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Thread: The election after the election, how liberty took hold in the NH State House

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    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    Default The Election After the Elections, How Liberty Took Hold in the NH State House

    The Election After the Elections, How Liberty Took Hold in the NH State House

    It's true that the 2010 State House election results were the best ever for liberty candidates in New Hampshire. Around 14 Free State Project participants were elected. Dozens of libertarians were elected. Almost everyone the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance endorsed won. However, it is also clear that not all of the 298 GOPers (to 102 Dems) that control the NH State House are pro-liberty the vast majority of the time. Even though the GOP is far better in NH than almost any other state, there are still problems.

    The State Reps voted for Speaker of the House. It was a close race against a typical GOPer with a lot of experience and a generally pro-liberty GOPer that hangs out with the NHLA and helped co-chair the House Republican Alliance, the organization of NH State GOP Reps that are fiscally libertarian/conservative and are generally socially conservative. Bill O'Brien (A- rating by the NHLA), the HRA co-chair, became NH Speaker of the House by less than 10 votes. Normally, the Speaker of the House picks the Majority Leader. However, 2 of the 3 top people that wanted to be Majority Leader were highly pro-liberty and O'Brien decided to let the State Reps vote on it. D.J. Bettencourt (B+ rating by the NHLA) the most pro-liberty person running for Majority Leader, won the election.

    Other people in the NH State House leadership include:
    Gene Chandler (B+ rating by the NHLA)
    Alfred Baldasaro (A- rating by the NHLA)
    Jennifer Coffey (A rating by the NHLA)
    Paul Ingbretson (A- rating by the NHLA)
    Pamela Tucker (B+ rating by the NHLA)
    http://www.nhliberty.org/sites/defau...ng_rev0711.pdf

    This is the most pro-liberty State House leadership in the modern history of NH. I know it may be hard to understand this so I'll use the US Senate as an example.

    Imagine if Jim DeMint was in charge of the US Senate. Rand Paul was #3 and Tom Coburn was #4. That's what just happened in NH. And this wasn't a coup or anything as the majority of the State Reps in NH voted these guys to be their leadership. I cannot promise what will happen in NH over the next two years but I'm sure it will be more interesting than what happens in the state legislatures of every other state combined.

    Bonus:
    Some NH State Reps decided that they wanted to create a group that is even more pro-liberty than the House Republican Alliance so they created the Natural Rights Caucus. From the website, "The Natural Rights Caucus was founded last week by Representatives-elect Seth Cohn (Canterbury), JR Hoell (Dunbarton), George Lambert (Litchfield), Andrew J. Manuse (Derry), Daniel Tamburello (Londonderry) and Mark Warden (Goffstown). Former Rep. Don Gorman will be an ex-officio member of the caucus who will serve as its legislative counselor." These are libertarians and heck, Don Gorman is even one of the best know Libertarian Party members in New England. You may remember him. He is the Libertarian that was a state rep in NH when he lead the Libertarian Caucus in the NH House in the 1990s.
    http://naturalrightscaucus.org/
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 12-02-2010 at 05:23 PM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.



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    Maybe the modern history, but I don't think the NH State House in 1776 was any less "anti-liberty."
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    Maybe the modern history, but I don't think the NH State House in 1776 was any less "anti-liberty."
    I made some changes, including your tip.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    awesome! how can we maintain this? how can we help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by constitutional_insurgent View Post
    awesome! how can we maintain this? how can we help?
    The best way to help is to help fund the NHLA. The NHLA only endorses the people with the most pro-liberty voting records or that answered the NHLA survey with very pro-liberty answers. The NHLA gives money to those it endorses. The more money the NHLA has, the money money it can give to the best candidates and the more likely the candidates are to win their elections.

    http://www.nhliberty.org/donate

    Or, you could join the NHLA and maybe eventually start rating NH bills from where you are. The NHLA rates all NH bills on how pro-liberty they are and gives the results both to the general public and to the legislatures, making sure they understand the pro-liberty position on the major bills.
    http://www.nhliberty.org/join
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 12-02-2010 at 02:22 PM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by constitutional_insurgent View Post
    awesome! how can we maintain this? how can we help?
    Or for those how are tired of their state, join the Free State Project, move to NH and get involved on the ground :-)

    www.freestateproject.org

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    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    If anyone wants to know more about the House Republican Alliance, here is a 3 part video series about the group.
    YouTube - House Republican Alliance NH Pt. 1
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    If there are any NH liberty officials reading this forum, or you have contact with them, please look into changing the current use taxation law in NH. If people who own over 10 acres want tax breaks for their land, they can put it into a conservation easement. It makes no sense for someone owning 8.5 acres to be paying $2500 in taxes, while someone owning 11 acres pays $500 (results vary by area). Help get property taxes down in NH and more liberty minded folks will move there.

