Update: Just spoke to bus companies

[RachelFaith]

who is rachelfaith?

Just a small town girl, living in a lonely world...

[IDefendThePlatform]

"Tracking down" = Drew Ivers giving the list to one of us.

Yeah pretty much. Then we call them and ask every single one if they are willing to be Meetup coordinator if we "ronpaulnation" pay for the Meetup and give them direction on what to do.

[RachelFaith]

I suggest more reason and logic and less appeals to emotion.

Sure. 5 points. Nothing but cold logic.

1 - Numbers. It is easier to get 5000-10000 supporters identified and active than 50,000 which is how many Huckabee had when he won. It is mathematically 10 times easier. That is the Straw Poll vs the Caucus.

2 - The Straw poll comes first. A poor showing will demotivate supporters and potential supporters. A win, would be in the major news for weeks or months. It would energize the base and it would shut up all those who say "but he has no support".

3 - It is cheaper. 1 million will win the Iowa Straw Poll. For any candidate. Herman Cain could win if he followed the plan. He won't and he doesn't have the money. But he could. And winning this one costs less than trying to spread it out over nationwide TV and 50 states or a 3 state or a 5 state strategy.

4 - A Ron Paul crushing win will cause other Tea Party pretenders to withdraw. Normally half of the dozen or so who fall into the bottom of the Summer Straw Poll drop out. Huckabee and Palin have said they might make up their minds by then. Obviously they are watching to see what happens and if it isn't anything shocking, they can jump in to save America. Ron Paul needs to happen to prevent that.

5 - National isn't going to do this. They believe it is already won by the establishment and think 1 million for 1 day is not worth the risk. So, if it is going to be done. If we are not going to repeat the errors of 2007, someone else needs to do it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

So we supposedly have this list of 10,000 names (or at least 20 locals in IA have a copy) or was that 18,000 names. As noted before, knowing where these people live would help a lot. Like what cities have the most supporters.

Brushing aside every idea except raise 1 million dollars and do a mass bus thing at $100 a head isn't going to work, because we are not going to raise 1 Million dollars for one straw poll.

I still think a chip in for $360 and smartly buying IA supporters 3 months of meetup and a central group where local leaders can communicate would be a great first step. Then, if there is need, we could help with phone banking or setting up a website to register on certain routes or help raise funds if some cities need a bus but can't afford one. Get them started, let them ask for help and move on to other early straw poll states.

btw: why is IA the "easiest" straw poll to win? A second or third in IA would still be a win in my book.

-t

edit: that would be 23/24 meetups with 3 for 1 from meetup.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Yes, start the Meetups and get a central group. And a phone bank. I have one phone number of an RP supporter in my county and I'm calling him tomorrow. Hopefully we will be getting a Meetup and a bus/carpool of some sort organized.

[nayjevin]

That is non-specific. Why don't you walk us through such a scenario?

There are Republican nominees in history who did not win the Iowa straw poll.

I'm not downlplaying the importance of doing the best we can at the straw poll. I believe we can win. But to say we must win or it's over is a tired old tactic of our enemies, which will promote the idea that 'it's over' if he gets second place. It's not over.

Every bit of effort toward the straw poll is exponential to the causes of liberty. There is a dichotomy of opinion as to whether the seat is everything. But with a wide view of the goal of liberty, second place would be HUGE.

Just a small town girl, living in a lonely world...

Can you tell us some more about that please? Like something relevant to whether we should trust you.

Sure. 5 points. Nothing but cold logic.

Logic is not cold.

1 - Numbers. It is easier to get 5000-10000 supporters identified and active than 50,000 which is how many Huckabee had when he won. It is mathematically 10 times easier. That is the Straw Poll vs the Caucus.

2 - The Straw poll comes first. A poor showing will demotivate supporters and potential supporters. A win, would be in the major news for weeks or months. It would energize the base and it would shut up all those who say "but he has no support".

