Do you really own your house if you have to pay property taxes?

[Howard_Roark]

I live in an apartment overlooking a wooded creek. On the other side of the creek are million dollar homes. Just for kicks I went online and looked up the amount they are paying in property taxes and it’s $20,000-$30,000/year which is 2-2.5% depending on exemptions here in Texas. These are nice houses, but not mansions. They had to pay a million dollars in cash or had to go into debt to buy these houses and for all that they get the right to pay the government thousands of dollars each month in property taxes, which is 3-4x as much as I pay in rent alone. This state is supposed to be low tax, because it doesn’t have an income tax but property taxes have gone up so much that they’ve largely compensated for that. My ultimate question is, when in order to live in your house you have to pay the government $20,000-$30,000/year, do you really own it?

[Agorism]

Well you rent it from the government basically.

If they could get away with property tax on smaller items, they would. Rent your gold. Own a computer? Good ...pay property tax on that thing.

[amy31416]

No.

[Jack Bauer]

No. Property tax = Rent you pay to the govt.

[terp]

No. I've made this stance many times in conversations and on other message boards. It is generally not well received. I think I'll have better luck on this board.

The fact that you can own your house outright & still have it repossessed for failure to pay property taxes argues that you do not in fact own your house.

[kahless]

Property taxes = renting from government. Therefore we do not have private property rights in most states. Until that changes, the US as a free country is a sham.

[heavenlyboy34]

Property taxes = renting from government. Therefore we do not have private property rights in most states. Until that changes, the US as a free country is a sham.

This^^

[amy31416]

Because of property taxes, there is no real security in your property, no matter what you do. Save your whole life? It can be wiped out by monetary manipulation, inflation. Build your whole life? It can be taken away through eminent domain. Live in a neighborhood that improved? You'll be taxed out of there.

It's theft, plain and simple. Which is why we need a local push for alternatives to funding things like roads, police, fire-fighting and schools (if you're into that sort of thing.)

[furface]

There is a tangible cost of protecting property. The entity that protects your property against trespasses and illegal seizure has a valid case for being compensated. If you do that yourself, then maybe you shouldn't have to pay property taxes.

Unvoluntary levies for things like schools, fire protection, police "protection" are of course absurd.

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

[QueenB4Liberty]

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

I agree with this.

[Howard_Roark]

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

A bit socialistic? That is straight out of Karl Marx Communist Manifesto. Land "reform" is the foundation for most communist revolutions and the first thing that they do once they win. This is the polar opposite of a libertarian position.

[Travlyr]

There is a tangible cost of protecting property. The entity that protects your property against trespasses and illegal seizure has a valid case for being compensated. If you do that yourself, then maybe you shouldn't have to pay property taxes.

Unvoluntary levies for things like schools, fire protection, police "protection" are of course absurd.

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

I agree that enough land to keep a house and/or a small farm is a natural right. Property taxes make controlling people easier for the State. They can tax and spend the money on public schooling or whatever. Allodial title gives the property owner sovereignty and security. Since the State can take the property for non-payment of taxes, then they own the property.

[ChaosControl]

There is also the issue of the natural right to enough land and resources to support yourself and your family. This may sound a bit socialistic, but people should not have to be a slave for most of their lives in order to get the resources necessary to survive. I know it sounds a lot like "land reform" for socialist leaning countries, but I personally believe that enough land to keep a house and/or small farm is a natural right of being alive. If people all had this without property taxes and mortgages, there wouldn't be this huge need for social welfare systems stealing money from one group to entitle others.

I rather like this. Basically you just have a plot of land you can live on and such, we shouldn't even really need to worry about ownership of it. Basically as long as you live on it and such, you can keep control of it. Everyone should be able to live a self sustainable lifestyle without having to be a slave to some corporation to be able to purchase the land to do so, of which as this topic demonstrates we don't own anyway.

[ItsTime]

Because of property taxes, there is no real security in your property, no matter what you do. Save your whole life? It can be wiped out by monetary manipulation, inflation. Build your whole life? It can be taken away through eminent domain. Live in a neighborhood that improved? You'll be taxed out of there.

It's theft, plain and simple. Which is why we need a local push for alternatives to funding things like roads, police, fire-fighting and schools (if you're into that sort of thing.)

That is why we need to work hard local and get in places that can influence that. Through the suggestions of my town budget committee we privatized a few things and at the same time kept the tax rate low. However, until we privatize schools there will be NO hope for ever getting rid of the property tax.

[furface]

However, until we privatize schools there will be NO hope for ever getting rid of the property tax.

Different issues in different states. In California if the State and all local governments shut down tomorrow, there would still be another 40 years worth of pensions to pay off. My county now pays more in pension costs than it does in salaries. It's a huge scandal, and I personally believe there's going to be civil unrest over it in California. Government unions have basically bankrupt the state.

[furface]

In China, they have no property tax. I once read that some Chinese real estate investors came to the US looking for opportunities but left after they were horrified to discover that we have an annual property tax.

Bad ideas seem to get around.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...rb-prices.html

[Michael Landon]

Are there any states that are property tax free?

- ML

[Howard_Roark]

In China, they have no property tax. I once read that some Chinese real estate investors came to the US looking for opportunities but left after they were horrified to discover that we have an annual property tax.

[Grubb556]

What if we removed property tax and had a state sale tax collected by counties, to which they can use 50% of the collected taxes?

[Carehn]

No. Thats called rent.

[jkr]

nope

[johnrocks]

No, nor your labor if they can put you in jail for not paying income taxes nor your body if you can't sell an organ,commit euthanasia if you have a terminal illness or even smoke a joint without being a criminal.

[Humanae Libertas]

Not just property tax, but if you have a mortgage/loan you technically do not own the home until it is paid off -- even after all that, you still have to give yearly rent towards your state government. So in a sense, at no point do you really own your property.

Yes, its a backwards world we live in...

[Noob]

Go to Nevada, buy some land get an Allodial title for it.

[LibertyRevolution]

....buy some land get an Allodial title for it.

We have a winner.


Here is a video I just cut and uploaded to youtube to help explain.

[Bryan]

Go to Nevada, buy some land get an Allodial title for it.

Technically, you can get Allodial title in Texas too-- but I'm not sure how to get it in either state.


To the OP question- No.

[speciallyblend]

nope you never own your house!!! if they want your property. they just raise property taxes until you have to sell or lose it. It is the american way, the dreams are dead!!

[Echoes]

A large portion of property taxes typically go to public dronification (aka schools). Getting rid of that mandate would be a good first step.

[doodle]

A large portion of property taxes typically go to public dronification (aka schools). Getting rid of that mandate would be a good first step.

So people who don't have kids in these schools are subsidising other people's kids expenses? Isn't that socialism in concept?

[TruckinMike]

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