Do you really own your house if you have to pay property taxes?

[BenIsForRon]

I definitely think property tax should be reformed, as in agriculture and other rural property should have very little tax, if any. But local governments need to collect revenue somehow, and if they tax the shopping mall for their giant parking lot I'm not gonna bitch too much.

[freshjiva]

The worst thing about property taxes is that they are based on an appraisal value.

In other words, you get taxed based on what some unelected bureaucrat says your home is worth, and let me tell you, from my experience, they don't care about the real estate market. They make up their own numbers. Hmm, I definitely don't see a conflict of interest here. Does anyone else?

Imagine if sales taxes were assessed on what the government thinks the item is worth instead of what you actually paid for.

This is why I don't like the whole "States rights" argument either. Government is government. I agree local government is better than federal, but either way, there's always someone trying to put their hands in your pocket.

[doodle]

A large portion of property taxes typically go to public dronification (aka schools). Getting rid of that mandate would be a good first step.

So people who don't have kids in these schools are subsidising other people's kids expenses? Isn't that socialism in concept?

[speciallyblend]

Why are you guys hating on the property tax so much but you're fine with Ron Paul's suggestion of collecting revenue through tariffs? Either way property is being taxed. The only difference in Ron Paul's suggestion is that it's taxed at the time of changing ownership, so I guess it doesn't feel as bad?

And to those of you saying China is so awesome because they don't tax property, don't forget that the Chinese government has stolen land outright throughout the years from millions of its people. They might not tax you on it now, but if turns out they'd like to let GM put a factory on your land, you're $#@! out of luck.

2 things the chinese gov and us gov have in common f'in its people!!

[demolama]

Tariff is not a direct tax on the people. Property tax is

[Lmata]

T

Imagine if sales taxes were assessed on what the government thinks the item is worth instead of what you actually paid for.
.

They do this in Texas for car sales. I just bought a car for less than the blue book. It needed a good cleaning on the inside and had several dents on the body. Well, went to pay tax and had to pay on the "value" rather than sales price. The only way around it would have been to get it appraised at a dealership.

We are now giving a vehicle to a good friend of ours. Yep, they have to pay sales tax on the car even though there was no money that changed hands. It isn't even a barter type situation. You can't get around it unless you give it to a family member. If I were to sell the car it would sell for about $500 but will be "taxed" on $1700.

[BenIsForRon]

Tariff is not a direct tax on the people. Property tax is

If you don't pay a tariff you get thrown in jail. I would call that a direct tax. Same outcome as if you didn't pay property tax.

[AdamT]

You might own the house itself, but you sure as hell don't own what the house is sitting on. The whole idea of "buying land" is the biggest scam. First you pay out the ass to "buy" it, then enter into a lifetime of servitude rent payments to the government landlord. How is that owning the land?

[heavenlyboy34]

Property taxes = renting from government. Therefore we do not have private property rights in most states. Until that changes, the US as a free country is a sham.

This^^

[HOLLYWOOD]

Remember...

Beginning January 1, 2013, ObamaCare imposes a 3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income, including the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income.


Do you see the Republicrats ending that now?

[LibertyRevolution]

....buy some land get an Allodial title for it.

We have a winner.


Here is a video I just cut and uploaded to youtube to help explain.

[ord33]

Remember...

Beginning January 1, 2013, ObamaCare imposes a 3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income, including the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income.


Do you see the Republicrats ending that now?

The 3.8% Medicare Tax on all real estate transactions isn't true. It would, however, effect a very small portion of people that are high income earners and see a substantial capital gain in the sale. So right now, it effects only an extremely small percentage of people. I agree though, things usually start out this way, then expand more and more until it effects a much higher portion of our population.

http://thefinancebuff.com/3-8-medica...form-bill.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

[demolama]

If you don't pay a tariff you get thrown in jail. I would call that a direct tax. Same outcome as if you didn't pay property tax.

What human pays a tariff on imports and exports? Merchants and other corporations only pay tariffs so they can resell the import to the American consumer. People who chose to buy an item that is imported might be forced to pay a higher cost to compensate for the tariff but that's reflective on the price of the item and does not effect people who chose not to purchase the imported item. There is no jail for not paying a higher price or buying it on sale.

This is why for 150+ years the tariff was the only legal form of taxation for federal revenue because it wasn't a direct tax on the people but a tax on imported goods that merchant importers paid. Could merchants go to jail for selling non-taxed items? Yes, but its because of their business not because of them specifically buying imported goods for their own consumption.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north18.html

[daviddee]

...

[nobody's_hero]

If it were a tax, why wouldn't you just pay it once like you do if you buy a candy bar from the corner store?

Being taxed every year is rent. So technically, I'd say you don't really own your house.

[Freedom 4 all]

2 things the chinese gov and us gov have in common f'in its people!!

How about every government that has ever or will ever exist anywhere in the world?

[hazek]

To answer the OP question: yes you own your house but not the land property it's built on :/

[Travlyr]

There is a tangible cost of protecting property. The entity that protects your property against trespasses and illegal seizure has a valid case for being compensated. If you do that yourself, then maybe you shouldn't have to pay property taxes.