3 - It is cheaper. 1 million will win the Iowa Straw Poll. For any candidate. Herman Cain could win if he followed the plan. He won't and he doesn't have the money. But he could. And winning this one costs less than trying to spread it out over nationwide TV and 50 states or a 3 state or a 5 state strategy.

4 - A Ron Paul crushing win will cause other Tea Party pretenders to withdraw. Normally half of the dozen or so who fall into the bottom of the Summer Straw Poll drop out. Huckabee and Palin have said they might make up their minds by then. Obviously they are watching to see what happens and if it isn't anything shocking, they can jump in to save America. Ron Paul needs to happen to prevent that.

5 - National isn't going to do this. They believe it is already won by the establishment and think 1 million for 1 day is not worth the risk. So, if it is going to be done. If we are not going to repeat the errors of 2007, someone else needs to do it.

None of this addresses the point. Why centralized planning busses versus decentralized individual desire realization? It seems you don't understand liberty to me.

[torchbearer]

Just a small town girl, living in a lonely world...

are you ready to make things happen in Iowa?
what you do there will make history.

[nayjevin]

2 - The Straw poll comes first. A poor showing will demotivate supporters and potential supporters.

Not a fact. It might demotivate you, which would show your weakness as a liberty advocate.

5 - National isn't going to do this.

Source?

They believe it is already won by the establishment and think 1 million for 1 day is not worth the risk.

Source?

So, if it is going to be done. If we are not going to repeat the errors of 2007, someone else needs to do it.

But why do it in a centralized, expensive manner that is reportable to the FEC as in kind donations?

[RachelFaith]

Why centralized planning busses versus decentralized individual desire realization? It seems you don't understand liberty to me.

Well, if you want to accomplish something, and others have done it using certain skills and actions, it is best to follow that example. I would not try to climb Everest without following those procedures exactly. Others have tried and they are dead.

Logistic reality. You cannot move thousands of people to one location without serious focus and effort. Having worked at and been at every Straw Poll since I was a kid, and having practice with corporate disaster recovery operations in the real world, without a plan, well executed, all else is folly. Now if you have an example or have done some other functions related without any sort of centralized structure, we'd all love to see the plan...

Liberty is not anarchy it is voluntary mutual cooperation for a common cause. In this case Ron Paul winning by an earth crushing victory that propels him to win the Caucus, then raise millions more dollars from new fans and supporters who because of these wins can believe in his message.

Sure, I know you don't need that to believe. But you are the exception. The masses, yearning for liberty but brainwashed by the system need a sign. I intend to help those who believe we must send one. That is all.

[nayjevin]

Well, if you want to accomplish something, and others have done it using certain skills and actions, it is best to follow that example. I would not try to climb Everest without following those procedures exactly. Others have tried and they are dead.

Cart before horse. We need enough people at the straw poll to win. Others have won the straw poll, using varied methods with questionable similarities.

1st goal: Get all Ron Paul supporters who can vote to be there.
2nd goal: Find those who cannot get there.
3rd goal: Help them get there or encourage them/aide them in finding a way to get there.

You argue there is only one solution, and that is to secure expensive buses before any proof of the campaign's official plan. And you are simultaneously saying the campaign has no plan/doesn't care/ will fall through.

Logistic reality. You cannot move thousands of people to one location without serious focus and effort.

Question is where is that focus, where is that effort. You are arguing it should come from a central command. I argue efficiency is in the individual. Localism.

Having worked at and been at every Straw Poll since I was a kid, and having practice with corporate disaster recovery operations in the real world, without a plan, well executed, all else is folly.

This says nothing as to what plan is best.

Now if you have an example or have done some other functions related without any sort of centralized structure, we'd all love to see the plan...

Wikipedia. FreedomAtlas.org. Meetup.com. Moneybombs vs. fundraising dinners. BitTorrent. Open source technologies.

Liberty is not anarchy

What I'm arguing for is 'anarchy'? lol. Yet another tired old tactic of the central planners, the enemies of freedom for the individual.

it is voluntary mutual cooperation for a common cause.

