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Thread: Creator of the Liberty Dollar Found Guilty

  1. #1

    Default Creator of the Liberty Dollar Found Guilty

    http://coinworld.com/News/20110328/B...720110328.aspx

    Bernard von NotHaus, creator of the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty on two counts this morning in his counterfeiting trial at the federal courthouse in Statesville, N.C.

    He was found guilty of making counterfeit coins and an intent to defraud. Sentencing will be held in several months.

    The jury reached its decision in less than 90 minutes.

    Forfeiture hearings began after the verdict was read in regard to property belonging to von NotHaus and others that was seized by the U.S. government.
    At least there is one less terrorist to worry about now:

    “Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict.

    http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel...1/ce031811.htm
    Last edited by RonPaulFanInGA; 03-18-2011 at 05:21 PM.



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  3. #2

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    this is such bull$#@!

  4. #3

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    And the Federal Reserve is defrauding the entire world on a scale never seen before in all of history.....amazing is right.

  5. #4

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    The jury reached its decision in less than 90 minutes.
    This!!!

  6. #5

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    I tried to buy one, I had no thought for a second that it was anything but a collector's item, and the charge kept going back and forth on my account, and then they cancelled my card for my own protection. (I wasn't asked and was overseas with no debit card.) I don't know that I was buying it from him, though, it was on ebay. This is before I'd heard anything about it.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    this is such bull$#@!
    that, and it gets even better...

    STATESVILLE, NC—Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted today by a federal jury of making, possessing, and selling his own coins, announced Anne M. Tompkins, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina. Following an eight-day trial and less than two hours of deliberation, von NotHaus, the founder and monetary architect of a currency known as the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty by a jury in Statesville, North Carolina, of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling, and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States. The guilty verdict concluded an investigation which began in 2005 and involved the minting of Liberty Dollar coins with a current value of approximately $7 million. Joining the U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins in making today’s announcement are Edward J. Montooth, Acting Special Agent in Charge of the FBI, Charlotte Division; Russell F. Nelson, Special Agent in Charge of the United States Secret Service, Charlotte Division; and Sheriff Van Duncan of the Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office.

    According to the evidence introduced during the trial, von NotHaus was the founder of an organization called the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code, commonly known as NORFED and also known as Liberty Services. Von NotHaus was the president of NORFED and the executive director of Liberty Dollar Services, Inc. until on or about September 30, 2008.

    Von NotHaus designed the Liberty Dollar currency in 1998 and the Liberty coins were marked with the dollar sign ($); the words dollar, USA, Liberty, Trust in God (instead of In God We Trust); and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coinage. Since 1998, NORFED has been issuing, disseminating, and placing into circulation the Liberty Dollar in all its forms throughout the United States and Puerto Rico. NORFED’s purpose was to mix Liberty Dollars into the current money of the United States. NORFED intended for the Liberty Dollar to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with, United States currency.

    In coordination with the Department of Justice, on September 14, 2006, the United States Mint issued a press release and warning to American citizens that the Liberty Dollar was “not legal tender.” The U.S. Mint press release and public service announcement stated that the Department of Justice had determined that the use of Liberty Dollars as circulating money was a federal crime.

    Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. This power was delegated to Congress in order to establish and preserve a uniform standard of value and to insure a singular monetary system for all purchases and debts in the United States, public and private. Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority in order to protect and preserve the constitutional currency for the benefit of all citizens of the nation. It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.

    Von NotHaus, who remains free on bond, faces a sentence of up to 15 years’ imprisonment on count two of the indictment and a fine of not more than $250,000. Von NotHaus faces a prison sentence of five years and fines of $250,000 on both counts one and three. In addition, the United States is seeking the forfeiture of approximately 16,000 pounds of Liberty Dollar coins and precious metals, currently valued at nearly $7 million. The forfeiture trial, which began today before United States District Court Judge Richard Voorhees, will resume on April 4, 2011 in the federal courthouse in Statesville. Judge Voorhees has not yet set a date for the sentencing of von NotHaus.

    “Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

    The case was investigated by the FBI, Buncombe County Sheriff’s Department, and the U.S. Secret Service, in cooperation with and invaluable assistance of the United States Mint. The case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Jill Westmoreland Rose and Craig D. Randall, and the forfeiture trial is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Tom Ascik and Ben Bain Creed.

    http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel...1/ce031811.htm
    This ruling should serve notice to all domestic terrorists in possession of gold or silver coinage who are undermining the legitimate fractional fraudulent currency of this country.

