Are cops constitutional?

[aGameOfThrones]

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?

Roger Roots*

ABSTRACT

Police work is often lionized by jurists and scholars who claim to employ "textualist" and "originalist" methods of constitutional interpretation. Yet professional police were unknown to the United States in 1789, and first appeared in America almost a half-century after the Constitution's ratification. The Framers contemplated law enforcement as the duty of mostly private citizens, along with a few constables and sheriffs who could be called upon when necessary. This article marshals extensive historical and legal evidence to show that modern policing is in many ways inconsistent with the original intent of America's founding documents. The author argues that the growth of modern policing has substantially empowered the state in a way the Framers would regard as abhorrent to their foremost principles.

PART I

INTRODUCTION...................................... ..........................686

THE CONSTITUTIONAL TEXT.............................................. 688

PRIVATE PROSECUTORS....................................... .............689

LAW ENFORCEMENT AS A UNIVERSAL................................692

POLICE AS SOCIAL WORKERS........................................... ..695

THE WAR ON CRIME............................................. .............696

THE DEVELOPMENT OF DISTINCTIONS................................698

RESISTING ARREST............................................ ................701

THE SAFETY OF THE POLICE PROFESSION............................711

PROFESSIONALISM?.................................. ........................713

DNA EVIDENCE ILLUSTRATES FALLIBILITY OF POLICE........716

COPS NOT COST-EFFECTIVE DETERRENT.............................721

PART II

POLICE AS A STANDING ARMY...........................................722

THE SECOND AMENDMENT........725

THE THIRD AMENDMENT......................................... ..........727

THE RIGHT TO BE LEFT ALONE...........................................72 8

THE FOURTH AMENDMENT......................................... .......729

WARRANTS A FLOOR, NOT A CEILING.................................733

PRIVATE PERSONS AND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT..............734

ORIGINALISTS CALL FOR CIVIL DAMAGES...........................739

DEVELOPMENT OF IMMUNITIES........................................ ..743

THE LOSS OF PROBABLE CAUSE, AND THE ONSET OF PROBABLE SUSPICION......................................... .......744

POLICE AND THE "AUTOMOBILE EXCEPTION"......................745

ONE EXCEPTION: THE EXCLUSIONARY RULE?......................747

THE FIFTH AMENDMENT......................................... ...........751

DUE PROCESS........................................... ........................752

ENTRAPMENT........................................ ...........................754

CONCLUSION...................................757

Continue... http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

[QueenB4Liberty]

Most cops enforce unconstitutional laws. I can't recall reading anything in the Constitution about having cops either.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

This will be a good read. Can't wait!

[AFPVet]

Most cops enforce unconstitutional laws. I can't recall reading anything in the Constitution about having cops either.

Limited federal law enforcement is under Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. State's have their own constitutions; however, most state constitutions mandate an elected sheriff.

[aGameOfThrones]

Bump!

[Pericles]

I suspect this is going to be really good.

[micahnelson]

10th amendment. Yes, cops are constitutional because they are established by local authorities. Would the FBI and CIA be constitutional? No probably not- but that said with a government this size I wish the FBI was merely an organization to investigate and prosecute corruption in the federal government.

[pcosmar]

Damn, I did a quick scan (speed read) and that is really good.
It seems to mirror the position that I have often taken on this board.
I have often read and really like http://www.constitution.org/
I will have to re read this slowly and in detail, but I suspect it will only reinforce my views.

The very concept of "police" is abhorrent.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Limited federal law enforcement is under Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. State's have their own constitutions; however, most state constitutions mandate an elected sheriff.

+1

cops are state based.

The Constitution is federal based.

Some things transfer - like the 4th amendment.

[aGameOfThrones]

THE CONSTITUTIONAL TEXT

The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement.11 Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding.12 Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government.13 Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.14

[specsaregood]

+1
cops are state based.

I thought most were city-based? And are really just private security forces since cities are incorporated? no?

[ItsTime]

I thought most were city-based? And are really just private security forces since cities are incorporated? no?

There are state, county and city (town) cops.

Seems pretty clear that they are constitutional

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[pcosmar]

There are state, county and city (town) cops.

Seems pretty clear that they are constitutional

Where do you get that from the article or the writings of the Founders.

Read The Article

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Yet the dissident English colonists who framed the United States Constitution would have seen this modern 'police state' as alien to their foremost principles. Under the criminal justice model known to the Framers, professional police officers were unknown.3 The general public had broad law enforcement powers and only the executive functions of the law (e.g., the execution of writs, warrants and orders) were performed by constables or sheriffs (who might call upon members of the community for assistance).4 Initiation and investigation of criminal cases was the nearly exclusive province of private persons.

[Dr.3D]

THE CONSTITUTIONAL TEXT

The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement.11 Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding.12 Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government.13 Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.14

At this time, people who enforce the law as originally intended end up being labeled a vigilante and often fined by those they apprehended and turned in to the authorities. This reminds me of the ranch owner along our southern border who has been fined by illegal aliens for holding them and calling the border patrol to take them off of his land.

[ItsTime]

Where do you get that from the article or the writings of the Founders.

Read The Article

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

I dont see in the Constitution where it limits state government from those actions?

[pcosmar]

At this time, people who enforce the law as originally intended end up being labeled a vigilante and often fined by those they apprehended and turned in to the authorities. This reminds me of the ranch owner along our southern border who has been fined by illegal aliens for holding them and calling the border patrol to take them off of his land.

I am more and more convinced that we are living in Bizzaro World.

[Dr.3D]

I am more and more convinced that we are living in Bizzaro World.

I am starting to wonder if the ranch owner has learned his lesson. Perhaps he is now thinking, dead people can't sue.

[pcosmar]

I dont see in the Constitution where it limits state government from those actions?

Do you find any call for , or recommendation of, in the writings of the Founders? Or in the constitution that strictly defines and limits the Federal enforcement powers.

In my reading I have found none, and warnings against such.

[ItsTime]

The discussion is starting to confuse the idea of a police for with the unconstitutional actions of that police force.

[pcosmar]

I am starting to wonder if the ranch owner has learned his lesson. Perhaps he is now thinking, dead people can't sue.

I was told that by a Cop years ago, In regards to personal carry.

[Dr.3D]

I was told that by a Cop years ago, In regards to personal carry.

So was I.

[ItsTime]

Should the federal government forbid states from having a police force? If so why?

[Dr.3D]

Should the federal government forbid states from having a police force? If so why?

What is the difference between a police force and a standing army?

[ItsTime]

What is the difference between a police force and a standing army?

So your argument is that the federal government should control local police?

[Dr.3D]

So your argument is that the federal government should control local police?

That would still be a standing army. There is not supposed to be a standing army.

[ItsTime]

Well they are not a standing army.

[Dr.3D]

Well they are not a standing army.

Right, they just look like one and act like one.
Both wear uniforms and carry weapons civilians are not allowed to have.

Prey tell, what is the difference between the two?

[pcosmar]

So your argument is that the federal government should control local police?

No it is my position that they are unneeded and unnecessary in a free society. And that a free people should not tolerate even the Idea of police.

I would like the very concept of police to vanish like the concept of the sun moon and stars revolving around the earth.

[aGameOfThrones]

Bump!

[FrankRep]

-> State/Locals Cops are Constitutional.

-> Federal Cops, UnConstitutional.