Yes. Your argument comes off to me as saying I should just hush and cooperate. I am voluntarily addressing what I see to be problems with the solutions you are proposing.

In this case Ron Paul winning by an earth crushing victory that propels him to win the Caucus, then raise millions more dollars from new fans and supporters who because of these wins can believe in his message.

Stop acting like we don't agree on Ron Paul winning, or doing the best we can to make it happen. We differ on the approach.

[nayjevin]

Voluntary mutual cooperation for a common cause - carpooling.

[RachelFaith]

We differ on approach yes. But, in this case, that is all the matters. You site wiki and bit torrent as examples? We are talking getting people off their butts to donate money to the GOP and give up a nice Saturday. While here we are sitting at home posting on a blog. Not a good example.

I am saying. Firmly. Directly. That the only proven, effective, means of moving thousands of people in a few hours time is with exceptional planning and execution.

I know that can be done, has been done and I have done it. If you wish to do it some other way. Be my guest. I don't know how, and have never seen it done any other way and have seen many try and fail a miserable lesson. And thus I strongly suggest that we not experiment with so much at stake. Go with what you know works.

Because, last time for Ron and other times for others, they just went with the let our people know and they will do the right thing. Problem is people don't. I wish they would, it would be so much easier. But I also can't prove you wrong, until you fail. and I really don't want to say "I told you so" as Huckabee is sworn in.

It is the case of practical experience. I've been there and done that as have many others. So, I offer it up. You can tell me to go away and pack sand if you think that is the best plan.

[nayjevin]

You site wiki and bit torrent as examples?

Don't blame me for answering your irrelevant questions.

We are talking getting people off their butts to donate money to the GOP and give up a nice Saturday. While here we are sitting at home posting on a blog. Not a good example.

Irrelevant rephrasing. Disguised ad hominem attack against people who would find a path via communicating on the Internet. Obvious disdain for anyone who doesn't do what 'official campaign' and those who act like they are (like yourself) would have them do.

I am saying. Firmly. Directly. That the only proven, effective, means of moving thousands of people in a few hours time is with exceptional planning and execution.

You keep arguing this point as though someone disagrees with you. Again, we disagree on the plan only. And one of us is trying to find the best one with an open mind.

I know that can be done, has been done and I have done it. If you wish to do it some other way. Be my guest. I don't know how, and have never seen it done any other way and have seen many try and fail a miserable lesson. And thus I strongly suggest that we not experiment with so much at stake. Go with what you know works.

Because, last time for Ron and other times for others, they just went with the let our people know and they will do the right thing. Problem is people don't. I wish they would, it would be so much easier. But I also can't prove you wrong, until you fail. and I really don't want to say "I told you so" as Huckabee is sworn in.

What's with the holier than thou? What's with the 'I'm right and you'll be sorry'? It's obvious if the plan isn't yours you will blame everyone but yourself if it doesn't result in a 1st place finish.

It is the case of practical experience. I've been there and done that as have many others. So, I offer it up. You can tell me to go away and pack sand if you think that is the best plan.

No one told you to. Quit putting words in people's mouths. You need to argue that your plan is the best. It is the plan of the status quo. It is the plan of Mitt Romney. It is the centralized plan. It is one that argues $200,000 needs to go to bus companies who may or may not be moral entities. It is the one that discourages the default state - self organization. It is the plan that asks people to re-direct attention, time, focus, and money toward your plan - which no one has ever done before - which is outside the campaign - which involves a 3rd party PAC - which ignores human nature - which discourages neighborhood organizing...

Prove it is the best idea. Without appeal to authority. Without ad hominem attack. Without 'I'm better than you at this, follow me'. With facts and ideas.

[Dave Aiello]

It is the plan that asks people to re-direct attention, time, focus, and money toward your plan - which no one has ever done before - which is outside the campaign - which involves a 3rd party PAC - which ignores human nature - which discourages neighborhood organizing...

