Should i join the military?

[Acala]

Please do not join the military. You do not need college or the military to live a satisfied life. You can be satisfied by working construction making $15-$20somthing an hour and living a modest lifestyle.

My wife and I are both about to graduate from college. By society's standard, we can live successful lives. With our degrees (hers, really) we can live anywhere in the world. We could live anywhere in the states and make tons of money. But what we have discovered is that "success" is crap. If we could do it all over again, we would not go to college.

If I could go back in time I would learn a blue collar trade like electric, plumbing or construction and just work at the journeymen level while taking my sweet time to get a masters and maybe start my own company. Some of the people I admire the most are from my church back home. They are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and working construction-type jobs. They own less than ten acres and have a small home or a doublewide on it. The husband works 40-50 hours a week while the wife chills at home with the kids (or she works if she wants to, or if they have no kids). They do not live in fancy homes, drive fancy cars, and blow money on expensive items and vacations. But they spend TONS of quality time together every single week. They go on hikes, to the lake, ski, water ski, or 4-wheeling every week. They will never be rich or "successful" by society's standards, but they will always have a nice, clean home and food on the table. They stash a little bit of money away every month so they can retire a modest retirement when they are old.

My point in all of this is don't by into the "do what it takes to be successful" garbage. You think that you have to join college or the military to become successful. I disagree. Be the best waiter that you can be. Work your way into a pimpin restaurant so that you make some decent money. Or find a simple trade like I have explained. Getting jobs that society deems successful is not fulfilling. Marry your girlfriend. Rent a nice home or someday buy a lower-end home. Spend your time doing outdoor activities that don't cost money. Enjoy spending time with your woman and nature. This will be more fulfilling to you than slaving away at college or the military just so you can afford to buy more useless crap.

This^

I have a law degree and a good job. If I could do it over with what I know now I would trade it in a second for a skilled trade like welding or locksmithing. Be your own boss. Help people with their problems. Work in the underground economy. Have something truly useful to offer your fellow man.

[furface]

I struck up a conversation with a soldier returning from Afghanistan in the airport a few weeks ago. He told me a long list of injuries he had. The one I remembered was traumatic brain injury. You could tell by talking to him that there was something off about him. He said he wanted to get a job, but I doubt he could. I told him to get onto disability which I'm sure he'd qualify. Although the army wanted him to stay and do a couple of more tours he had had enough.

My point is that there's a lot of danger of really nasty things like brain damage and limb amputation. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

[klamath]

Me either. But she isn't the type to make up stories...so, it's second-hand info, for what it's worth--and translated from Thai.

Either way, he was an outstanding swimmer and ended up "drowning" and I witnessed the military essentially standing guard over a closed coffin. Don't know if that's common either.

Were they standing guard or part of an honor guard? This is a time honored tradition in the military. If you have ever been to the tomb of the unknown soldier at Arlinton national cemetary there is a guard there 24 hours a day.
Did you see the soldiers stop people from opening the coffin? If so do you know if the mother requested to have it opened or requested to have it closed? If she requested to have it closed then yes they would have honored and enforced her request.

[heavenlyboy34]

I would say no. Learn a craft or valuable skill that will be both enjoyable for you and in demand. Definitely do research before you pick a field, and talk to people in that field. If you still feel like joining the military after all that thought, join the National Guard or a local militia so you don't have to fight in illegal, immoral wars.

[TC95]

I'm 21 and i have been a waiter for the last 2-3 years. I tried college, but didn't like it. My girlfriend's dad is a former Navy SEAL and has connection to get me in. With that said im not a supporter of our foreign policy, but i see this a the best way for me to have career path down the road.

Why kill people for wars you don't believe in? Killing just because the government says so is not an honorable thing, career or not. Better to be poor and have a clean conscience.

[klamath]

I would say no. Learn a craft or valuable skill that will be both enjoyable for you and in demand. Definitely do research before you pick a field, and talk to people in that field. If you still feel like joining the military after all that thought, join the National Guard or a local militia so you don't have to fight in illegal, immoral wars.

Bad advice. Your will go to war in the national guard. I know too well

[amy31416]

Were they standing guard or part of an honor guard? This is a time honored tradition in the military. If you have ever been to the tomb of the unknown soldier at Arlinton national cemetary there is a guard there 24 hours a day.
Did you see the soldiers stop people from opening the coffin? If so do you know if the mother requested to have it opened or requested to have it closed? If she requested to have it closed then yes they would have honored and enforced her request.

Her mom is Thai, she wanted to crawl into the coffin with him--they stopped her and wouldn't allow her to even look. I don't think anyone else tried, but I wasn't there for the entire event.

Language barrier though, so it's 2nd hand info from my friend who translated later. They seemed to be standing guard, though there was some military service that they took part in as well.

[Acala]

Before you commit to anything that is going to send you into combat, be sure and spend a few hours at the VA. Get a good look at the life people live when they have no legs or are severely burned. And then remember this: for every one of those that are visibly injured there are probably another ten that are emotionally wounded in a way that will never heal.

