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Thread: Assange accuser flees country. Assange's lawyer says gov withholding documents

  1. #1

    Assange accuser flees country. Assange's lawyer says gov withholding documents

    Report: Assange accuser flees to Middle East, may not be cooperating with police

    Sweden withholding documentation on Assange probe: lawyer

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/a...erating-police



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  3. #2
    The article has a flaw . It is not treason they would try to charge him with , but espionage , I think .

  4. #3
    It doesn't say they would charge him with treason. It says they can't because he's not a US citizen and wasn't dumping documents inside the US.

    If anything it'd be espionage, but even that is a stretch considering they would also have to charge the NY Times and everyone else who released cables.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenB4Liberty View Post
    It doesn't say they would charge him with treason. It says they can't because he's not a US citizen and wasn't dumping documents inside the US.

    If anything it'd be espionage, but even that is a stretch considering they would also have to charge the NY Times and everyone else who released cables.
    Yeah , I have no idea how this will pan out . I think the govt. may have cleared the Times stuff .

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Agorism View Post
    Report: Assange accuser flees to Middle East, may not be cooperating with police

    Sweden withholding documentation on Assange probe: lawyer

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/a...erating-police
    Wow; no cooperation from victim; absence of witness/plaintiff; vague/no charges; ridiculous condom-rape laws; and no evidence of any real violation, including espionage (see pentagon-papers case) – yet Assange is still in jail. Amazing. Has his lawyer seen him today? Was he OK?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by idirtify View Post
    Wow; no cooperation from victim; absence of witness/plaintiff; vague/no charges; ridiculous condom-rape laws; and no evidence of any real violation, including espionage (see pentagon-papers case) – yet Assange is still in jail. Amazing. Has his lawyer seen him today? Was he OK?
    Yeah at some point do they not have to make a formal charge and give info to his lawyer ?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Yeah at some point do they not have to make a formal charge and give info to his lawyer ?
    That was certainly his lawyer’s complaint, but I don’t think they have the same due-process laws/rights over there. So who knows?

  9. #8
    Yes , there is probably someone on this board from that country .



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  11. #9

    Exclamation EU Home Affairs Minister, Swedish Justice Minister, DHS, DOJ Conspire on WIKILEAKS

    Oh, One Big Happy Family in the New World Order... it gets better... checkout this little coincidence from last week and today... 12/2/2010 12/9/2010

    EU's Minister of Home Affairs (EU's version of DHS) Annemie Turtleboom and Sweden's Minister of Justice Beatrice Ask... A week BEFORE Wikileaks Julian Assange's Arrest



    Today, 12/09/2010 in Washington DC... EU's Home Affairs Minister Annemie Turtleboom with DOJ Eric Holder and DHS Janet Napolitano.


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  12. #10
    I'm not an expert in espionage law but how do you charge someone with a crime when they were not even in the jurisdiction when the act was committed?

  13. #11
    Some of Ardin's most recent Tweets suggest sympathy for WikiLeaks.

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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    I'm not an expert in espionage law but how do you charge someone with a crime when they were not even in the jurisdiction when the act was committed?
    http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/espionageact.htm

    He'd probably be charged under Section (1)(b)
    (b) whoever for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts, or induces or aids another to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing or note of anything connected with the national defence;

    And U.S. courts have allowed U.S. laws to be applied to acts outside the U.S. For instance if you engaged in "sex tourism" and had sex with a minor you could be prosecuted.

    That said, if I was defending him against the charge I would start here:

    (a) whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defence with intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States....

    Nobody has alleged any real injury nor an intent to injure the U.S. Assange's stated intent is to help the U.S. by forcing the government to be more honest. Now the prosecution will argue that the leaks hurt the U.S. by crippling diplomatic efforts. But the burden of proof is on them. And it's difficult with the Obama administration running around doing damage control and saying this is all "no big deal". Every leak so far has either been innocuous (Putin is a mobster), in line with the Obama/neocon agenda (the Arabs hate Iran too) or exposing criminality (Hillary steals credit cards, DynCorp rapes children). In a fair trial Assange could actually win. That's why he won't get a fair trial.
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    I'm not an expert in espionage law but how do you charge someone with a crime when they were not even in the jurisdiction when the act was committed?
    Nah , the 1917 espionage law covers written matl. for anyone , anywhere , I think .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Nah , the 1917 espionage law covers written matl. for anyone , anywhere , I think .

    Wikileaks and the Pentagon Papers

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/12/09/32476.htm

    NEW YORK TIMES CO. v. UNITED STATES
    (The Pentagon Papers Case)
    403 U.S. 713 (1971)




    http://www.journalism.wisc.edu/~drec...gonPapers.html
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/espionageact.htm

    He'd probably be charged under Section (1)(b)
    (b) whoever for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts, or induces or aids another to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing or note of anything connected with the national defence;

    And U.S. courts have allowed U.S. laws to be applied to acts outside the U.S. For instance if you engaged in "sex tourism" and had sex with a minor you could be prosecuted.

    That said, if I was defending him against the charge I would start here:

    (a) whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defence with intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States....

    Nobody has alleged any real injury nor an intent to injure the U.S. Assange's stated intent is to help the U.S. by forcing the government to be more honest. Now the prosecution will argue that the leaks hurt the U.S. by crippling diplomatic efforts. But the burden of proof is on them. And it's difficult with the Obama administration running around doing damage control and saying this is all "no big deal". Every leak so far has either been innocuous (Putin is a mobster), in line with the Obama/neocon agenda (the Arabs hate Iran too) or exposing criminality (Hillary steals credit cards, DynCorp rapes children). In a fair trial Assange could actually win. That's why he won't get a fair trial.
    I would try to use this same angle to defend him as well .

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/espionageact.htm

    He'd probably be charged under Section (1)(b)
    (b) whoever for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts, or induces or aids another to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blue print, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing or note of anything connected with the national defence;

    And U.S. courts have allowed U.S. laws to be applied to acts outside the U.S. For instance if you engaged in "sex tourism" and had sex with a minor you could be prosecuted.

    That said, if I was defending him against the charge I would start here:

    (a) whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defence with intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States....

    Nobody has alleged any real injury nor an intent to injure the U.S. Assange's stated intent is to help the U.S. by forcing the government to be more honest. Now the prosecution will argue that the leaks hurt the U.S. by crippling diplomatic efforts. But the burden of proof is on them. And it's difficult with the Obama administration running around doing damage control and saying this is all "no big deal". Every leak so far has either been innocuous (Putin is a mobster), in line with the Obama/neocon agenda (the Arabs hate Iran too) or exposing criminality (Hillary steals credit cards, DynCorp rapes children). In a fair trial Assange could actually win. That's why he won't get a fair trial.
    I would question the definition of “the injury of the United States”. Is that an injury to the nation or to the nation’s government? The nation’s government is NOT the same as the nation; the government only represents the nation. And then they will need to define “injury”. If they ignore these important definitions/distinctions, of course there will be no problem proving “injury” (to the reputations of US representatives).

    I believe some US representatives (Gingrich, etc) have claimed that Assange said he wanted to hurt the US. But if that’s a spin of him saying he wanted to hurt the US government in order to help the US nation, it would be tragic to not address this distinction.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Yeah at some point do they not have to make a formal charge and give info to his lawyer ?
    We're talking about clapped-out, stupid to a fault, authoritarian, collectivist Europe where you have no rights except to collect free checks on the backs of god only knows whom. For them due process is whatever they say it is. $#@!s.
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