Prove it is the best idea.

I'm pretty sure this isn't her plan.. the majority of people here will agree that this needs to be done. It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, and it is the method that has been implemented by winning campaigns in the past. If we go with an alternate strategy, we do so at the risk of it not being doable logistically or ineffective. We need to stick with what we know can work.

[nayjevin]

I don't mean to disparage others' opinions through my little lovefest with RachelFaith. I appreciate ya.

I'm pretty sure this isn't her plan..

Good point.

the majority of people here will agree that this needs to be done.

Possibly. There could also be many like me who were disgusted at the prospect of having to debunk it. I don't like this.

It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, and it is the method that has been implemented by winning campaigns in the past.

But we aren't the campaign. There are other ways - I don't think it's fair to say it's the only thing that makes sense. Plus we can't do it through the campaign -we'll be a 3rd party, operating through different hoops, without the same channels for organizing and communicating. This plan is a wholly different animal than anything ever done before.

Moneybombs were non-traditional. That is grassroots innovation. Why don't we set the standard here too? 1-800-getaride. couch-hop-iowa.com. Not the greatest ideas, you get the point. Outside the box! The whole thing really feels like Romneyesque, establishment thinking to me.

If we go with an alternate strategy, we do so at the risk of it not being doable logistically or ineffective. We need to stick with what we know can work.

There's plenty of risk of not raising $200,000, not securing buses. Can't ignore the risk of this plan. Again, it's never been done before by grassroots, 3rd party PAC, outside of the campaign. Also not fair to argue alternate strategies are risky without seeing the alternate strategy. Also not fair to pin the risk on being doable logistically or ineffective - all plans have that same risk.

Again, the only person claiming to have experience and knowledge of what plans have actually been used before, how they've been implemented logistically - is a person who has criticized the official campaign by claiming they have no plan (no proof though of course), has thus far avoided all of my mentions of this fact, and is offering only appeals to authority for reasoning behind following her plan. Thank you for being more reasonable.

I'll be honest here, I was okay with trying to do buses. But what made me think in my head that I would not donate to this was when I saw you were planning to purchase a website. Websites are very easy to make and don't require experts. We have plenty of people who could do it here.

I'd like to see someone who is implementing infrastructure that facilitates rides by individuals. That seems to align more with freedom to me (which I know is the successful route).

Renting a bus, finding people to fill it - fine. Renting 1000 buses and trying to argue that's logistically sane? Nyet.

[Dave Aiello]

is a person who has criticized the official campaign by claiming they have no plan (no proof though of course), has thus far avoided all of my mentions of this fact

There is good reason that she has avoided your mentions of this fact - trust me on this one.

I'll be honest here, I was okay with trying to do buses. But what made me think in my head that I would not donate to this was when I saw you were planning to purchase a website. Websites are very easy to make and don't require experts. We have plenty of people who could do it here.

I'm a web designer myself, and believe me, I cringe at the thought of having to actually pay for a website. However, the reason why it may be justified at this point in time is because we need some functionality which requires intricate coding (money bomb module, secure bus registration & database, etc.), and also, we don't have a month to spare if we're looking to develop a site from scratch. The company we would buy the site from caters specifically to politicans / organizations who need our specific functionality (netboots.net).

[nayjevin]

That plan assumes raising money into a pac and then renting the buses is the best plan. I don't believe it is - but admittedly that's not based on expert legal knowledge - it's based on my strong belief that central planning is inferior to the alternative.

We could have a subforum here where rides can be requested and offered. We could have a google maps interface on a website. Perhaps it could be incorporated into freedomatlas, I don't know. But even that assumes something should be done: providing facilitation and tools for connecting people. Are the tools already there? To me that's the first question. If not, the second question is: is the campaign going to provide the tools?

Consider this: let's say the plan is simply, contact everyone in Iowa and tell them to go to the straw poll. Why do we think the campaign won't do that?

