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Thread: Warning Fools! Silver Will Fall by 66%

  1. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    I don't have any metal. I converted mine to food production machinery (hammer mill, seed press, diesel engines to run them etc.)and other tools to help me take a productive place in the coming localized economy. I think the time of austerity to come will exceed almost anyone's ability to hoard food or consumable assets. So I invest in tools and skills.
    I have metal, but my plan is also very similar, and also deals with food - not on the processing, but localized farming and agricultural end, and how to make that as viral as possible. The metal is partly a hedge, should that means be expropriated or otherwise commandeered, which I think is far more likely from any number of sources.



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  3. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    I have metal, but my plan is also very similar, and also deals with food - not on the processing, but localized farming and agricultural end, and how to make that as viral as possible. The metal is partly a hedge, should that means be expropriated or otherwise commandeered, which I think is far more likely from any number of sources.
    Interesting. I am REALLY interested in small, self-sustaining, grass-fed cow-calf operations.
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  5. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Interesting. I am REALLY interested in small, self-sustaining, grass-fed cow-calf operations.
    Me too. Sent you a PM.

  6. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    Yeah, but what about the suckers who bought gold when it was at $1900 an ounce? Do you feel their pain?
    What about the suckers who bought a home in CA, FLA, AZ in 2007?

    When gold was $1900, my neighbors bought a Cadillac Escalade. If they had bought gold instead, would they be feeling pain vs the SUV, tires, oil changes, registration fees, plates costs, insurance, gasoline, personal tax, etc., etc? When they bought the SUV, did they plan to keep it for 3 months and sell it?

    If you asked them about buying that much gold, they would say without hesitation; "I can't afford that!!!", but when you mention that they had no apparent problem finding the means to purchase the SUV, you'll immediately get; "But, you HAVE to have a CAR!!!".

    But, let's stick to silver here, since that's the subject of the thread. Silver has outperformed gold 2:1 since the meltdown. Gold is at or above where it should be, silver is 1/2 what it should be against the USD. That means, IMHO, that with a USDX at 80, silver should cost 60USD. If TPTB were making ANY moves to strengthen the USD, I would still hold silver. But, they're doing the opposite, continuing to debase the USD.

    My point is a very simple one. While virtually everyone I know has just spent thousands of USD to satisfy the demands of the Christmas obligation and the latest iPad, iPhone, Plasma TV, Premium Cable Package, Dining Out, sucking down booze by the case and really cool shoes... it would be absurd for me to think of them as suffering any pain if they had allocated a percentage of those completely useless expenditures toward silver at $48.

    Bosso

  7. #275
    Well said , Bosso!
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  8. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    What about the suckers who bought a home in CA, FLA, AZ in 2007?

    When gold was $1900, my neighbors bought a Cadillac Escalade. If they had bought gold instead, would they be feeling pain vs the SUV, tires, oil changes, registration fees, plates costs, insurance, gasoline, personal tax, etc., etc? When they bought the SUV, did they plan to keep it for 3 months and sell it?

    If you asked them about buying that much gold, they would say without hesitation; "I can't afford that!!!", but when you mention that they had no apparent problem finding the means to purchase the SUV, you'll immediately get; "But, you HAVE to have a CAR!!!".

    But, let's stick to silver here, since that's the subject of the thread. Silver has outperformed gold 2:1 since the meltdown. Gold is at or above where it should be, silver is 1/2 what it should be against the USD. That means, IMHO, that with a USDX at 80, silver should cost 60USD. If TPTB were making ANY moves to strengthen the USD, I would still hold silver. But, they're doing the opposite, continuing to debase the USD.

    My point is a very simple one. While virtually everyone I know has just spent thousands of USD to satisfy the demands of the Christmas obligation and the latest iPad, iPhone, Plasma TV, Premium Cable Package, Dining Out, sucking down booze by the case and really cool shoes... it would be absurd for me to think of them as suffering any pain if they had allocated a percentage of those completely useless expenditures toward silver at $48.

    Bosso
    I bought my home in CA in 1999. It is still worth more than I paid for it. But there is no way I could have or would have purchased in 2007. I am wary of buying anything which has had a good runup in price- and at $1900 gold had been up a very large amount.

  9. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    What about the suckers who bought a home in CA, FLA, AZ in 2007?

