Being "Enlightened" Libertarians, Do You Bother Getting Involved in Political Discussions?

[AGRP]

Maybe it's just me, but I want to stay away from them. Likewise, most of the time these discussions involve meaningless talks about Obama. I would classify the Ron Paul types as Phds and the typical political talk on the grade school level. Why even start?

I feel like pulling my ears out when I do hear these types of shallow/meaningless political conversations. The few times I do explain things, it goes in one ear and out the other. I've come to the point where I will get involved, but Ill touch on a couple key topics (fed reserve & wars) and I won't discuss things any further if they aren't interested.

[Kludge]

$#@! no. I stopped talking to people after the 2008 election. They make you jump through so many damned unnecessary hoops just to make one lousy point, and then they'll say something like "well I still think Mike Huckabee has a better chance of winning and I don't want to throw my vote away." Off of here, I'm very slow to offer my opinion and'd rather just rattle off some relevant statistics, which is not very effective unless someone is beside me making the arguments. Aside from my wife, this is the entirety of my social interaction, and I'm quite pleased with it this way.

Even Ron Paul people I meet in person want to tell me about NWO slave collars, ffs. I figure I won't give a $#@! about anyone else in exchange for them not giving a $#@! about me.

[RM918]

I don't even bother. I've tried a couple times and all that happens is people I get along with get angry and start yelling at me, it's blatantly obvious that too many people feel politics rather than think it.

[TCE]

I don't bother, either. How many people am I going to convince in Chicago anyway? It is nice sometimes being in a political wasteland, because it is important to know the citizens living in that city actually like the policies plunging them into the abyss. If somebody says something blatantly moronic, like that Ron Paul is for all of the wars across the globe because he is a Republican (I have heard that several times), I correct them and they will almost always argue right back with me. Uh...hello, I'm a Ron Pauler, I think I know my own guy's positions, but apparently you know more than me, so go on your merry way.

[SWATH]

It is frustrating when you are sitting contemplating the nuances of how the attempted central planning of economic forces shapes politics and world affairs and creates a polar class system.

And then some dumbass that you probably know and whom you've probably tried to have intelligent conversations with in the past comes screaming like a frightened child about how he heard Glen Beck saying that mooslims are trying to take over the world and put Sharias and jihads on them and Obama is a progressive and that the only people who can save us are the heroic triumvirate Marco Rubio, Herman Cain, and Sarah Palin. Oh and how Ron Paul is not presidential enough and not a "solid" candidate.

Sound familiar?

[TCE]

It is frustrating when you are sitting contemplating the nuances of how the attempted central planning of economic forces shapes politics and world affairs and creates a polar class system.

And then some dumbass that you probably know and whom you've probably tried to have intelligent conversations with in the past comes screaming like a frightened child about how he heard Glen Beck saying that mooslims are trying to take over the world and put Sharias and jihads on them and that the only people who can save us are the heroic triumvirate Marco Rubio, Herman Cain, and Sarah Palin. Oh and how Ron Paul is not presidential enough.

Sound familiar?

To your latter point, yes, I have heard from countless people that he is unelectable and/or the throwing your vote away argument. Because apparently they are using their vote wisely voting for the lesser of two evils. The "throwing my vote away" argument is hilarious because it assumes your vote is of great importance in deciding the election.

[fisharmor]

Not generally. I usually drop a bomb every once in a while, but that's it.
My dad was shootin' the breeze with another guy last fall, and talking about how young people don't respect cops.
"Do you realize that there's a new youtube video every single week of a cop severely beating or killing someone with zero justification?"
Didn't say much after that, but it certainly didn't help his argument about respecting the law.

I have a libtard friend who was ranting on FB the other day about how banks are screwing people on their mortgages.
"So, how do you feel about fractional reserve banking?"
That's all I said. I'll leave it up to him to do the homework now.

Most people don't know the basics that go into our philosophy. I'm not going to call them out for the straight evil life-ruining $#@!s they are, 'cause it won't work. But I will throw a monkey wrench once in a while.

[Stary Hickory]

Well you should if you are not. I do. Everyone needs to slug it out in the trenches...being passive to the point where you refuse to engage in political debate is not very good. I know a lot of people here are still active in other ways, but still we need all the help we can get.

