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Thread: Farewell, RPF

  1. #1

    Farewell, RPF

    Hi RPF,

    I am one of few Muslims who have been regular here. I don’t claim to be speaking on others’ behalf, but in my experience things have been getting uncomfortable for us recently. A recent altercation convinced me that I just can’t go on here and must leave.

    And I’m really writing these words with tears running down my face. That someone who calls himself religious can even think that I can condone Church burning just fills my heart with such sadness and despair that I don’t think I want to even raise a hand in protest.


    Hope

    I have no hard feelings for TER. I just thought that my record speaks for me. I would have thought that a casual look down my posts history can show my position towards religion inspired strife & violence very clearly. I felt I don’t need to say that an attack on a Church is to me just as despicable as an attack on a Mosque.

    I could have asked where TER was when Muslims & Christians prayed, revolted, fought, died, and triumphed together in Egypt. I could have asked where TER was when ex-Interior Minister Habib Al Adly was arrested for the New Year Alexandria Church bombing, proving it was a false flag operation.

    I could have asked why TER, a supposedly religious person, consistently focused on news of strife and division, and conveniently ignored news of hope, and understanding, and peace, and beautiful harmony, that show that there is, indeed, a way forward.

    But I won’t, because I’ve lost hope. RPF has become an inhospitable environment for me as a Muslim. For a while I tried to bring you another point of view. I learnt a lot from you and for that I’m grateful. I formed some great friendships and found some great and hopefully life-long intellectual brothers & sisters.

    But I’m sorry, this doesn’t feel like home any more.


    A Cautionary Tale

    But allow me before parting to sound a warning alarm. Allow me to share my story of how I came to RPF. Perhaps it would explain my recent behavior.

    Some 20 years ago we in the Muslim world were bombarded with propaganda to the effect that the West was out to get us. There’s a huge crusade being planned against us, and every single American, British, French etc. citizen is complicit in it.

    Those who would brainwash us knew how to present their case. They dug deep into history, knew how to present facts, found obscure news stories, and played heavily on religious sympathies and deepest fears. They knew how to tickle our emotions.

    They painted passionate scenes of Crusaders treading through rivers of our blood in the 10th through 14th centuries; of brutal colonists and imperialists in the 15th through 19th centuries; and of boat loads of settlers coming to steal our land and kill our children in the 20th century.

    It didn’t help that events were moving frantically in that direction. With Israel bombing Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, and the United States bombing Iraq; with massacre after massacre, it appeared they were right. The West backed some tyrants and bombed others, and supported those who occupy us.

    Yes, we thought - there was a crusade. We fell for it head over heels. We became convinced that we’re under imminent and personal threat. The West is going to get us. It’s going to invade us again and impose its lifestyle, laws, economic and political systems on us. Our way of life is in danger.

    And when you’re in such danger, everything is justified, because you’re in an extreme case of self-defense. Suddenly you are willing to accept the most ridiculously immoral things. Suddenly it becomes justified for a young man to blow himself up in a bus, or to bomb a school. There’s a crusade, after all, and we’re under attack. We’re defending ourselves.

    With every massacre the West inflicted on us, with every bombing and blockade, it got worse. Compassionate, peace loving, God fearing people suddenly started to cheer at images of suicide bombings and car bombs. A hundred innocents dying in an embassy bombing become acceptable losses in this “fight” for self-defense and self-preservation.

    Our tabloids and forums were filled with stories about Christians killing Muslims. The stories were from obscure and possibly dubious sources, but we didn't care. There's a crusade going on and every story confirms it. The Christian West is out to kill us Muslims.

    Voices of harmony or understanding were drowned. Stories that challenge the "crusade" perception were ignored or under reported. And as the killing escalated on both sides, the big idiot, G. W. Bush, came out to say it straight, the “C” word: Crusade.

    The result? Hundreds and thousands of young Muslims rushed into Al-Qaeda’s ideology and camps, and the terror threat, once a trivial menace in our societies, became real and daily. It's around this dizzy time that I started asking serious questions.