If we can be sure the campaign is not doing something, fine. That's where grassroots comes in. And the campaign will likely let us know of specific requests. Right now they are encouraging support for the moneybomb. But don't expect hundreds of thousands of dollars for something that may be a duplication of effort, but can't be proven not to be.

[Roxi]

//

[teacherone]

who's talking about campaign funded buses?

this is grassroots funded buses we're talking about.

[Dave Aiello]

not not, but HELL NO. I will take no part in even entertaining an action that I made serious fun of at the 07 straw poll. Do you KNOW how much we made fun of Romney supporters? The official campaign paying for that in any capacity is sick. Carpools and transportation paid for through chip ins, cool. Campaign funded buses. Fail.

Ok, let's make fun of the Romney buses while they DESTROY us in the polls again this time? It's almost like you WANT Ron to lose. This is very well our ONE opportunity to prove that Ron SHOULD be taken seriously.

Nay- The campaign encouraged Iowa supporters to come to the poll in 07 - but they didn't provide buses, and what happened? 5th place, behind Tom Tancredo, Romney, Huck, Brownback. WHAT DO THEY ALL HAVE IN COMMON? They all had buses. Rogue chip-ins and ron-voys sound great, but not if we're in it to win it. Sometimes, you have to play the game. We can't afford to pull any punches when so much is on the line. Ames is really a make or break event for Ron.

Have you all read Doug Wead's blog? If not, I'd suggest doing so if you're questioning the importance of the ames straw poll.

[teacherone]

busing people in =/= paying posers to be supporters.

if there are supporters who want to vote but don't have transportation then we should provide it.

[Verrater]

Ok, let's make fun of the Romney buses while they DESTROY us in the polls again this time? It's almost like you WANT Ron to lose. This is very well our ONE opportunity to prove that Ron SHOULD be taken seriously.

Nay- The campaign encouraged Iowa supporters to come to the poll in 07 - but they didn't provide buses, and what happened? 5th place, behind Tom Tancredo, Romney, Huck, Brownback. WHAT DO THEY ALL HAVE IN COMMON? They all had buses. Rogue chip-ins and ron-voys sound great, but not if we're in it to win it. Sometimes, you have to play the game. We can't afford to pull any punches when so much is on the line. Ames is really a make or break event for Ron.

Have you all read Doug Wead's blog? If not, I'd suggest doing so if you're questioning the importance of the ames straw poll.

I agree, and I know my opinion has no bearing here.

We aren't playing to make a point, we have to play to win.

[rp08orbust]

You argue there is only one solution, and that is to secure expensive buses before any proof of the campaign's official plan. And you are simultaneously saying the campaign has no plan/doesn't care/ will fall through.

I believe it makes sense to assume the official campaign has no plan until they prove otherwise because

1) By the time we find out whether the official campaign is serious about winning the Ames straw poll (i.e., is willing to spend the $1M necessary to win it), it is too late for a grassroots campaign to raise that much money and execute the winning plan (i.e., the only plan that has worked in the past: Busing in supporters, feeding them, entertaining them and busing them back home). The straw poll is only three months away.

2) Until we see otherwise, the safest assumption is that the 2012 presidential campaign will be very similar to the 2008 presidential campaign, which did not spend $1M on winning the Ames straw poll through proven means.

In short, the burden of proof should be on those claiming the official campaign has the Ames straw poll covered.

[nayjevin]

Okay let's try not to go around in circles again.

Agreed:
- Straw poll is important
- As many votes as possible is the goal

Again, how to do it?

Comparing last times results to this time only goes so far. In alot of ways, it's apples to oranges. Back then, people were surprised we did as well as we did. We were all grassroots, everyone who was there bought their way, and we didn't have the headstart we have today.

And we have so many more supporters now, better connected, ready for this. So without changing anything at all we will automatically do better than last time - I'm guessing by quite a bit. Remember - very few Ron Paul supporters leave once they get in. All the other candidates have plenty of information out there about them that makes them vulnerable to attrition in a way Ron never will be.