    Hip, hip, hoorah for the Constitution...
    Last edited by Live_Free_Or_Die; 03-18-2011 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #7

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    Well the guy was selling silver coins for $20 back when silver was about $14/oz. Always seemed a bit shady to me. He wasn't just selling bullion, we was trying to create an alternative currency by "tricking" people into believing his coins were redeemable for $20.


    I don't know...I'm not saying I support the state's decision. Just that this guy seemed a little bit off.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon View Post
    Well the guy was selling silver coins for $20 back when silver was about $14/oz. Always seemed a bit shady to me. He wasn't just selling bullion, we was trying to create an alternative currency by "tricking" people into believing his coins were redeemable for $20.


    I don't know...I'm not saying I support the state's decision. Just that this guy seemed a little bit off.
    I knew I was paying more than the silver value (or trying to pay). I just thought it would be cool to have a coin with Ron's face on it.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  10. #9

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    I wish I had one of them too. The original Liberty Dollar coins didn't have RP on them. I'm not sure how long they were making coins for but it definitely pre-dates Ron Paul's 2007 campaign.

  11. #10

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    I've got five of the NORFED silver 1 ounce Ron Paul rounds.

    Ebay's got 'em listed for $228

    I paid $20.



    Wish I had bought some of the gold 1 ounce rounds.

    The cost $1000.

    This is the first listing I've seen on ebay of a gold one.

    $5500

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-NORFED-1-oz...item230f1b2e01
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 03-18-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  12. #11

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    God I would have hung the $#@!ing $#@! out of that jury if I was in it.

    And when asked questions during the choosing of jurors, I would have kept my mouth shut about having any preconceived notions about such things.
    "If men are good, then they need no rulers. If men are bad, then governments of men, composed of men, will also be bad - and probably worse, due to the State's amplification of coercive power." - Ozarkia

    "Big Brother is watching. So are we." - WikiLeaks

    Laissez-nous faire, laissez-nous passer. Le monde va de lui meme.

  13. #12

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    what the $#@!.

    is he going to appeal?

  14. #13

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    Did Ron testify?
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear. -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentient Void View Post
    God I would have hung the $#@!ing $#@! out of that jury if I was in it.

    And when asked questions during the choosing of jurors, I would have kept my mouth shut about having any preconceived notions about such things.
    That's why the system won't let you or me anywhere near a jury.

    They have a whole elaborate system designed just for the purpose of keeping people like us off juries.

    Even if you keep your mouth shut.

    $#@!ers...

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailingaway View Post
    Did Ron testify?
    I don't think so, I know he was issued a subpoena to testify.

    ???

  17. #16

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    I don't understand why y'all are defending him.

    If he put $ sign and the word "dollar" on the coins then it's counterfeiting. He should be found guilty.

    If he wanted to make an alternate currency - he should have made something of silver in its own unique shape and designate the purity and weight. Without the word or $ sign. (Like maybe a marble shaped sphere.)
    Last edited by TheNcredibleEgg; 03-18-2011 at 06:00 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNcredibleEgg View Post
    I don't understand why y'all are defending him.

    If he put $ sign and the word "dollar" on the coins then it's counterfeiting. He should be found guilty.

    If he wanted to make an alternate currency - he should have made something of silver in its own unique shape and designate the purity and weight. Without the word or $ sign.
    Bernanke also puts the $ sign in the stuff he prints. He also puts the word "dollar". But dollar means an unit of silver. Bernanke also should be in jail by the same reasoning.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by low preference guy View Post
    Bernanke also puts the $ sign in the stuff he prints. He also puts the word "dollar". But dollar means an unit of silver. Bernanke also should be in jail by the same reasoning.
    Comparing him to Bernanke just solidifies my belief in his guilt - since I would likely find Bernanke guilty also.

  20. #19

    Default Put the Guilt Where It Truly Belongs

    Quote Originally Posted by Live_Free_Or_Die View Post
    that, and it gets even better...

    Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. This power was delegated to Congress in order to establish and preserve a uniform standard of value and to insure a singular monetary system for all purchases and debts in the United States, public and private. Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority in order to protect and preserve the constitutional currency for the benefit of all citizens of the nation. It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.
    This ruling should serve notice to all domestic terrorists in possession of gold or silver coinage who are undermining the legitimate fractional fraudulent currency of this country.