    Finding Ron Paul

    I would only say it was the grace of God that made me decide to probe deeper around that time. I listened to dissenting voices, and to my pleasure I found a voice of hope and reason. A voice that showed me what I knew in my heart – that America is good and that the spirit of the American people is one of liberty, friendship, and peace.

    That voice was Ron Paul.

    Not too long after, this love affair started with RPF. These forums quickly became my home on the net, where I felt my deepest convictions and beliefs in liberty and human dignity get confirmed and strengthened.

    I saw that Americans aren’t my enemy. I listened to their dreams, and I listened to their pains, and I came to realize that those oppressing us are one and the same. Governments plant hate in our hearts, and we blindly and cheerfully march forward killing those who should be our friends and brothers in liberty.

    RPF was my cozy first-destination whenever I came online.

    But starting with the Tea Party movement, the general mood become more and more hostile, and the place felt more and more uncomfortable. Some threads started to feel like they could be taken right out of Alhesbah.org or Alburaq.net (Alqaeda's forums) circa 2001, just with the sides reversed.

    I tried to resist it sometimes, ignore it others. I reached deep within my spirit to find patience and wisdom and love.

    Until this.

    Sorry RPF that I can’t go on. Sorry that I have a soft heart that’s easily hurt. Real sorry this isn’t a place where I feel welcome any more.




    PS: Now go back to my cautionary tale and reverse terms. Replace “crusade” with “jihad”, “Muslim” with “Christian”, and get a glimpse where your country is heading.



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  3. #2
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  4. #3


    Nice going, TER, whomever you are.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  5. #4
    Not sure who TER is but I really hope you reconsider. You are a valuable member of these forums and while we do have some bad apples they do not represent us as a majority. So please reconsider and if you decide to step away (as many of us have at one time or another) than know you are always welcome home and we will leave the light of liberty on for you.
    "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
    designed to make of their victory,
    there would have been no surrender at
    Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
    Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
    I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
    with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870


  6. #5
    I wouldn't let that John Birch Society nonsense get to you; they seem to only exist to stir up division at a time when liberty lovers everywhere desperately need to be united.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by gls View Post
    I wouldn't let that John Birch Society nonsense get to you; they seem to only exist to stir up division at a time when liberty lovers everywhere desperately need to be united.
    totally agree.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  8. #7

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ibaghdadi View Post
    Hi RPF,


    And I’m really writing these words with tears running down my face. That someone who calls himself religious can even think that I can condone Church burning just fills my heart with such sadness and despair that I don’t think I want to even raise a hand in protest.
    Do what you have to do, but if you leave the terrorists win. Personally, I just use the "ignore" function.



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  11. #9
    correct

    Quote Originally Posted by specialK View Post
    TER= TodaysEpistleReading ?

  12. #10
    rep

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Do what you have to do, but if you leave the terrorists win.

  13. #11
    ibaghdadi please stay, just ignore the foul ones.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post


    Nice going, TER, whomever you are.
    I suspect TER is Today's Epistle Reading. It's unfortunate that TER has frightened of ibaghdadi, whom I consider a quality RPFer. You will be missed, ibaghdadi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Do what you have to do, but if you leave the terrorists win. Personally, I just use the "ignore" function.
    This^^ Ignore is a WONDERFUL feature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  16. #14
    im sure you should reconsider, at least cloak and go in to lurk mode. There is more to these forums going on than just the post exchanges, you know this.

  17. #15
    This is very unfortunate. You've given a lot of insight we couldn't get anywhere else and you will be missed.