    When gold was $1900, my neighbors bought a Cadillac Escalade. If they had bought gold instead, would they be feeling pain vs the SUV, tires, oil changes, registration fees, plates costs, insurance, gasoline, personal tax, etc., etc? When they bought the SUV, did they plan to keep it for 3 months and sell it?

    If you asked them about buying that much gold, they would say without hesitation; "I can't afford that!!!", but when you mention that they had no apparent problem finding the means to purchase the SUV, you'll immediately get; "But, you HAVE to have a CAR!!!".

    But, let's stick to silver here, since that's the subject of the thread. Silver has outperformed gold 2:1 since the meltdown. Gold is at or above where it should be, silver is 1/2 what it should be against the USD. That means, IMHO, that with a USDX at 80, silver should cost 60USD. If TPTB were making ANY moves to strengthen the USD, I would still hold silver. But, they're doing the opposite, continuing to debase the USD.

    My point is a very simple one. While virtually everyone I know has just spent thousands of USD to satisfy the demands of the Christmas obligation and the latest iPad, iPhone, Plasma TV, Premium Cable Package, Dining Out, sucking down booze by the case and really cool shoes... it would be absurd for me to think of them as suffering any pain if they had allocated a percentage of those completely useless expenditures toward silver at $48.

    Bosso
    I bought my home in CA in 1999. It is still worth more than I paid for it. But there is no way I could have or would have purchased in 2007. I am wary of buying anything which has had a good runup in price- and at $1900 gold had been up a very large amount.

  10. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I bought my home in CA in 1999. It is still worth more than I paid for it. But there is no way I could have or would have purchased in 2007. I am wary of buying anything which has had a good runup in price- and at $1900 gold had been up a very large amount.
    Take the price you paid for your house and instead purchase gold in 1999 at $280. If you were smart, you'd have sold it at $1900 and bought it back at $1550.

    If you bought your home with a mortgage, you also paid interest along with property taxes, insurance and the required maintenance. Counting the actual costs involved, I doubt your home is worth more than you paid for it.

    Against the million+ the gold would be worth today, there is no real comparison here.

    Bosso

  11. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    My point is a very simple one. While virtually everyone I know has just spent thousands of USD to satisfy the demands of the Christmas obligation and the latest iPad, iPhone, Plasma TV, Premium Cable Package, Dining Out, sucking down booze by the case and really cool shoes... it would be absurd for me to think of them as suffering any pain if they had allocated a percentage of those completely useless expenditures toward silver at $48.

    Bosso
    Ain't that the truth. These kind of people buy high and sell low, so investing isn't really for them in the first place.
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  12. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    Take the price you paid for your house and instead purchase gold in 1999 at $280. If you were smart, you'd have sold it at $1900 and bought it back at $1550.

    If you bought your home with a mortgage, you also paid interest along with property taxes, insurance and the required maintenance. Counting the actual costs involved, I doubt your home is worth more than you paid for it.

    Against the million+ the gold would be worth today, there is no real comparison here.

    Bosso
    Is that what you did? Sold all your gold at $1900? Incredible that you knew that would be the top price for the market. In 1999, I was looking at a guaranteed return on buying my home. Consider also that at that time, the price of gold had been falling nearly every year for 20 years. That did not look like a very good investment. Not many people want to invest in something which had such a dismal record.


    Buying a home vs renting? When you rent, you are paying interest, property taxes, and required maintanance to- that is going to the person who owns the property owner and is included in your rent- you are paying those costs for them. You are not avoiding those costs. By using the same amount of money (my mortgage plus taxes are actually lower than renting a comparable unit in my area), instead of simply giving that money away to the property owner, I get a piece of that property for myself. Now when do I get my return? I have been saving all along vs the cost of renting and in addition when it is paid for (in just under one year more at the rate I have been pre-paying on the mortgage) my spendable income will jump by nearly 30%- and I get that return for as long as I continue to live here. Guaranteed. I can't get that guarantee from gold or other investments which will go up or down over time. And if I want I can still sell my home so I get a return plus still own the asset. To get the return on gold you have to actually sell it.