Unvoluntary levies for things like schools, fire protection, police "protection" are of course absurd.

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

I agree that enough land to keep a house and/or a small farm is a natural right. Property taxes make controlling people easier for the State. They can tax and spend the money on public schooling or whatever. Allodial title gives the property owner sovereignty and security. Since the State can take the property for non-payment of taxes, then they own the property.

[Krugerrand]

They do this in Texas for car sales. I just bought a car for less than the blue book. It needed a good cleaning on the inside and had several dents on the body. Well, went to pay tax and had to pay on the "value" rather than sales price. The only way around it would have been to get it appraised at a dealership.

We are now giving a vehicle to a good friend of ours. Yep, they have to pay sales tax on the car even though there was no money that changed hands. It isn't even a barter type situation. You can't get around it unless you give it to a family member. If I were to sell the car it would sell for about $500 but will be "taxed" on $1700.

My apologies for going on a tangent with this one.

In JJ Luna's book on privacy, he talks about setting up car ownership by though an LLC. If the LLC owns the car - you can sell the LLC and the car just goes along as one of the assets. I don't think it then gets taxed, since the car does not change ownership.

DYODD


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...1/eindotcom-20

[AtomiC]

I believe that emminent domain should be abolished.

You should not have to pay taxes to the government if you own the property. Its akin to the mafia demanding 'protection' money from businesses or else harassment ensues.

[Bryan]

Go to Nevada, buy some land get an Allodial title for it.

Technically, you can get Allodial title in Texas too-- but I'm not sure how to get it in either state.


To the OP question- No.

[stuntman stoll]

To answer the OP question: yes you own your house but not the land property it's built on :/

You do not own your house. You pay rent (tax) on that too. That tax assessed value is based on the land and buildings. You want to make some improvements? Yep, your rent goes up.

[Howard_Roark]

If it were a tax, why wouldn't you just pay it once like you do if you buy a candy bar from the corner store?

Being taxed every year is rent. So technically, I'd say you don't really own your house.

I really agree with this. Tax is usually a transaction based thing, ie your employer pays you and then they take x amount out and then its yours. Same with buying a car, you pay a flat sales tax and its yours. I know in China, there is a transaction tax when you buy it then its yours, then no more (though this is changing in some places apparently). When you have to continually pay money to live in a place, it's obviously a form of rent you pay the government.

[ChaosControl]

Nope.
Private property is a myth, it doesn't exist anywhere.

[RyanRSheets]

Does the bank actually own your home if the money they loaned you was magically created out of thin air?

[ChaosControl]

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

I rather like this. Basically you just have a plot of land you can live on and such, we shouldn't even really need to worry about ownership of it. Basically as long as you live on it and such, you can keep control of it. Everyone should be able to live a self sustainable lifestyle without having to be a slave to some corporation to be able to purchase the land to do so, of which as this topic demonstrates we don't own anyway.

[Romulus]

That problem is when someones natural right to land conflicts with your land... who wins out? This then abolishes all private property, since I have a 'natural right' to your land.

[Zippyjuan]

Renters are paying property taxes too- you aren't avoiding it by continuing to rent. You pay the property taxes for the person you rent from. You are also making their mortgage payment for them (if they still owe on it), paying for upkeep, and tossing in a profit margin for them. Might as well cut out the middle man by buying (if you can afford to) and keep the profit portion as well as ownership of the property for yourself. Once you do get the mortgage paid for, your disposable income goes up (actually it is your expensed going down which is the same net effect as a heathy pay raise). Then you still have the title to an asset which can later be resold if necessary. Or keep renting and get nothing for it and never have that expense go down. I'll have mine paid off in about two more years. Then my disposable income will go up by about 30%.

California property taxes are not based on apraisals but on selling prices. If you don't sell your property, the most they can raise the property tax is two percent a year. If the property is resold, the taxes are based on the new value it sold at. Property taxes in California are thus lower than in many states including Texas.

[ChaosControl]

That problem is when someones natural right to land conflicts with your land... who wins out? This then abolishes all private property, since I have a 'natural right' to your land.

Probably wouldn't have ownership of land in general. People live on land and use land, land not being lived on or used would be open for someone to come along and live on it and use it. You control it as long as you make use of it, once you no longer make use of it you no longer have control of it.

I'm not sure really, I haven't considered it significantly or how it'd work.

[nobody's_hero]

I really agree with this. Tax is usually a transaction based thing, ie your employer pays you and then they take x amount out and then its yours. Same with buying a car, you pay a flat sales tax and its yours. I know in China, there is a transaction tax when you buy it then its yours, then no more (though this is changing in some places apparently). When you have to continually pay money to live in a place, it's obviously a form of rent you pay the government.

Oh yeah, this is changing in the U.S. apparently.

Similar situation:

Georgia just recently put to a ballot proposition a removal of the inventory tax on Georgia's merchants. It passed. (46-keep the tax, 54-abolish). Almost half of the voters fail to see that being taxed for an inventory that a merchant has already paid taxes on when he purchased the goods, is at best harmful to business and at worst, it equates to double-jeopardy (but none dare call it such).

EDITED: Had the wrong vote results.