What is with the bitcoin obsession?

[hazek]

You're welcome.

Btw have people read this pretty awesome article/introduction from a libertarian perspective?:

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/0...roduction.html

Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction

What it is, how it's used, and why you should care.

Erik Voorhees - April 11, 2012

"When a state currency is challenged, the state itself is challenged,
and market forces move swiftly around sickly, depreciating inhibitors."

· Introduction
· What is Bitcoin?
· How does it work?
· Why is Bitcoin valuable?
· No really, WHY is Bitcoin valuable?
· How does one obtain it?
· Being careful with money
· What can one do with it?
· Bitcoin vs. The State
· Bitcoin and Disruption
· Useful Resources

Introduction

There has been much talk about Bitcoin within libertarian and economic circles. It's becoming a buzzword, but like all new systems that break onto the public stage quickly, Bitcoin brings with it excitement, speculation, rumor, and downright confusion. To be sure, Bitcoin is complicated. After all, it's an entirely new global monetary system - both a currency and a payment network for that currency.

Like all powerful tools, it's important for those interested in using Bitcoin to spend some time engaging in the due diligence of education. Similar to a bicycle, once you know how to use Bitcoin, it will feel very easy and comfortable. But also like a bicycle, one could spend years learning the physics that enable it to operate. Such deep knowledge is not necessary to the actual rider, and in the same way one can enjoy the world of Bitcoin with little more than a healthy curiosity and a bit of practice.

This article is a primer on Bitcoin: an overview of the fascinating new phenomenon from the perspective of a humble libertarian who cares more about the ramifications for human liberty than about the technical protocol and brilliant science underlying the network.

The basics of Bitcoin are all covered here, ranging from a light technical overview to due diligence to monetary economics and theory. You'll also find an extensive list of resources to bring you up to speed on this most fascinating thing to happen in the realm of anarcho-capitalist technology since the internet itself.

[helmuth_hubener]

2. Eventually governments will intervene because they think they can stop people from doing illegal business by cutting off one method of operation. It'll be interesting to see what they do (attempt to buy out the bitcoins, interrupt the network, criminilize exchanges)

It's obvious to me they'll just end the exchangers. Just end them. Rubble. The exchange process is the weak link in the system.

Even if you disagree with my idea that most of the activity happening on bitcoin is HYIPs and other similar vapor, rather than real commerce, -- and that's fine, it's not like anyone has any real statistics on it to prove anything either way -- even if you disagree with that, you should still be able to agree that exchanges are the weak link. They have to be tied into the banking system to function.

It's not for the faint of heart, but a few percent in a portfolio is pretty reasonable. It's probably a lot less risky (and more transparent) than a lot of the crazier derivative investments that are out there.

Using "bitcoin" and "portfolio" in the same sentence is the wrong, wrong idea; a bad idea. But as you say, maybe you like risk, and people make bad investments all the time. Just do not cry when there are no exchangers to convert your bitcoins into dollars.

[Indy Vidual]

...to convert your bitcoins into dollars.

Some people don't want to convert BTC to worthless paper money.

[DEGuy]

It's obvious to me they'll just end the exchangers. Just end them. Rubble. The exchange process is the weak link in the system.

Even if you disagree with my idea that most of the activity happening on bitcoin is HYIPs and other similar vapor, rather than real commerce, -- and that's fine, it's not like anyone has any real statistics on it to prove anything either way -- even if you disagree with that, you should still be able to agree that exchanges are the weak link. They have to be tied into the banking system to function.

Using "bitcoin" and "portfolio" in the same sentence is the wrong, wrong idea; a bad idea. But as you say, maybe you like risk, and people make bad investments all the time. Just do not cry when there are no exchangers to convert your bitcoins into dollars.

I mostly agree with you on the first point. Governments have already taken swipes at some of the exchanges, and it's possible they could shut them down completely and leave the bitcoin market in shambles or nonexistant.