    In reality, the choice was keep renting or buy a home. It was not buy a home or buy gold- you would still be spending that money either way on renting or home ownership. If you want to buy gold instead of renting, you can't because you still need a place to live. Unless you still live with Mom. That must be from money in addition to any rents or mortgage/interest/maintanance. It is not instead of. You can own a home and buy gold. It is not either or. I took money not going to rent and put it towards the home purchase. I still had to pay that money anyways- might as well get something for it. And by paying it off early (note that this will be in less than even 15 years) I am saving thousands in interest.

    I am very happy with my decision.


    So let us say I did not purchase a home when I did. I would still have been paying about $1000 a month or so on rent (Southern California beach area). I would not nearly have it paid off and I would not have had that "extra" money "saved" by not buying a home to put into gold. I would still be paying $1000 or more a month and not be facing a 30% increase in disposable income for 2013 and having an asset worth over $200,000. I do not see how I would be better off. But that is how it worked out for me.
    If I decide to put more money into gold, can you promise me (and back it up with a guarantee) that gold will once again triple in price? Nobody can.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-01-2012 at 01:58 PM.



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  14. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Is that what you did? Sold all your gold at $1900? Incredible that you knew that would be the top price for the market. In 1999, I was looking at a guaranteed return on buying my home. Consider also that at that time, the price of gold had been falling nearly every year for 20 years. That did not look like a very good investment. Not many people want to invest in something which had such a dismal record.


    Buying a home vs renting? When you rent, you are paying interest, property taxes, and required maintanance to- that is going to the person who owns the property owner and is included in your rent- you are paying those costs for them. You are not avoiding those costs. By using the same amount of money (my mortgage plus taxes are actually lower than renting a comparable unit in my area), instead of simply giving that money away to the property owner, I get a piece of that property for myself. Now when do I get my return? I have been saving all along vs the cost of renting and in addition when it is paid for (in just under one year more at the rate I have been pre-paying on the mortgage) my spendable income will jump by nearly 30%- and I get that return for as long as I continue to live here. Guaranteed. I can't get that guarantee from gold or other investments which will go up or down over time. And if I want I can still sell my home so I get a return plus still own the asset. To get the return on gold you have to actually sell it.

    In reality, the choice was keep renting or buy a home. It was not buy a home or buy gold- you would still be spending that money either way on renting or home ownership. If you want to buy gold instead of renting, you can't because you still need a place to live. Unless you still live with Mom. That must be from money in addition to any rents or mortgage/interest/maintanance. It is not instead of. You can own a home and buy gold. It is not either or. I took money not going to rent and put it towards the home purchase. I still had to pay that money anyways- might as well get something for it. And by paying it off early (note that this will be in less than even 15 years) I am saving thousands in interest.

    I am very happy with my decision.


    So let us say I did not purchase a home when I did. I would still have been paying about $1000 a month or so on rent (Southern California beach area). I would not nearly have it paid off and I would not have had that "extra" money "saved" by not buying a home to put into gold. I would still be paying $1000 or more a month and not be facing a 30% increase in disposable income for 2013 and having an asset worth over $200,000. I do not see how I would be better off. But that is how it worked out for me.
    If I decide to put more money into gold, can you promise me (and back it up with a guarantee) that gold will once again triple in price? Nobody can.
    No, I sold at $1700. Did you invest in anything that appreciated that much in 12 years? If so, you're a pretty astute investor, considering the DOW is up only <20% in that span.

    You haven't told us yet what your house has actually cost you to date vs what you think it's worth? BTW, how much is your house worth if no one wants to buy it?

    I don't care if you or anyone else invests in silver (the subject of this thread). Did I give you the impression that I do? I just object to silly arguments against the idea by folks who just aren't thinking straight, have a typical American consumer mentality that dictates that buying built-in obsolescence and losing buckets of income in the process is AOK, but "FOOLS, Silver Is Gonna DROP!!!"

    Here's my guarantee; I'll buy the silver instead of you. Good luck with your real estate portfolio out there in CA.

    Bosso

  15. #282
    I paid just over $100k for my condo which even after the price drops is still worth over $200k (what they are currently selling for). If you consider that, I still have a pretty nice return. If I was paying rent, my return would have been a loss of 100% every month. And in one more year I will be basically paying no rent (OK- small amounts compared to rent- there will still be property taxes and homeowners fees but that will be one third of what I would be paying in rent had I not bought- about $300 a month vs $1100 a month). Your return on gold is excellent. Congratulations! Nobody could have predicted that- you were lucky on that. Were you buying metals in 1999? Not many were- as I pointed out, at that time gold had been declining in price for 20 years.