    Hip, hip, hoorah for the Constitution...
    It's funny how they will emphasize that only Congress has the power to create and regulate our nation's currency, but we all know that Congress abdicates its Constitutional duty to do that by giving it over to the Federal Reserve. So, even Congress is guilty of its own lack of duties to protect our currency.
    "Diverse weights are an abomination unto the LORD, and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    "Federal Reserve-generated increases in money supply cause economic inequality... By the time the increased money supply trickles down to middle- and working-class Americans, the economy is already beset by inflation. So most average Americans see their standard of living decline as a result of Fed-engendered money supply increases." - Dr. Ron Paul

  21. #20

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    According to wiki:

    Numerous individuals within the U.S. Government have been interviewed regarding the Liberty Dollar. The Liberty Dollar organization asserts that one U.S. Secret Service agent has stated "It's not counterfeit money"[10] while remaining "skeptical" of NORFED. Another agent is reported to have warned that the Liberty Dollar "appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. 514."[10] The minting of Liberty dollars also appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. 486:
    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    The promoter of the Liberty Dollar asserts that Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for the U.S. Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, had previously said American Liberty Currency is legitimate. Dickens was quoted as having said "There's nothing illegal about this", after the Treasury Department's legal team reviewed the currency. "As long as it doesn't say 'legal tender' there's nothing wrong with it."[11]
    In 2006 the U.S. Mint issued a press release stating that prosecutors at the Justice Department had determined that using Liberty Dollars as circulating money is a federal crime. The press release also stated that the "Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[12] The Justice Department also stated that the Liberty Dollar was confusingly similar to actual U.S. currency, and the language used on NORFED's website was deceptive.[13]
    The Liberty Dollar organization responded to the Mint's press release by stating that "[t]he Liberty Dollar never has claimed to be, does not claim to be, is not, and does not purport to be, legal tender."[14] The promoters of the Liberty Dollar have asserted that the Liberty Dollar is not legal tender, and that legal tender and barter are mutually exclusive concepts. The promoter asserts that the Liberty Dollar is a numismatic piece or medallion which may be used voluntarily as barter.

    If this is true, I don't see a good case against the Liberty Dollar folks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theocrat View Post
    It's funny how they will emphasize that only Congress has the power to create and regulate our nation's currency, but we all know that Congress abdicates its Constitutional duty to do that by giving it over to the Federal Reserve. So, even Congress is guilty of its own lack of duties to protect our currency.
    Congress is derelict in pretty much ALL of its duties, and has been for a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  23. #22

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    I love how "terrorism" is being attached or linked to a lot of federal crimes these days...it's a lovely trend...

  24. #23

  25. #24

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    Just makes one wish for the total collapse of the dollar (can't be stopped) to happen sooner rather than later...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  26. #25

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    Not a single mention of the Federal Reserve in that entire article. Looks like just another attempt to keep people thinking that the "government" issues money and no one can contest that. After all, it's their constitutional duty! I would have liked to hear the jury instructions if they were able to deliberate for only 90 minutes. Must have been "did it say dollar? then guilty" and that's it. The average juror has no understanding whatsoever of fractional reserve banking and where it comes from.

    Of course, at the end all the Feds wanted is his property. They'll get it all too.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  27. #26

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    Yeah, he fooled me, damn those were good counterfeits!
    Jury conviction...hooray...as if there is any hope for this $#@!hole usa...let it burn already...
    Sign up, Log in:
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    Surviving
    http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/

    Does the fucking victim have family? Why does the precinct still exist?

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Not a single mention of the Federal Reserve in that entire article. Looks like just another attempt to keep people thinking that the "government" issues money and no one can contest that. After all, it's their constitutional duty! I would have liked to hear the jury instructions if they were able to deliberate for only 90 minutes. Must have been "did it say dollar? then guilty" and that's it. The average juror has no understanding whatsoever of fractional reserve banking and where it comes from.

    Of course, at the end all the Feds wanted is his property. They'll get it all too.
    Well, the word dollar is used on many different foreign currencies too. For example, there is the Zimbabwee dollar, the Australian dollar,and the Hong Kong dollar. Putting the word dollar on a silver round shouldn't make anybody guilty.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by fox mccloud View Post
    i love how "terrorism" is being attached or linked to a lot of federal crimes these days...it's a lovely trend...
    terrorist!

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Well, the word dollar is used on many different foreign currencies too. For example, there is the Zimbabwee dollar, the Australian dollar,and the Hong Kong dollar. Putting the word dollar on a silver round shouldn't make anybody guilty.
    Heck, Australia and Canada even use the same symbol as we do.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox McCloud View Post
    Heck, Australia and Canada even use the same symbol as we do.
    I should have been more clear. "Cartel dollars", not commoner dollars.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

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