Nay- The campaign encouraged Iowa supporters to come to the poll in 07 - but they didn't provide buses, and what happened? 5th place, behind Tom Tancredo, Romney, Huck, Brownback.

Just because all serial killers have eaten popcorn doesn't mean popcorn causes serial killers. So what happened? Ron did amazingly well, with little preparation and little funding.

WHAT DO THEY ALL HAVE IN COMMON? They all had buses.

Same point in reverse. You're missing the big story here - which I believe was commonly understood then. And that is that the other candidates spent TONS of money to do stuff like bus supporters in and did not receive an expected return for the money spent - especially when compared with Ron's campaign - who placed higher than anyone expected on minimal funds. I wanna say it was practically common knowledge that we had exposed the big secret - you can't buy the vote, but if people are passionate they will show up.

Rogue chip-ins and ron-voys sound great, but not if we're in it to win it.

What makes you think that? Chip-ins were the big success of the last campaign - they are another iconic representation of bottom-up vs. top-down organizing. They helped us define what modern grassroots politicking can be.

Sometimes, you have to play the game.

Valid point, but this isn't one of those times - for the grassroots to rent buses.

If you're looking for the Ron Paul campaign to be like other campaigns you will be disappointed. We win from the bottom up - it's what the movement is all about. Now does that mean no organization? Of course not. But time and time again we showed that doing it locally and non-traditionally can be successful - and at far less cost.

Ok, let's make fun of the Romney buses while they DESTROY us in the polls again this time? It's almost like you WANT Ron to lose. This is very well our ONE opportunity to prove that Ron SHOULD be taken seriously.

Yeah he's already taken seriously this time. I would argue that anyone who doesn't take him seriously will be surprised by any top 3 finish. If it's reported

Now let me paint a picture of what the straw poll was like to give you a backstory of what Roxi is saying.

Ron Paul people parked and walked to the straw poll, meeting at a single tent the campaign had set up. Leading up the walk to the tent were signs that featured quotes from founding fathers. 'Ron Paul Radio' was broadcasting live from a shaded booth. Jeff Frazee was doing a roving webcast from a camera on his hat. Entrepreneurs were selling t-shirts, buttons, bumperstickers, and more. It was seriously fun... and friendly.

Walk around the campgrounds and it's a different story - a parking lot full of 'Team Romney' buses. 'Team Romney' yellow shirts made it easy to profile... it seems today looking back that every one of them had sunglasses and a dour expression. There'd be 'Team Romney' officials driving around in campaign supplied golf carts - one leg hanging off the side of course - cruising around like elite fraternities.

FairTax has an amusement park setup, who knows what a budgetary debacle that was. The other campaigns had obviously blown their entire warchests in an all out sprint. And Ron still competed - on the strength of honesty, consistency of principle, and a dedicated following. Weeks and months afterwards the stories were all trying to figure out why it worked - precisely because nothing like Ron's campaign happens to the other candidates. Because it is bottom up.

So why change back to the old style? It seems to me that it's not only avoiding our strengths, but less effective. With so many more people now, and so much better communication, all it really takes is for people to know the straw poll is important. Then they will find a way to get there - at no cost to the campaign.

Chipins will help immensely, for people who can't get the gas money together or the money for the tickets. Facebook, email, and cellphones will work to coordinate who is riding with who.

So, in my mind, there is no question that, without changing anything at all, without spending a single dime:
- the same number of supporters would do a better job turning out the vote
- we have way more supporters

Therefore any centralized plan to do a better job than 'the free market' so to speak, has the responsibility to show how that will be the case. Because we already showed the world how decentralization can rock the establishment - and many campaigns are starting to emulate us. It's hard to do without embracing liberty

[Dave Aiello]

I believe it makes sense to assume the official campaign has no plan until they prove otherwise because

There is reason to believe that the campaign will be implementing the same strategy that they did in 07. I will leave it at that.