    This is just how it worked out for me. I was as lucky on real estate as you were on gold. It depends on when you got in if either would be a good move for somebody else. Buying either gold six months ago when it was $1900 or real estate two years ago at the top of that market would not be as good of a deal- though that remains to be seen how they come out in the long run. My goal was to have a place paid off before I retire (at least a decade and a half away) to lower my expenses. That gives you the same economic benefit as having a pile of money put into some other investment. I get the benefits (lower expenses) and still own the asset as well.

  16. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    This is just how it worked out for me. I was as lucky on real estate as you were on gold. It depends on when you got in if either would be a good move for somebody else. Buying either gold six months ago when it was $1900 or real estate two years ago at the top of that market would not be as good of a deal- though that remains to be seen how they come out in the long run. My goal was to have a place paid off before I retire (at least a decade and a half away) to lower my expenses. That gives you the same economic benefit as having a pile of money put into some other investment. I get the benefits (lower expenses) and still own the asset as well.
    All of this speaks to temporal strategies employed for the greatest return in value as strictly an investment strategy, which, like you said, is "just how it worked" for you (thus far). The equity on your house has outperformed gold thus far (again, just within your investment time span), as housing values continue to have a relatively high floor, despite the housing crisis, and may continue to remain high so long as interest rates remain low and there is at least enough economic activity for people to continue to buy and sell houses.

    Remember that you also stated that it was your goal to have a place paid off before you retire, which is at least fifteen years away. That goal, as stated, is not an investment strategy, per se, but a survival/security goal - one that happens to be supported by wise investment.

    As of this moment, you have enough equity in your house to be able to liquidate it and purchase a $100k house outright. But let's say that you don't do that. Let's say that your expectation is that you will not lose the net equity you've gained, and that your plan is just to see the mortgage through until your condo is finally paid for.

    That all hinges on what can happen at any time within the next fifteen years, so let's look at that in the long term:

    1 - The economy will remain more or less stable, with moderate price inflation that will continue to increase your equity position even as dollars become inexorably cheaper.

    2 - Abnormally high price inflation or hyperinflation, enabling you to pay off our loan in even cheaper dollars.

    That assumes, of course, that a) you are able to adjust your income, and/or b) that the rising cost of other necessities doesn't seriously impact your ability meet your mortgage obligations. However, such a scenario assumes economic instability, as unusually high price inflation also coincides historically with enormous capital flight, as people pour money into commodities, so once again we're back to gold and silver, and whether it will outperform your condo in the long run.

    3 - Monetary deflation, or a full-on credit deflationary crash and depression kicks in (even temporarily, prior to hyperinflation) and becomes so acute that two things could happen:

    • Your means for acquiring the cash required to pay off your loan no longer exists, and/or
    • Housing prices fall even further, eating into your equity by that much.


    If you are without income, you might be forced to liquidate other assets, and barring that ability, might lose your condo anyway. Even if you are fortunate enough to retain your own income source, if severe deflation is an economy-wide phenomenon, with enough foreclosures around you, that could most definitely represent a drop in the general floor value real estate to the point of putting you upside down, with negative equity.

    Meanwhile, what happens historically to gold and silver during a deflationary depression? It skyrockets, right along with perishable commodities, outperforming everything, even as shortages are revealed. Abnormally high prices will eventually correct as available cash dries up, but very slowly in terms of hard and soft commodities, because that is where all the available cash is being pumped -- into something that is otherwise unavailable even at high prices. So it remains highly liquid, even as prices for everything else, including real estate, continues to fall.

    In the long run, a frugal renter who bought PM's could end up being able to buy more than just a condo. It all hinges on what you think is going to happen with the currency, and therefore the economy. I'm betting against both.