[VBRonPaulFan]

I try to find common ground first and then bring up differences and why I feel the way I do. You basically never change someone's mind on the spot... but sometimes you can put a seed in their head and eventually they'll do their own research and come around in time. That's all you can really hope for.

[JamesButabi]

I do, but I keep it on their level. I use extremely easy to understand talking points and statistics and point out the obvious. I don't try and push an issue or candidate. If someone is interested and respects the opinion usually the question of "are you republican or democrat" or "who do you support" comes up.

[RCA]

I'm done with it. Waste of time. I might occasionally mention that society doesn't need a government, but that's on very rare occasions. I'm still trying to recover from my 2008 efforts.

[ChaosControl]

I like discussions, I hate arguments or "debates".
I like trying to mutually learn from one another, not try and prove one another right or wrong because that is pretty pointless.
So I get involved in discussions, unfortunately they turn into arguments a lot of times, eventually I get sick of it and stop showing up. People like to have the last word, I give up caring about having the last word after a bit.

[heavenlyboy34]

@OP-it's usually not worth it, but I would engage someone if they are open-minded. I also participate in debate with state-worshipers on other forums for educational purposes.

[TIMB0B]

Well you should if you are not. I do. Everyone needs to slug it out in the trenches...being passive to the point where you refuse to engage in political debate is not very good. I know a lot of people here are still active in other ways, but still we need all the help we can get.

Agreed. Besides, "they" can't argue against truth.

[belian78]

I like discussions, I hate arguments or "debates".
I like trying to mutually learn from one another, not try and prove one another right or wrong because that is pretty pointless.
So I get involved in discussions, unfortunately they turn into arguments a lot of times, eventually I get sick of it and stop showing up. People like to have the last word, I give up caring about having the last word after a bit.

This.

Between this mentality and the 'red team vs blue team' and its canned arguments for each side, its an excersise in futility. Like someone said earlier about dropping the monkeywrench every now and then, that is my approach any more.

Take Gunnys discussions in the comments of that article for a perfect example. I've never met him personally, but Im absolutely appalled for him at what some people say to one of their state reps! It makes me weep inside to know we are in the minority.

No thanks, ill continue to educate my close friends and family. They might not always agree with me, but they will look into the things we discuss.

[WyoLiberty]

I tire of being berated with straw-man arguments... The only statement I make to people anymore is to be prepared for the worst - whatever that means to them...

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I enjoy systematically destroying one's argument, piece by piece with evidence and hard fact.

[eOs]

I'm not very articulate, if I see people who want to learn I point them in certain directions depending on where they are. Other than that, I stay clear away.

[eOs]

I enjoy systematically destroying one's argument, piece by piece with evidence and hard fact.

You must have the patience of buddha my friend

[Kludge]

Agreed. Besides, "they" can't argue against truth.

They can and do. The conversation almost always turns into the other person trying to win by pinning me on one issue like drugs. Many people don't want to have a conversation to share ideas, just dominate someone.

[Gray Seal]

I do all the time. If we the people do not discuss politics amongst ourselves many will be a slave to the corporatist propaganda of easy media news.

When I say all the time I mean multiple times most days of the week.

[eOs]

They can and do. The conversation almost always turns into the other person trying to win by pinning me on one issue like drugs. Many people don't want to have a conversation to share ideas, just dominate someone.

Any type of political conversation ever witnessed or been apart of in 'real life' has been about that, domination. It is never about coming to an understanding of subject matter or redefining one's positions based on fact. It is always about #winning.

[TexanRudeBoy]

I've found that Stefan Molyneux's "against me" argument works fairly well. Its extremely rare that someone actually changes their mind, but framing things in such a personal way makes them actually think about the use of force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKOTqRb5nvg

Start it at 8 min

[Kregisen]

I talk politics with a lot of people. The thing is you have to know when to bring up politics and when not to....it's not appropriate in every conversation but sometimes people bring it up and then I'm all in.


If you never talk politics with anyone you might as well just say $#@! you to ron paul since it's the main way to bring people over.....I'm surprised so many in here are saying they don't do anything.

[Gray Seal]

A significant, I would say 5 to 10% of the population, are new to recognizing in the last year or two that there is something terribly wrong with government and society. This new enlightened portion are talking and they do hear ideas. They are not here on this board. We are the old guard. We have been aware of the major problems for a long time. The Ron Paul Republican Presidential primary brought us together.

