized authority, an educated citizenry as a safeguard against tyranny, and republican representative government which was accountable to the people and a higher law," the release states.
    -Doug Phillips on John Calvin
    http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue6138.html
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 05-11-2011 at 02:20 AM.

  9. #8
    Our forefathers who fought and died for liberty were Calvinists:

    ’ It is a fact that many of the Pilgrims were Calvinists. Pastor John Robinson, the leader of the Pilgrims, was a Calvinist. The Puritans, who came after the Pilgrims, and who formed the great bulk of the settlers in New England, were Calvinists. John Endicott, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony; John Winthrop, the second governor of that Colony; Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut; and John Davenport, the founder of the New Haven Colony, were all Calvinists. It is estimated that at the time of the American Revolution, two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the theology of Calvin. More than one-half of all the soldiers and officers of the American Army during the Revolution were Calvinists. All of the colonels of the Colonial Army except one were Presbyterian elders. The war for Independence was spoken of in England as “The Presbyterian Rebellion.”
    http://gracereformedrapidcity.com/calvin.htm



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    It was Christian-Rationalist concoction, which is why it has, by all reasonable standards, failed.

    Some Founders were more on the Rationalist end of things (Jefferson and Franklin being the two obvious) and some were on the Christian end of things, Patrick Henry (a Calvinist) and John Adams (not a Calvinist) being on the Christian end. You couldn't have had the American Revolution without popular Christian support (Common Sense is littered with Biblical references), but, at the same time, many of the intellectual movers and shakers of the time were thorough-going Rationalists/Empiricists. So, it's really ignorant to say either were the ultimate in the American Revolution.

    However, as far as the founding of the actual colonies, which is where the founding of our country actually happened, not Independence Hall, Calvinism was the most important factor. The people coming to New England especially were devout Calvinists looking to establish a Christian commonwealth. New York was dominated by Dutch Reformed folks. The Huguenots helped settle South Carolina. The list goes on, and the First Great Awakening still is vitally important to our religious identity.
    Let's not forget Samuel Adams, the abolitionist founder, who John Adams said was "the Calvinist's Calvinist".

    Also in the OP, I thought it was interesting that John Wesley, the Arminian, sided with the Crown and didn't support the revolution.

    The American revolution grew out of English Puritanism and the Scottish Covenanters. Calvinists brought liberty to these shores, make no mistake about it. And the more we have strayed from that sure philosophical foundation of liberty, the more we have become statist slaves.
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 05-11-2011 at 02:10 AM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    The American revolution grew out of English Puritanism and the Scottish Covenanters. Calvinists brought liberty to these shores, make no mistake about it. And the more we have strayed from that sure philosophical foundation of liberty, the more we have become statist slaves.
    I think the problem was that we were straying before we even started. Jefferson was given free reign in the DoI and wound up making it a Lockean manifesto. Calvinism gave the basis for liberty, and gave justification for the right to resist. Anybody who believes in the doctrine of interposition is indebted to Calvin, even the Romanist Thomas E. Woods. It is simply unthinkable that the American Revolution could have happened without Calvinism. However, there were men at the very top who were already looking down a road to a government based on Enlightenment principles who co-opted the Calvinistic liberty movement and, let's face it, they won, probably about the time Jefferson was elected President. They took liberty, made it into a Rationalistic idea instead of a Christian one and, in the process, destroyed it.

    When we took the route chosen after the Revolution of dichotomy between religion and politics, we set ourselves, inevitably without repentance, to what we see today. We no longer had a foundation for liberty, and, if the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? What good is a written Constitution if its foundations are built upon the mere thoughts of men alone? The Founders weren't prophets, that much is certain. Eventually, we have been reduced to arguing for liberty from writings from the Founders, and that really is no basis for liberty. Why should the nine divines listen to that kind of argument? After all, society is evolving, and so must our laws, at least according to the naturalist, whether atheistic or deistic.
    Last edited by nate895; 05-11-2011 at 10:55 AM.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Until you rebut the facts and the historians quoted in the article, I don't have anything really to respond to you with...other than to marvel at how the state-education monopoly has dumbed you down and brainwashed you.

    You just need educate yourself man. Sorry to be so blunt.
    History shows that the Puritans only cared about religious liberty for themselves and persecuted Indians, Jews, Catholics and even other protestants. That's not a model of liberty I'm willing to follow.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    I think the problem was that we were straying before we even started. Jefferson was given free reign in the DoI and wound up making it a Lockean manifesto. Calvinism gave the basis for liberty, and gave justification for the right to resist. Anybody who believes in the doctrine of interposition is indebted to Calvin, even the Romanist Thomas E. Woods. It is simply unthinkable that the American Revolution could have happened without Calvinism. However, there were men at the very top who were already looking down a road to a government based on Enlightenment principles who co-opted the Calvinistic liberty movement and, let's face it, they won, probably about the time Jefferson was elected President. They took liberty, made it into a Rationalistic idea instead of a Christian one and, in the process, destroyed it.