  17. #284
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

    You seem to be making the same mistake that Bossobass was. I am not taking any extra income to purchase the condo- I am instead using money which would have been going to paying rent and getting me nothing. By purchasing a home I am getting something in return for that money rather than simply giving it away every month. A person cannot really take the money they are spending on rent, stop paying that rent, and buy precious metals (unless they decide to live on the street or bum of somebody else for a place to stay) but you can buy a home with it. As for inflation, if prices for everything are rising then rents will likely also be rising. My mortgage will not be rising (fixed mortgage rate of course) and in fact will go to zero once it is paid off. This will not happen for a renter. I am avoiding inflation in the price of renting while the renter could face higher costs in the future, mine will be lower and we both get the same thing- a place to live- for the money.

    This does not exclude using any extra money to invest in gold as any renter can do as well.

    By the way, my balance due is down to about $15k so I really have about $200k in equity. I expect to have it gone in about one year (not 15 years) by making extra payments. Granted these extra payment ARE money which could go to something else. I just don't see much else offering the same rate of return right now as the interest I am paying. I think metals have peaked for now and that stocks will be pretty flat for a few years- maybe longer.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-03-2012 at 04:04 PM.

  18. #285
    Actually, I am not ignoring rent, or the fact that one must live while saving.

    I think many people make the mistake of simplistically thinking of mortgage payments as somehow equal to rental payments they otherwise would have had to make. After all, goes the reasoning, why make someone else's mortgage payment when you can buy and own yourself?

    If your mortgage payment truly equals the rent you could have otherwise paid (do like valued condos in your area rent for what you are paying in mortgage payments?), and none of the hidden cost of ownership of your condo eats into that by any appreciable amount, then there may be nothing wrong with what you are doing - and provided you never end up in a situation where you are upside down.

    As it is now, most people can actually save a considerable amount of money by renting. They can rent and pocket/save the difference between the mortgage cost and the rental value. The only thing they stand to lose is any equity the owner will have if the rental appreciates in value.

    The New York Times published a nifty widget that accounts for various factors in determining whether it really is better to buy or rent. And the answer is always: it depends on a number of factors. (don't take the default values at face value - play with the sliders, and even the advanced settings where you can input all of your costs and other factors)

    Rental prices are rarely equal to mortgage payments, unless someone has owned their rental property for a very long time. If housing prices fall, and foreclosures become more rampant, renters have the ultimate variable rate mortgage, because they can always move to a house where an owner is at least trying to recoup some of his obligation. But the days of positive cash flow for new owners who buy houses to turn into rentals are gone in most areas.

    Since we are talking about PMs versus real estate - and long term only, given that you are paying on a mortgage, your long term bet is that real estate will outperform PMs. Mine would be the opposite, with housing prices continuing to fall/correct, and dollar prices of PM's rising - and ultimately becoming deleveraged, as they float up and away from their previously suppressed ceilings.

    Thus, a renter who saves the difference in PM's can actually accumulate enough to later buy a foreclosed house that has lost its value, and end up on top - regardless of whether we are faced with deflationary depression - where both credit AND cash are scarce - or hyperinflation, where PM's skyrocket along with all hard and soft commodities as the only goods having any real value.
    Last edited by Steven Douglas; 01-03-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  19. #286
    If your mortgage payment truly equals the rent you could have otherwise paid (do like valued condos in your area rent for what you are paying in mortgage payments?), and none of the hidden cost of ownership of your condo eats into that by any appreciable amount, then there may be nothing wrong with what you are doing - and provided you never end up in a situation where you are upside down.
    At the time of my purchase, the mortgage plus property taxes and HOA fees was pretty close to what rentals were (I got in just before the bubble took off- luck on my part) and now they are less than renting comparable units (currently $1100 a month to rent vs my current $800 for taxes, HOA and mortgage). As for ending up in an upside down situation, as I mentioned in my last post I only owe another $15,000 on it so that is incredibly unlikely. But being upside down only really matters if you decide to sell your house during the time it is valued at less than you paid for it. If you bought gold at $1500 and it drops to $1200, one has not lost that $300 unless you sell at that price.

    You are right that things are different now as far as the gap between rentals and purchasing costs, but in many areas that is closing again- rental prices have been rising while selling prices of homes have been coming down. Interest rates are also incredibly low right now so that also makes it a pretty good time to buy.