However, governments can also do the same thing with practically any currency that's being traded. I think we shut trading rials out of world markets as part of the embargo. But that doesn't mean that rials couldn't be a part of someone's portfolio. A risky move sure, but still a legitimate investment. My point was that the risk/reward ratio is pretty reasonable, which is my opinion. And like I said, a few percent (1 or 2) max as an investment under the "I don't mind losing this money, but there is an outside chance it'll pay off well" category. Along the same lines as lottery tickets.

[helmuth_hubener]

However, governments can also do the same thing with practically any currency that's being traded. I think we shut trading rials out of world markets as part of the embargo. But that doesn't mean that rials couldn't be a part of someone's portfolio. A risky move sure, but still a legitimate investment. My point was that the risk/reward ratio is pretty reasonable, which is my opinion. And like I said, a few percent (1 or 2) max as an investment under the "I don't mind losing this money, but there is an outside chance it'll pay off well" category. Along the same lines as lottery tickets.

True.

Under the influence of Harry Browne, I split things into speculations and investments. Bitcoin I would consider a speculation.

[hazek]

True.

Under the influence of Harry Browne, I split things into speculations and investments. Bitcoin I would consider a speculation.

Buying bitcoins just on expectations of a higher market price is definitely speculation. Using bitcoins as a currency in a global payment system in as many transactions as you can in your daily life is not.

[Kluge]

Thought you guys may appreciate knowing there's a more centralized gold-backed (yes, real gold in vaults) "e-debt" in the works. Similarities to a currency, and could be used as currency in the same way a collateralized bond could. This "e-debt" can be redeemed for physical gold, Bitcoins, or kept as redeemable-for-gold e-debt. Yes, it will of course include an currency exchange - one which coincidentally already has a decent track-record.

In addition, the business launching this will be concurrently launching a pawn shop using a "passed-through" pawn license valid in 50 states, and even a credit union chartered with an aim at tech startups. Assuming multiple offices, this means you can "wire" someone in a different city USD/gold/e-debt (they get to choose what to redeem these debt instruments as -- it could also be redeemed for items in the pawn store) by pawning/selling your items. More importantly, this gives the company MSB licensing exclusion in all 50 states, so it's immune against the legal piledriving e-gold suffered. All of this will be housed in a franchise-able tech-friendly and community-oriented hostel where "dorms" are upstairs and bring in the steady income, while ground-level space is used for the various physical/online commercial ventures.

If you have $10k+ (seeking at least $350k total within a few months) and some interest, there's definitely a big initial capital requirement which needs to be addressed as most everything (less the rental units) needs to be launched simultaneously. Things are being done carefully but daringly -- things are moving fast, but there are two competent lawyers working for/with the company, including a lawyer working for a nation's leading payment processor. Certainly more details available if you'd like. If you're in/around San Francisco (will be in Mission District), you could visit the building and operators. There's expected to be some form of an "Investors' Open House" within a couple months, possibly early next month.


Cheers,
Ben (first time *I* have posted in quite a few months)

[helmuth_hubener]

Thanks, Ben. That's very exciting. Would the investment be for equity, or are they selling bonds/debentures?

[hazek]

Hmm it seems like bitcoins are headed for another bubble valuation, we had significant exchange rate jump in the past 24h, from $7.6 to almost $9 per 1BTC, which is pretty crazy compared to the last 6 months of relative stability. I wonder where this is going from here on out?

You can follow the price movements here:
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Live trading:
http://btccharts.com/#m=mtgox-BTC-USD

EDIT: nvm, it was just someone manipulating the market and making a killing doing it

[DEGuy]

Hmm it seems like bitcoins are headed for another bubble valuation, we had significant exchange rate jump in the past 24h, from $7.6 to almost $9 per 1BTC, which is pretty crazy compared to the last 6 months of relative stability. I wonder where this is going from here on out?

You can follow the price movements here:
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Live trading:
http://btccharts.com/#m=mtgox-BTC-USD

EDIT: nvm, it was just someone manipulating the market and making a killing doing it

Yeah, I wish I'd been watching at that time and sold some BTC at the peak. Of course, it's still up pretty high, gonna unload a little bit and take some profit.