    When we took the route chosen after the Revolution of dichotomy between religion and politics, we set ourselves, inevitably without repentance, to what we see today. We no longer had a foundation for liberty, and, if the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? What good is a written Constitution if its foundations are built upon the mere thoughts of men alone? The Founders weren't prophets, that much is certain.Eventually, we have been reduced to arguing for liberty from writings from the Founders, and that really is no basis for liberty. Why should the nine divines listen to that kind of argument? After all, society is evolving, and so must our laws, at least according to the naturalist, whether atheistic or deistic.

    Nate, you are exactly right. It is always the case that the people are more spiritually centered than the ruling elites.

    The people...the boots of the revolution...the ideas of the patriot preachers who took up arms in the cause of liberty....they were Calvinists. This is why the British initially referred to the American Revolution as "the Presbyterian rebellion".

    The elites of course were more rationalistic, more humanistic, and they wrote our founding documents as an amalgam of the purely Calvinitic early compacts and the more rationalistic Lockeanism.

    One need only read the early charters and compacts and early state constitutions of the Puritans, Hueganots, Dutch Reformed, and Scottish Covenanters, to see that their goal was a Christian commonwealth, "a shining city on a hill", conceived in the Liberty that only the sure foundation of Calvinism provided.



    *btw, I use the term "Calvinism" without apology. The uneducated will say ridiculous things like "you follow a man named Calvin". There are only so many times you can facepalm until you bruise your head. But I use the term to refer to the true Apostolic faith that was reintroduced during the Reformation, and what inspired the settlers and freedom-fighters of our country.
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 05-11-2011 at 12:50 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by low preference guy View Post
    LOL. It was the enlightenment what allowed this great country to be founded.
    The Enlightenment gave us the French Revolution.
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    History shows that the Puritans only cared about religious liberty for themselves and persecuted Indians, Jews, Catholics and even other protestants. That's not a model of liberty I'm willing to follow.
    Yawn.

    How is that Howard Zinn book coming along? Are you almost done?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    The Enlightenment gave us the French Revolution.
    And let's not forget that Jefferson liked the French Revolution. He is so admired by many in the liberty movement today, but I have to say that I think his was the most damaging influence on the Revolution. He imported the Enlightenment wholesale. At least Franklin wanted to keep vestiges of Christian liberty in the country, despite his rationalism. Jefferson was so anti-Christian, and, therefore, anti-liberty, for only through the Son can we have liberty, that he actually spent time editing the Bible to get rid of the God parts, leaving only the supposedly pure "moral" teachings. What could be more foolhardy! Who did he think he was to think he could purify the Scriptures!

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Nate, you are exactly right. It is always the case that the people are more spiritually centered than the ruling elites.

    The people...the boots of the revolution...the ideas of the patriot preachers who took up arms in the cause of liberty....they were Calvinists. This is why the British initially referred to the American Revolution as "the Presbyterian rebellion".

    The elites of course were more rationalistic, more humanistic, and they wrote our founding documents as an amalgam of the purely Calvinitic early compacts and the more rationalistic Lockeanism.

    One need only read the early charters and compacts and early state constitutions of the Puritans, Hueganots, Dutch Reformed, and Scottish Covenanters, to see that their goal was a Christian commonwealth, "a shining city on a hill", conceived in the Liberty that only the sure foundation of Calvinism provided.



    *btw, I use the term "Calvinism" without apology. The uneducated will say ridiculous things like "you follow a man named Calvin". There are only so many times you can facepalm until you bruise your head. But I use the term to refer to the true Apostolic faith that was reintroduced during the Reformation, and what inspired the settlers and freedom-fighters of our country.
    I agree pretty much wholeheartedly. I just wish that Calvinists were more influential in the actual writing of the founding documents.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  18. #16
    The premiere book on this topic is David Hall's, The Genevan Reformation and America's Founding
    http://www.amazon.com/Genevan-Reform...5140829&sr=8-1

    Great use of source material. Nowadays we speak of nullification thanks to Jefferson and Madison. They were reading these guys on interposition of the lesser magistrate to the greater as lawful revolution. Even if you are not a Christian and just want to read some history that you'll never get anywhere else, read the reformers, covanters, puritans on resistance theory.

    AquaBudda - GET THIS BOOK!!!
    "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave."
    -- Patrick Henry (speech in the Virginia Convention, 23 March 1775)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by crhoades View Post
    The premiere book on this topic is David Hall's, The Genevan Reformation and America's Founding
    http://www.amazon.com/Genevan-Reform...5140829&sr=8-1

    Great use of source material. Nowadays we speak of nullification thanks to Jefferson and Madison. They were reading these guys on interposition of the lesser magistrate to the greater as lawful revolution. Even if you are not a Christian and just want to read some history that you'll never get anywhere else, read the reformers, covanters, puritans on resistance theory.

    AquaBudda - GET THIS BOOK!!!
    Thanks for the recommendation brother!