[rp08orbust]

What is the advantage of central planning this? Why not decentralize?

First of all, there's no reason both can't happen simultaneously. Nothing about the traditional strategy of busing in supporters rules out you organizing carpools on Facebook or whatever.

As for centralization vs decentralization, I would say decentralization is best whenever creativity is necessary because there is no agreed-upon end product.

In the case of the Ames straw poll, the end product is straightforward: To put at least 5,000 live bodies in Ames on August 13 who will vote for Ron Paul. It's mindless brute force. Nothing about this contradicts libertarian principles as long as coercion is not used.

[nayjevin]

busing people in =/= paying posers to be supporters.

Very good point. Providing rides is good. How about people in Iowa look into renting the most cost-effective means of transporting people from their area? That way a one-size-fits-all bus plan doesn't suffer from the other better choices that may be out there. With this plan, we're needing someone to figure out what the best method of transportation is for other people. Why not allow them the liberty to do it themselves?

if there are supporters who want to vote but don't have transportation then we should provide it.

I agree - I think chipins are perfect for such a thing.

I believe it makes sense to assume the official campaign has no plan until they prove otherwise because

1) By the time we find out whether the official campaign is serious about winning the Ames straw poll (i.e., is willing to spend the $1M necessary to win it),

Conflating 'renting buses' or 'spending money' with 'serious about winning' needs to stop. Can't we see how this is the establishment mindset? Spending money doesn't solve problems... throwing money at it... Would anyone really be unhappy if there was a way to win for free? Well we've already shown we can get votes much more cheaply than the other candidates. The big story was the votes per dollar spent by the campaign on Iowa last time. IIRC, Ron won that statistic! So use the same model.

...it is too late for a grassroots campaign to raise that much money and execute the winning plan (i.e., the only plan that has worked in the past: Busing in supporters, feeding them, entertaining them and busing them back home). The straw poll is only three months away.

2) Until we see otherwise, the safest assumption is that the 2012 presidential campaign will be very similar to the 2008 presidential campaign, which did not spend $1M on winning the Ames straw poll through proven means.

I hope you see at this point that the plan last time did work - there just wasn't enough support yet. Bank on human action. People who are willing are ready to make voluntary trades - money for tickets. So long as they understand the importance of the straw poll.

In short, the burden of proof should be on those claiming the official campaign has the Ames straw poll covered.

I don't say they do. I say 'central command' can't cover everything. I think the focus should be on whether individuals have rides and tickets.

[teacherone]

these threads piss me off.

no one said busing people in through monies raised by a PAC is the only option.

other options can be exercised simultaneously.

let the market decide which option is the most efficient and stop trying to discourage activists who are actually doing something.

[nayjevin]

First of all, there's no reason both can't happen simultaneously. Nothing about the traditional strategy of busing in supporters rules out you organizing carpools on Facebook or whatever.

Good point. And the bigger the vehicle, the better the gas/per person. What about 'Des Moines bus'. 'Who has a Des Moines bus?' 'I think sally white and jimmy smith are both doing one... contact the meetup.' 'What about the Smalltown bus?' 'They're doing a van instead' and... 'I live in the country so my family members are meeting up at the waffle house and carpooling'

As for centralization vs decentralization, I would say decentralization is best whenever creativity is necessary because there is no agreed-upon end product.

In the case of the Ames straw poll, the end product is straightforward: To put at least 5,000 live bodies in Ames on August 13 who will vote for Ron Paul. It's mindless brute force. Nothing about this contradicts libertarian principles as long as coercion is not used.

Very good points. Getting people there is truly the only goal. Sending money to 'Washington' and having 'bureaucrats' decide where it's best used though? That's kind of what this sounds like to me.

[cdc482]

How much extra would it be to let them get as far as the east coast (NY, NJ)?
We could get a lot more people if we set up buses from the east coast (even just 1 trip).