    I don't think TER was out of line in his post (and in posting from The New American, he did make note of how aggressive the article was) - and I do not know what he wrote in his neg rep comment - but I have also noticed a strong trend toward divisive comments regarding Christians & Muslims, especially with regards to the happenings in the Middle East. I don't think this has risen from the Tea Party, but certainly members have come out as being very polarizing (and I have never noticed this from TER before) on religion in the past couple months. The forum goes through phases like this. There was a time when Christians and Atheists would mock each other every chance they got for months until a large batch of bans were made. We had a period of time when "Truthers" and "Anti-Truthers" were extremely hostile toward each other, and particularly bitter sandbox fights when Barr was nominated for the LP. These all turned out to be temporary, and the arguments did nothing but create animosity among people working toward the same goal (roughly). I suspect the latest spike in sensitivity toward news of Muslims aggressing against Christians (news which I don't doubt is "mainstream" only because Muslims are taking back countries in the Middle East formerly occupied by Western puppets) will also be short-lived.

    I hope you'll sleep on this and return soon.

  18. #16
    TER = Today's Epistle Reading

    And I can certainly see where ibaghdadi is coming from. This forum has taken a strong theocratic/loony Evangelical turn lately. If not in numbers, in visibility/impact. I've only been posting for a while, but I've been following for a couple years. To think that I was banned for a day for lashing out at someone for making insensitive comments while outward Muslim bashing is allowed is incredulous.

    Not that I'm a beloved member on the forums, but if this is the direction that the Ron Paul movement - to speak nothing of RPF - is headed, I want nothing to do with it (or the forum). Ron has spewed righteous venom at some of the crap that is posted here.

    I'm very sorry to see you leave, ibaghdadi.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Do what you have to do, but if you leave the terrorists win. Personally, I just use the "ignore" function.
    Yup, that ^. Oh, and don't be a drama queen. If you can't handle somebody being an ass on a web forum how can you hope to handle it in real life?

  21. #18
    There are only a handful (or two) of RPF account names that I recognize. ibaghdadi is one of them. I really enjoyed your perspectives and news from the middle east. I'm sorry someone here got under your skin. Hope you reconsider. The ignore feature works.

  22. #19
    Just ignore TER he seems like a religious troll mostly who probably thinks the Japanese earthquake was god punishing them for Pearl Harbor, no need to view his posts if you don't want to.
    We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. -- William Casey, CIA Director

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.-- Mark Twain

    When people like us-- the scum of society-- don't risk our lives when a rare chance comes our way, we become losers at that moment. So courage is the only thing we can rely on.-- Anchan
    Rick Simpson Hemp Oil

  23. #20
    amazing to hear it first hand how govt/msm over there is brainwashing people same as over here

    props for all the egypt updates, peace man and best wishes. damn shame not to feel like we lost a valuable person but that we drove one away

  24. #21

    Ibaghdadi

    Hi Mods,
    What was the rationale behind closing Ibaghdadi's farewell thread please?
    I would like to publically encourage Ibaghdadi to stay in this micro-universe we call home. We are diverse and some of us press others' of us' buttons but we have something special. The last thing that should divide us is a differing of religious views. Please can we keep talking about this without acrimony and name-calling. I think IB is a treasure and we need diversity if we are to survive as a species.

    Entrenchment of our pet view or opinion risks becoming prejudice; prejudice becomes bigotry and bigotry becomes discrimination. i thought we were bigger than that.
    The world does not consist of a throng of geniuses. WilliamBanzai7

  25. #22
    Send him a message. That's what I did.

  26. #23
    I did. But why is the thread closed?
    The world does not consist of a throng of geniuses. WilliamBanzai7

  27. #24
    Ibaghdadi, I hope you reconsider. In a sense, this is like living your city because some moron also lives there.

    I would be a shame to lose you, a great poster, due to the posts of a low quality member. I read a few of TER's posts and they usually don't have anything valuable, so I don't even read him/her anymore.



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  29. #25
    a great many of us are going to miss you
    even if you decide to be low profile now...

