How does Ron explain this one? It may be an incentive to stay in America for illegals, but what else gives us our citizenship? Will newborns have to apply?
What would be constitutional about changing this?
Originally Posted by bc2208
Its fairly complex and cannot be explained in 1 sentence.
But, heres a bit of the jist.
The 14th Amendment was intended to keep slavery from popping back up after the civil war, but was used as the basis for birthright citizenship which did not exist before the amendment.
I dont know how he thinks he will change this, except by getting the right judges in or changing the Constitution. I personally think it is an issue that will not be a priority of his if elected.
Last edited by austin356; 10-24-2007 at 07:13 PM.
It would only apply to children born to parents here illegally.
I like the idea. Bye bye illegals. His plan calls for the end of birthright citizenship for illegals. I am sure it automatic birthright citizenship still applies to legal citizen's children. And yes it is constitutional. In fact letting Illegals in this country at any point is unconstitutional.
Please quote me that section.
I'm kind of opposed to getting rid of it. But FYI, very very few countries have birthright citizenship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
By letting I meant letting them stay is illegal, I doubt its illegal for them to enter for a temporary basis like the guest worker program.
My mom is a LEGAL immigrant who became a US citizen. She insisted on becoming a citizen before having children.
On the flip side: My ex-girlfriend was a labor and delivery nurse. They had to have a full-time translator on staff because of all the women who could not speak a lick of english. Do you think they paid with insurance? Nope, Medicaid.
It's a bad deal for us. But a great deal for an illegal:
1. Sneak in.
2. Get knocked up.
3. Medicaid pays for delivery.
4. Kid is a citizen.
5. Roots in the country now.
6. Kid gets free education and free health insurance.
7. Vote for Hillary and be entitled to a baby bond!
All the other candidate's solutions involve force (because that's all these dunder-heads know). Ron says, take out all the incentives. Then the only people who want to come here will be the ones who want to make a better life (like my mom who went to college and became a CPA). Not a bunch of abusers who want to suck of the government teet.
Last edited by JPFromTally; 10-24-2007 at 07:24 PM.
“We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.”
So you didn't mean that it was "unconstitutional", right?
I thought he said something to the effect that illegals are technically invaders under the constitution so birth right citizenship does not apply to them and the 14th amendment has been being used unconsitutionally. But I'm not 100% sure if that is correct.
A regrettably offensive position. Sounds more like Tancredo. Show me where this noxious idea is supported by the Constitution. It isn't.
It is oddly funny that the one distinctive requirement to be president is that the individual be a "natural born citizen" which is to say a citizen at birth. To end "birthright citizenship" one would have to amend Article II and the 14th Amendment.
He wants a Constitutional amendment.
I sincerely hope they do end birthright citizenship - technically I think its a misinterpretation of that amendment to hand out citizenship to all who break our laws to get here.
Its one of the biggest reasons for illegal immigration. We need to end it.
Virginia - 8th Congressional District
Want to help Ron Paul in northern virginia? PM me
I'd like as many people as possible to get citizenship, and the legal path for Mexicans to immigrate to the United States is insane and draconian.
This is the one thing I'm not 100% on. Not big enough an issue for me rly worry on though, Ron Paul's my guy.
Everbody had to at least "register" themselves since the begining of America... in the 1630's Englishmen and others had to register and work in society to be eligible as a "freeman" and have rights to participate (i.e. vote) in the society. If you participated in owning a slave, you had to register your slaves - a fact that is stated in the Constitution as well: Article 1, Section 9:So, some sort of registration of people entering this country has always been required, and is stipulated in the Constitution.The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
I believe that Ron just wants to make citizenship work like it does for most of the countries in the world: if your mother is a citizen, then you are automatically a citizen, regardless of your geographical location at the time of birth.
This is in stark contrast to our 14th amendment, that simply says if you are physically present within US juristicion when born that you are a citizen.
We currntly have citizens by blood, and by location. Most contries don't do that...they just have by blood citizenship.
I'm pretty comfortable with the "blood right" citizenship being the exclusive means of at birth citizenship.
Why is this in the grassroots forum...?
Don't reward/subsidize those who stay here illegally. They have got to pay the cost of delivery, foods, education, etc. for their kids THEMSELVES.
One or Two Parents who are American citizens. Thus the child will be an American citizen. Instead of an illegal immigrant couple making a dash for the border in their last trimester so that the child is a Citizen.
Yah the rules are ridiculous. The 14th Amendment doesn't make any sense. It really is pointless like a lot of the Amendments that came after the Civil War.
Checkout Ron Paul's legislation, write your representatives and spread the word!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legisla...ed_by_Ron_Paul
Lord of the Rings and Liberty: http://www.lewrockwell.com/carson/carson10.html
Amend the constitution, and amend it fast.....
I am 110% for this...., can I be 500% for this!
I've noticed Ron Paul is the only candidate who has brought this idea up in his platform. I agree with it 100%. It helps curb one great incentive for coming into America illegally and helps to avoid confronations in which the kid is being used as justification for the entire family to stay in America.
The fact is we have immigration laws for a reason. We may be the land of the free, but we're not the land of unlimited resources and prosperity for every human being on the planet.
It drives me insane when we reward people who knowingly break the law, expect a break, and we give it to 'em.
Not quite. Huckabee has stolen this too, and Tancredo has been pushing the idea for years.
Pro-Constitutionalists who hate the Constitution. Odd.
Yea for the record, i disagree with RP on this one, one of
only two issues I disagree with him on. I don't think changing
the constitution in this case to deal with a social problem is
the correct thing to do. Still isn't going to deter my support
for him tho, no one can be 100% right all the time
The rest of his strategy on dealing with illegals, i'm totally behind
just not sure about getting rid of birth right citizenship
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams
Not the temporarily letting them in part, I misworded it badly. I meant letting them stay, at anytime in our past (when amnesties were granted) which is unconstitutional.
It's intent was to guarantee citizenship to former slaves, and their children. It has served it's original intended purpose. Now it's just being abused.
From my experience those who say they support birthright citizenship tend to be white and, at least in part, support it because they are afraid of being labeled a racist.
My father learned English, moved here, paid his way through college, worked two jobs, became a citizen, and now is a high level engineer. So, all you of you bitching and crying about immigrants and how hard they have it can STFU. It's not racist to oppose illegal immigration or birthright citizenship.
</rant>
“It is in war that the State really comes into its own: swelling in power, in number, in pride, in absolute dominion over the economy and the society.” -- Murray Rothbard
It is a huge incentive for people to enter our country illegally. Just think, a pregnant woman can enter our country illegally, have us pay for her childbirth and then her child automatically becomes an American citizen. Voila.
Last edited by LibertyEagle; 10-24-2007 at 08:42 PM.
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