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    That kicks ass...I remember being involved on the Free State Project forums when they were first coming up with the idea of a Liberty Index. I even created a few Excel spreadsheets to show that just 2,000 liberty activists in the right districts could turn the elections around and have all liberty candidates win.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

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    I just wish they could achieve what they tried in Montana: http://www.montanasoundmoney.org/
    My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right, tend to be unwilling or unable to accept blame )

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    Not bad at all.....seeing the real project hasn't even officially begun. Im spreading the message, donating, attending the yearly events, and doing what I can from RI. Looking forward to 20,000

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    You guys in NH going for it again in the next election?

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    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    I don't understand the question
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    OK, folks, it is starting to happen.

    The House committee chairs and vice-chairs were announced.

    "Speaker O’Brien also announced the creation of two additional committees:

    * The Committee on Petitions for Redress of Grievances, which is required by Part I, Article 32 of the state constitution, will be chaired by Paul Ingbretson of Pike. Robert Willette of Milford will be that committee’s vice chairman.
    * The Committee on Constitutional Review and Statutory Recodification will be chaired by Daniel Itse of Fremont. John Cebrowski of Bedford will serve as that committee’s vice-chairman."

    "Executive Departments and Administration:

    * Chair—Carol McGuire, Epsom"

    Dan Itse and Carol McGuire are bother former New Hampshire Liberty Alliance board members.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    More good news, at least two of the committees have vice-chairs that are New Hampshire Liberty Alliance members.

    Also, at least two of the committees have more than one FSP mover.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    OK, there is a write up about this liberty loving speaker of the nh house,

    Fergus Cullen: Bill O'Brien's quick rise from backbencher to NH speaker
    By FERGUS CULLEN
    2 hours, 39 minutes ago

    Becoming speaker of the New Hampshire House of Representatives requires a long apprenticeship. Terie Norelli served five terms before she became speaker. Gene Chandler served seven. Doug Scamman needed eight. Donna Sytek took 10. Harold Burns waited eleven terms -- "22 short years," he joked -- before rising to speaker.

    Newly elected Speaker Bill O'Brien went from wide-eyed freshman backbencher to holding the gavel in just two terms, only one in the majority, without so much as chairing a subcommittee...
    More here, http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...c-6de0d7acf3ce
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    This was NH Rep Dan Itse back in 2007 explaining the NH Constitution in a 3 part video series.

    Presented by NH Liberty Alliance Political Director, NH Rep. Dan Itse, on 11/10/07.

    http://www.nhliberty.org/nh_constitution_class
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    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    Cool

    New info:

    NH State Rep Dan McGuire, a FSP participant and Republican Liberty Caucus board member was just elected as one of the co-chairs of the House Republican Alliance. One of the former co-chairs of the HRA is the current NH Speaker of the House so yes, this conservative/NH Constiutional group is pretty powerful in NH. The other House Republican Alliance co-chair is NH State Rep Marilinda Garcia. Marilinda is a great person. I still remember helping her win a NH House special election shortly after I moved to NH. Back then, many of her volunteers were from the The NH Republican Volunteer Coalition (NHRVC) which bills itself as a grassroots Republican libertarian organization. It is also a pretty powerful group in NH as it helped lobby for William O'Brien, the former HRA co-chair I mentioned above, to become the current NH Speaker of the House.

    Sorry, I know this may confuse some of you that aren't from NH but yeah, this is great news. The most powerful caucus in the NH State House is co-chaired by a libertarian leader and another person that has been highly supported by libertarians in the past.
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 12-22-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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    I FSPer in NH posted on a NH based conservative/libertarian blog about the FSP and the census. Someone posted a comment negative of the FSP. I replied to their comment. You may find my reply interesting.

    Here is the original blog post, http://granitegrok.com/blog/2010/12/...nd_the_fr.html

    If you just want to skip to my comment, here it is,

    Randy, 20,000 people haven't even signed up for the FSP yet so the official move hasn't even started for most people. There are more pro-liberty people elected to offices in NH than all of the rest of New England combined including dozens of solidly pro-liberty State Reps. 14 may not seem like a large number, but that is just FSP movers. FSP folks have also volunteered with the campaigns of dozens of other State Reps and at least 3 of the GOP State Senators.

    I don't know if you noticed, but early FSP movers are already in leadership positions of the drugs reform group, 3 of the 4 largest gun groups, the NHLA, the Republican House of Representatives Caucus, the Republican House Alliance Caucus and the Natural Rights Caucus (the last 3 are groups of State Reps in NH that decided to caucus together for various reasons).

    But don't worry, I don't know a single FSPer that wants to dominate the NH state government. If anything, they want to not control anything but instead give as much power and financial decision making back to the people, where it belongs.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    If anyone wants to know more about the House Republican Alliance, here is a 3 part video series about the group.
    YouTube - House Republican Alliance NH Pt. 1
    awesome thread! the only thing keeping me from NH is the climate! My wife has 14 fused vertebrae! People might think it is colder in the co mtns but just the opposite. It is dryer and usually warmer in the winter unless your south of colorado! I wish you guys the best in NH and when i finally have some extra $$. I would be more then willing to give my support

    At this point we are looking into southern colorado(salida/durango area aka banana belt) or joining Adam Kokesh in NM for the LIBERTY Fight in the next few yrs! maybe create a liberty farm or county in Colorado For my wife's health we need to find a somewhat warmer climate. If we cannot find something affordable in CO/NM we just might be forced to leave our country

    ps we have some great friends in minnesota who have offered to have us out there but i would have to make a full heat suit for my wife
    Last edited by speciallyblend; 12-28-2010 at 03:58 AM.
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    QFT!