  30. #26
    apologies i must have closed accidentally

    damn iphone

  31. #27

    To ibaghdadi

    Dear Ibaghdadi,

    It seems that I have been named by you as the sole cause for your departure from RPF. This was never my intention. I don't know the stressors you are going through or the difficulties in your life, especially in your part of the world. I don't pretend to know what you are going through. But it was never my intention to make you lose hope in posting the article. Perhaps I should have used better judgment in picking one that was more neutral and I accept responsibility for my error. I was at work in the middle of a busy night shift and I quickly posted what I found and clearly qualified it as being pointed and potentially bias. I much rather you corrected me instead of how you responded.

    That someone who calls himself religious can even think that I can condone Church burning just fills my heart with such sadness and despair that I don’t think I want to even raise a hand in protest...
    I have no hard feelings for TER. I just thought that my record speaks for me. I would have thought that a casual look down my posts history can show my position towards religion inspired strife & violence very clearly. I felt I don’t need to say that an attack on a Church is to me just as despicable as an attack on a Mosque.
    I never once stated or implied that you condoned such church burnings.

    I could have asked where TER was when Muslims & Christians prayed, revolted, fought, died, and triumphed together in Egypt. I could have asked where TER was when ex-Interior Minister Habib Al Adly was arrested for the New Year Alexandria Church bombing, proving it was a false flag operation
    I wish you did ask me, ibaghdadi. I was not in the middle east at that time, but my heart was. I was not fighting in the streets, but my spirit was. I was showing my little children the images on the tv of a people wanting liberty, with tears running down my own face, chanting with them in my soul and praying for their victory. I was not protesting in the streets, but I was praying on my knees, for all the people, including the ex-Interior Minister.

    I could have asked why TER, a supposedly religious person, consistently focused on news of strife and division, and conveniently ignored news of hope, and understanding, and peace, and beautiful harmony, that show that there is, indeed, a way forward.
    I did not consistently focus on news of strife and division and ignore news of hope and understanding and peace. Rather, I focused on both, and not one at the expense of the other, lest we hide and ignore the truth and reality. There are multiple threads in this forum which speak to that, started by me specifically mentioning the scenes of unity in Egypt.

    But I won’t, because I’ve lost hope. RPF has become an inhospitable environment for me as a Muslim. For a while I tried to bring you another point of view. I learnt a lot from you and for that I’m grateful. I formed some great friendships and found some great and hopefully life-long intellectual brothers & sisters.

    But I’m sorry, this doesn’t feel like home any more.
    It does not feel like home any more because I posted an article about persecutions against Christians in Ethiopia? What is it exactly that you are upset about? This still seem unanswered to me.

    A Cautionary Tale...

    ...I saw that Americans aren’t my enemy. I listened to their dreams, and I listened to their pains, and I came to realize that those oppressing us are one and the same. Governments plant hate in our hearts, and we blindly and cheerfully march forward killing those who should be our friends and brothers in liberty.

    RPF was my cozy first-destination whenever I came online.

    Until this.
    Your tale is one I admire and respect. I admire your honesty and your search for truth and justice and that you found such things in the words of Ron Paul and in the Liberty Movement as a whole. However, I have not crusaded against you and neither have the Ethiopians in the article, so for you to make my post the needle in the haystack and the cause for your departure kills me because I know in my heart, there is more to it than this. And for this, I pray for you and wish you peace and hope. I do not wish you to go, and I know for many if not most here, they would much rather I did instead of you. Please reconsider what you are doing and forgive me for hurting you so. Do not leave like this when there is still a life time of battle in front of us against our common enemy who is the real cause for division and animosity.

    I consider you a brother and I await for your return.

    With sincere apologies and deep love,
    a worthless and unprofitable sinner.
    Last edited by TER; 03-15-2011 at 04:36 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  32. #28
    I have exceeded my rep allowance for the day but once I can leave more you will be getting some. Very classy move!
    "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
    designed to make of their victory,
    there would have been no surrender at
    Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
    Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
    I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
    with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870


  33. #29

  34. #30
    Mods, please feel free to move this to the other thread. Ibaghdadi's thread was closed when I tried to post it.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

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