    You are also right that a person needs to consider what else they could do with that money and if they think it would be a wise decision for them. In 1999 (the year I bought my place) gold had been going down in price for about 20 years following the 1980 bubble- making high prices for gold seem more like an anomoly. One could not have predicted either the extent of the housing bubble and its collapse or that gold would take off like it has. Will housing go down furher or is it nearing its bottom? I am inclined to think the bottom in most areas is not really that far off now (we won't know until after the bottom has passed of course) and gold peaked in price back this past summer at $1900 and has been settling down again. Will it continue to go lower or will it reverse course again and go up? Was that another bubble which is now passed or are we just in a correction on the way higher? Nobody can predict with any certainty.

    A person needs to be sure they will stay in the home for a while too. If one plans on moving in a few years, buying is definately not a good idea.

    I am pleased with my decision. I locked in my housing costs and in another year my disposable income will take a significant jump. If I wanted to, I could take the money I will be saving and buy perhaps half an ounce of gold every month (at current gold prices I will be saving that much) compared to what I would be paying to still rent. Others of course will have to make their own decision.

    Interesting chart: US housing prices in terms of ounces of gold:
    http://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/USHLSPOG.php
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-03-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  20. #287
    Article from 2011:
    http://money.msn.com/home-loans/the-...martmoney.aspx
    3/3/2011 11:07 AM ET
    By SmartMoney
    The rising costs of renting

    With inflation on the upswing and home prices still subdued, becoming a renter is no longer the bargain it was in recent years.


    Freaked by the housing market, more would-be homebuyers are opting for rentals -- and driving up prices along the way. But rising rents aren't the only thing apartment dwellers have to worry about. New costs could also make renting less of a bargain than it appears.
    In some cities, the housing market has fallen so far, and the rental market has gotten so tight, that rent could cost significantly more than a mortgage on a comparable place.

    In Miami's Dade County, for example, renting a two-bedroom apartment costs $1,206 on average. Monthly mortgage and property tax payments on the same property, based on a median list price of $209,000, would cost $774, according to Movoto.com, which tracks rentals and sale prices. Over five years, that's a difference of almost $26,000 -- not even including the tax break for mortgage interest. In Fairfax County, Va., the savings could be similar

    To determine whether owning is cheaper than renting in a specific neighborhood, pull up equivalent for-sale listings online, speak with a real estate agent, and use a rent-or-buy calculator to compare the monthly costs of renting and owning. If the monthly savings are significant, there are other compelling reasons to buy, says John Mulville, a senior vice president at Real Estate Economics, which tracks residential real estate data: Prices are low, and so are mortgage rates.

  21. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    As for ending up in an upside down situation, as I mentioned in my last post I only owe another $15,000 on it so that is incredibly unlikely.
    I missed that part. You're actually paying down principle now, and will never, EVER be upside down, and with a fixed interest rate, you're sitting pretty. Good for you, and hopefully you won't get hit by some pointy-head who figures out how to get to siphon off your equity through property taxes or increased HOA fees. Otherwise, it's nothing at all for you to have enough PM's on hand to liquidate piecemeal in case of emergencies as you pay the remainder of the debt over time with ever-cheapening dollars.

    Good luck to you.



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  23. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    I missed that part. You're actually paying down principle now, and will never, EVER be upside down, and with a fixed interest rate, you're sitting pretty. Good for you, and hopefully you won't get hit by some pointy-head who figures out how to get to siphon off your equity through property taxes or increased HOA fees. Otherwise, it's nothing at all for you to have enough PM's on hand to liquidate piecemeal in case of emergencies as you pay the remainder of the debt over time with ever-cheapening dollars.

    Good luck to you.
    I thought I'd chime in as I do all three things listed above (buy rentals, own my own condo, and purchased PMs):

    In my area it is significantly cheaper to own than rent. My condo costs me total (excluding electric) ~$1200/month and it would rent for $1,500/month. However, the condo market in my area is very...interesting =p

    With repairs though it comes about the same. So I would argue your opportunity cost is the following: Your down payment. You are locking a decent portion of your wealth in a non-income producing asset that depreciates and is ill-liquid. I've obviously diversified my wealth in aspects that are supportive and yet not conflicting.

  24. #290

  25. #291

    Silver Coin Sales May Signal Bear-Market End

    Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The surge in the U.S. Mint’s sales of American Eagle silver coins in January may signal an end to the bear market in the metal.