The general population will never be as informed as we are. That is not necessary. They do not have to be us to be part of the solution.

We will need as many people as possible to revolt against the status quo. We must communicate. The ideas of liberty do soak in once people begin searching for better ideas. We must talk. We must be involved with our communities and not just banter amongst ourselves. We have some great ideas which have been in the closet which need the light of day. All of us are part of the solution. We can not rely upon figureheads, spokesperson, nor old time political organizations to do all the work. Revolution will not happen unless the people are involved.

Skepticism and leadership are lacking in the general population. If you have it in you, just talk to people. It is most important. That is all it takes to be a leader. The best leaders are when people do not even know they are being lead.

[Kludge]

I talk politics with a lot of people. The thing is you have to know when to bring up politics and when not to....it's not appropriate in every conversation but sometimes people bring it up and then I'm all in.


If you never talk politics with anyone you might as well just say $#@! you to ron paul since it's the main way to bring people over.....I'm surprised so many in here are saying they don't do anything.

I may talk to people about RP again when his campaign starts up, and I did in 07/08, but I really don't want to, and I contribute in other ways which are much less stressful. I personally didn't come to RP because someone talked to me about him - I learned about him from the Internet.

[Trigonx]

I enjoy systematically destroying one's argument, piece by piece with evidence and hard fact.

I try doing that but then the person ignores what I wrote and goes off on a tangent about something completely different.

I try staying away from political discussion with most people because after hours of wasted time I am left feeling that I accomplished NOTHING.

I had a debate with my step-brother over Rand's speech about no choice in toilets, light bulbs, and other consumer products because of government. His arguments against 5 gallon toilets were because of "leaking septic tanks possibly going into lakes/rivers and it was dangerous." I asked him what does a 5 gallon toilet have to do with a septic tank when the person with the 5 gallon toilet is connected to the municipal sewage system. He ignored that logic and countered it with asking me what do light bulbs and toilets have to do with each other(obviously they are both products where consumer's choice has been restricted by the government, the whole point of Rands speech/questioning). And against incandescent light bulbs, he said they are dangerous because they produce more heat than light(thus wasting energy somehow according to him) and were an environmental concern even after i mentioned the mercury in the new CFL. He used the whole these light bulbs are great, they last a long time, produce great light, so i respond and say if they are that great the market would phase them out just like VCR's, floppy disks, portable CD players. He completely ignored that logic.

At one point i respond saying "what i get out of this is that you are okay with using the force of government to enforce ideas that you agree with."

his response, "If it is to protect people, then YEAH." Mind you, he likes smoking some herb and the government banned that for "our own protection" as well. So the hypocrisy is ridiculous.

*double facepalm*

[Kludge]

Worth noting there are other ways to reach a wide audience, too, if you look. I started up the Stossel in the Classroom Youtube channel which exists almost entirely to plant those liberty ideas in peoples' minds and get them thinking about the counterproductivity of using gov't to solve problems. So far, a few classrooms have used the videos and in total, the SitC videos have been watched nearly 50,000 times -- best part is, I didn't have to talk to a single person face-to-face.

[AGRP]

The last political discussion I had included a "hardcore" Republican.

She believed it was the job of the state to educate our children. I brought up how it's unethical to pry someones hard earned income via mob rule Democracy that infringe upon our liberty.

I then brought up the outrageous cost of per/student ($10,000) and how corrupt the system is. She seemed perfectly happy with it and assumed the world would fall apart if we didn't force people to pay.

[Koz]

The only time I generally get into a political discussion is when therre are other people talking about Obama vs. Bush and I merely point out to them that Bush/Obama policies are the same big government, nanny-state, interventionist, keynesian policies and there really isn't much differene between them. That pretty much gets the reaction I am looking for and gets them to start to think about it a little bit. It puts me in the role of impartial 3rd party observer because I'm not a repub or dem.

The last time I did this it was with my partners clients, a husband (repub) and his wife (dem). They started comparing the policies by the end of the conversation. I told them they are both libertarians now when they were agreeing with me.

My kung fu is stong.

Otherwise I just point out to people that government shouldn't be telling us what to put in our bodies and need to stay out of our homes. Oh, and the fact that we have 900 something bases around the world and there are only like 160-something countries around the globe.