    I have heard so many good things about Hall's book. When I finish Liberty Defined, it will be next on my list.

    Most people are completely unaware that these revolutionary concepts come from Calvinism!
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 05-11-2011 at 01:15 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    *btw, I use the term "Calvinism" without apology. The uneducated will say ridiculous things like "you follow a man named Calvin". There are only so many times you can facepalm until you bruise your head. But I use the term to refer to the true Apostolic faith that was reintroduced during the Reformation, and what inspired the settlers and freedom-fighters of our country.
    Is this the Calvinist teachings? That the Apostolic faith disappeared and then reappeared 1700 years later?
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    Is this the Calvinist teachings? That the Apostolic faith disappeared and then reappeared 1700 years later?
    You need to actually read the Church Fathers instead of just keep repeating what the Eastern Orthodox say they taught.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    Is this the Calvinist teachings? That the Apostolic faith disappeared and then reappeared 1700 years later?
    The true faith can never disappear, but in the Reformation, the apostolic faith was RESTATED and REAPPLIED.

  24. #21
    I
    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    You need to actually read the Church Fathers instead of just keep repeating what the Eastern Orthodox say they taught.
    That is an interesting reply. You mean the Church Fathers who are saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church, who celebrated the Divine Eucharist in accordance to the faith of the Church?

    Tell me which Church Fathers you read.
    Last edited by TER; 05-11-2011 at 01:24 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  25. #22
    Didn't George Fox and William Penn also introduce many important liberty concepts into Christendom that later inspired the founders? Just curious..

    /Quaker threadjack
    "When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system's game. The establishment will irritate you - pull your beard, flick your face - to make you fight, because once they've got you violent then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humor. "

    ---John Lennon


    "I EAT NEOCONS FOR BREAKFAST!!!"

    ---Me

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    I

    That is an interesting reply. You mean the Church Fathers who are saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church, who celebrated the Divine Eucharist in accordance to the faith if the Church?

    Tell me which Church Fathers you read.
    Does the EOC read Augustine, or do they ignore his teaching of election and reprobation?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    The true faith can never disappear, but in the Reformation, the apostolic faith was RESTATED and REAPPLIED.
    So you believe, even when it goes completely against the apostolic faith defended, maintained, and died for by 2000 years of saints.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Until you rebut the facts and the historians quoted in the article, I don't have anything really to respond to you with...other than to marvel at how the state-education monopoly has dumbed you down and brainwashed you.

    You just need educate yourself man. Sorry to be so blunt.
    Calvinism at its finest hour.

    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Does the EOC read Augustine, or do they ignore his teaching of election and reprobation?
    Saint Augustine is a wonderful saint who made errors, just all people make errors. The Church is not the musings of one saint, but the collective witness held everwhere, at all times. The individual saint is not infallible, but their teachings are when in accordance to the Mind of the Church, which is the Body of Christ. Only Christ is infallible.
    Last edited by TER; 05-11-2011 at 01:31 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    So you believe, even when it goes completely against the apostolic faith defended, maintained, and died for by 2000 years of saints.
    I'm not following you here. The Reformers were Augustinians and they defended Pauline theology.

    Rome had strayed so far from orthodoxy that men who read their Bibles couldn't be associated with it anymore.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    I

    That is an interesting reply. You mean the Church Fathers who are saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church, who celebrated the Divine Eucharist in accordance to the faith of the Church?

    Tell me which Church Fathers you read.
    Personally, I have not read many Church Fathers, but I intend on getting into Patristics in Seminary in a deeper manner. I have read some of Eusebius, Augustine, and John Chrysostom. Although, obviously, each made errors, and I do not think myself free of error (although I, of course, would like to think I am more right than wrong), their theology is wholly consistent with the Reformational restatement of the Faith. The Reformers weren't so much making a new doctrine, I think, than restating the old one. The Reformers tried to let the Fathers be the Fathers: Men worthy of respect and valued for their insight, but not absolutized.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    I'm not following you here. The Reformers were Augustinians and they defended Pauline theology.

    Rome had strayed so far from orthodoxy that men who read their Bibles couldn't be associated with it anymore.
    The reformers may consider themselves to be Augustinians, but that does mean they are orthodox Christians any more than the Arians considered themselves to be orthodox Christians. In fact, we aim to be Christians, in accordance to teachings of Christ and His Church. Not through any one mere man, no matter who they are.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    Personally, I have not read many Church Fathers, but I intend on getting into Patristics in Seminary in a deeper manner. I have read some of Eusebius, Augustine, and John Chrysostom. Although, obviously, each made errors, and I do not think myself free of error (although I, of course, would like to think I am more right than wrong), their theology is wholly consistent with the Reformational restatement of the Faith. The Reformers weren't so much making a new doctrine, I think, than restating the old one. The Reformers tried to let the Fathers be the Fathers: Men worthy of respect and valued for their insight, but not absolutized.
    You would do good indeed reading more Patristics. In fact, we all would.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

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