    I was looking at real estate in NH and I mean, I've never been there but I love that State! I speak to people from NH on a daily basis for work- and they are some of the kindest and most lucid Americans I have encountered!

    The ONE aspect I saw that I did not like, were the property taxes...boy are they high.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    If there are any NH liberty officials reading this forum, or you have contact with them, please look into changing the current use taxation law in NH. If people who own over 10 acres want tax breaks for their land, they can put it into a conservation easement. It makes no sense for someone owning 8.5 acres to be paying $2500 in taxes, while someone owning 11 acres pays $500 (results vary by area). Help get property taxes down in NH and more liberty minded folks will move there.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    QFT!
    The ONE aspect I saw that I did not like, were the property taxes...boy are they high.
    All depends on where you look. Check out this map: http://www.joeshimkus.com/NH-Tax-Rates.aspx For example Rye has a mill rate under 10.00. I don't know how that compares to the rest of the country but it's less than a third of the rate my parent's pay for their house in Connecticut (on top of all the other taxes NH doesn't have, like general sales and state income).

  26. #25

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    NH property taxes are high because they fund most everything. The issue I am trying to bring forward is something called "current use" which allows people with over 10 acres to receive major tax breaks which others need to cover. Property owners pay a penalty for taking property out of current use, but it pales in comparison to the amount saved for the lucky owner who has 10 or more acres.

    The theory is that if land is not developed it does not represent a burden on services - makes sense. However you can have an empty lot of 1 acre and pay $1,800/yr in taxes, while the guy next door has 11 acres and pays $50. It's a racket and really needs to be changed. If people want to keep their property undeveloped they can put it into a conservation easement... otherwise they are putting the burden on other taxpayers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    The theory is that if land is not developed it does not represent a burden on services - makes sense. However you can have an empty lot of 1 acre and pay $1,800/yr in taxes, while the guy next door has 11 acres and pays $50. It's a racket and really needs to be changed. If people want to keep their property undeveloped they can put it into a conservation easement... otherwise they are putting the burden on other taxpayers.
    I agree that NH certainly has a lot of problems. However, it tends to both have less problems than other states and easier ways to fix them. Of course, the biggest draw is that some of the very best activists in the world have been moving to NH for years and the tend will likely continue for years to come. That far and away separates it from all other destinations.

    As for the current use system in NH. I don't think it will go away in the next few years. However, it's easy for people that don't participant in it to take advantage of it. Most land in NH is privately owned. However, most land in NH is open to hunting and hiking so even though some one else owns the land, typically you can enjoy it to a great extent. Many of the Western states have large percentages of the states owned by the federal government and maintained by taxes. The NH system seems vastly superior to that system (from a liberty point of view), at least.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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    Most land in NH is privately owned. However, most land in NH is open to hunting and hiking so even though some one else owns the land, typically you can enjoy it to a great extent.
    You are not allowed to use someone elses property if they put it into current use, and it's posted no tresspassing - which most is. You would think that you could... but you can't. I do agree that NH is superior in many respects.. but by fixing the current use system it would help reduce taxes for the average taxpayer and make it an even better place to live. Would'nt be much of a drop but it would be something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbc58 View Post
    You are not allowed to use someone elses property if they put it into current use, and it's posted no tresspassing - which most is. You would think that you could... but you can't. I do agree that NH is superior in many respects.. but by fixing the current use system it would help reduce taxes for the average taxpayer and make it an even better place to live. Would'nt be much of a drop but it would be something.
    The vast majority of land in NH doesn't have no trespassing signs posted around it. It is, in fact, open to use by everyone.
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    The vast majority of land in NH doesn't have no trespassing signs posted around it. It is, in fact, open to use by everyone.
    No it's not. Some rural areas with very large tracts where no one keeps tabs maybe - but not in towns. You can't just go onto someone's property .... sorry. There are various exceptions but universally you are not allowed on someones land.

    From the "SPACE" (current use owners ) website:

    Isn't it true that all Current Use land is open to the public?
    No. There is no requirement for Current Use landowners to allow public use of their land. Current Use land is private property and the landowner has the right to decide how their property is used.
    Last edited by cbc58; 12-29-2010 at 05:34 PM.

  31. #30

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    Here's one of the exceptions mentioned before:

    One category of current use tax reduction requires the landowner to keep his land open to public use, including hunting, in order to get an additional 20% tax reduction. This is a real incentive to keep private land open to hunting. Check with town officials for Current Use tax land.
    This is not very prevelant to my knowledge except maybe in very rural areas. Also, fyi, if your land is not posted "no hunting", hunters can come right through your property hunting and drop a deer in your front yard, as long it doesn't endanger you or the neighbors. Live free or die.
    Last edited by cbc58; 12-29-2010 at 06:25 PM.

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