    The CHART OF THE DAY shows the Mint sold 4.26 million ounces of the coins to authorized purchasers Jan. 3 through Jan. 10. At this pace, full-month deliveries may reach 14.2 million ounces, more than twice the record 6.422 million ounces sold in January 2011.

    Silver futures fell 48 percent from April to December, more than double the 20 percent drop associated with the start of a bear market. Prices are up 6.9 percent this year. Silver may rise as high as $42.20 an ounce this year, according to the median of 41 analyst estimates in a Bloomberg survey last month.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...f-the-day.html

  26. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    $27 bump!
    The good old days (one month ago), when silver was at $27/oz...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #293
    A breather back down to about 30 is likely before another rocket move up. Hope so anyway, I just got some cash to buy a bit, wouldnt mind the savings .

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The good old days (one month ago), when silver was at $27/oz...

  28. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    A breather back down to about 30 is likely before another rocket move up. Hope so anyway, I just got some cash to buy a bit, wouldnt mind the savings .
    You never know. I don't see us back under $30 for a long time, barring extraordinary events. The big buying op came and went (they usually do with very little hype). When it gets back up to $40, we'll have three threads a day about it.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  29. #295
    Sprott's PSLV tranche buying, US Mint sales of Eagles, ZIRP, QE to inifinity (as needed to hit inflation target), SLV physical metal raids, etc.

    Very bullish.

  30. #296
    The problem with silver...


    FRAUD


    and why REAL PHYSICAL silver will go through the roof is because the market is being FLOODED WITH FIAT SILVER. I think holding REAL silver at 30, 40, 50, even 150 is a good bet... because before long the market will figure out that "traded" silver certificates are totally BOGUS and are not backed by anything. Thats when your silver coins are going to be worth a small fortune. Depending on how long it takes for the market to wise up to the fraud of silver manipulation... I bet (REAL) silver (IN HAND) goes tenfold to $500++ if not a disneyland $5k and those BOGUS certificates that we call "silver" become worthless; just like the green back when this all collapses.

    The $#@! will hit the fan.


    THE
    LARGEST
    FINANCIAL
    FRAUD
    IN HUMAN
    HISTORY



    Google:
    silver manipulation Andrew Maguire JPM

    Google:
    silver NAKED SHORT ORDER


    "FOR EVERY 100 OUNCES IN TRADE there exist only ONE OUNCE in the VAULT"


    Repeat:

    COMEX SILVER IS NAKED 100:1

    Andrew Maguire finally exposes systemic fraud by CFTC & JPMorgan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLxoeLqQMlw
    90k views 100% likes

    xtranormal cartoon explaination:


    Part 1- JP Morgan Silver Manipulation Explained

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl47z2g2EvI
    300k views nearly 100% positive "likes"

    "the higher the silver goes the more worthless the paper fiat $ is that the Ben Bernanke prints for free"
    "when the BB needs to keep silver down, JPM is given paper to short the silver market"

    Part 2-JP Morgan Silver Manipulation Explained
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPg4qTNTP-E

    Part 3 - Silver Manipulation Explained
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AId_UiPtPpQ

    Part 4 - Silver and Gold Manipulation Explained
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h66R4U-Eybs

    Part 5 - The Silver Saga Story Continues
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzyXn8t0plM

    Part 6- The Paper Silver Manipulation Game at all time Highs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9LcKcXpCDE

    Part 7, The EPIC Weekend has Arrived
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlzhnZMChY

    Part 8 - The Gold Rush Currency Wars
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIUctQ8Wy4Q

    THE GIG IS UP!

    "stores of silver have multiple claims upon them"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_as_an_investment


    GOT SILVER? or a spastic colon?
    Last edited by presence; 02-02-2012 at 12:15 PM.



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  32. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You never know. I don't see us back under $30 for a long time, barring extraordinary events. The big buying op came and went (they usually do with very little hype). When it gets back up to $40, we'll have three threads a day about it.
    We are over $30 now--what's next?

  33. #298
    Silver has been trading in a narrow range for about 3 months

  34. #299
    I feel pretty good about all of it I bought this year @ an avg of 27.06 . Still feel pretty good about what I bought in the 90's too .

  35. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I feel pretty good about all of it I bought this year @ an avg of 27.06 . Still feel pretty good about what I bought in the 90's too .
    Hmm--how early in the 90s like 1993 when it was $3.50/oz.?

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