The guys just back in country won't tell you because many of them don't know yet. It takes five to ten years before PTSD ruins their lives. Talk to the Viet Nam vets or Desert Storm vets.

Maybe you think you are too tough to have emotional problems. They ALL thought that. That's one of the main reasons it takes them ten years before they get any help. The macho military culture looks down on "psychological" injuries. So they stuff it down for years, self-medicating with alcohol or worse, fighting intrusive thoughts, flashbacks, and uncontrollable rage. Until they lose everything and hit rock bottom. Then, if they haven't turned their finely honed killing ability on themselves, they get help. Then they discover the REALLY bad news: there really isn't any help to be had. Oh, they will supress the symptoms somewhat with drugs and give you some cognitive therapy so maybe you can at least be functional and limp through the rest of your life. But they have no cure for you. And the DOD is desperate. Of course they try and downplay the problem, but meanwhile they are trying ANYTHING to fix the broken vets that are piling up around the country.

Do your own research on it.

I'm no expert. The reason I know a little bit about it is that I teach mindfulness meditation and there is some research to suggest that mindfulness meditation will help with PTSD. So some folks around here tried to put together a meditation program for vets. We failed. Again and again. Why did we fail? Because most of these poor guys can't do meditation. They are either so drugged up that they can't concentrate or, if they aren't, they can't sit still for five minutes. They typically have terrible psychosomatic pain as soon as they try to sit still and focus their attention. And if they can sit through that, then there is a substantial risk of triggering a violent outburst. The vast majority try it once and don't come back. We would start a class series with 10 vets and were lucky to have one attend the eighth class.

Here's the problem: their nervous systems are damaged. Literally measurable organic damage caused by chronic stress and acute trauma. Because the control system is damaged they can't control themselves to get through the therapy.

We finally arrived at the conclusion that it is almost inmpossible to fix them once they are broken and so instead we are focusing on training them BEFORE they deploy. Essentially immunizing them so they will suffer less damage and when they get back will already have some ability to do the practice. This looks to be a promising approach based on some studies done by others under DOD grants, but it is far from SOP at this point.

The bottom line is that in addition to the risk of being killed or maimed, there is a significant chance that intense combat will leave you emotionally damaged for life.

It is your choice, but if you don't take this into account you are not making a rational decision.

[PaulineDisciple]

I didn't have time to read all of this thread yet but I browsed each page and didn't see any mention of a much better alternative; join a local militia.

I joined the military in the mid 80's and reflecting on what my experience I have come to the conclusion that all you learn is how to exercise and follow orders, they seem to purposefully ignore the most important aspects of service in this country, like defending the Constitution, which just so happens to be the main purpose outlined in the oath you take when joining. They never teach you the Constitution, what it means and what would constitute an un-Constitutional order and your duty to disobey such an order. I am convinced that all of this is purposeful.

I am not sure if all basic training is done the same way at each base, I had basic training at Ft. Dix NJ, or whether or not things are different now, although I wouldn’t imagine the training has gotten any better, but I had to wait until I got out of the service to really learn how to shoot, which should be one of the most emphasized skills in basic training. Although I am sure branches that specialize in shooting skills probably teach more advanced shooting skills like studying ballistic charts for each round you are using and how to compensate for wind and drop, the basic training I had simply taught cleaning and safety skills, which is good, but they totally ignored the most basic skills of proper shooting techniques and becoming a marksman.

Also, the guns you are issued are crap, you can’t carry them around on base for your own protection, note the Ft. Hood incident, and you don’t get to keep them when you leave. The amount of time spent on political correctness made me sick. IMO, the current state of our military is intentionally dumbed-down and feminized. Go to AR15.com and M4Carbine.com read up on who makes a good rifle, like BCM, LMT, Spikes etc. get you a good rifle and join a local militia. I think you will find that local militia leaders are better teachers, are far more dedicated to defending the Constitution and much more knowledgeable about the weapons and support technologies needed to defend your family, community and nation.

Here’s a good site to find a local militia in your neck of the woods;
http://www.awrm.org/

You seem like you have had your eyes opened and realize that our military is no longer being used to defend the Constitution but to serve the bankers and the corporations that have grown up around them, a cartel that Eisenhower and Ron Paul has labeled the military-industrial complex. I had a nephew that was getting ready to join and I directed him to read the documents on our governments use of the military as documented at the National Security Archive. Anyone who spends just a short time reading the declassified documents on that site pertaining to the use of our military or its proposed use over the last 50 years will quickly change their mind about joining the military if they have even an ounce of common sense, here is a link where you can get started in educating yourself;

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/

So by all means, learn the skills of a Patriot but do so independently of the military-industrial complex and you will be better trained, have better equipment that is yours to keep and free to do things on your own time and on your own terms.

[wildfirepower]

Should i join the military?

Join the military when USA withdraws all their soldiers from Afghanstan and Iraq otherwise you will be killed in Afghanistan for no reason at all.

[Pericles]

Yeah so you're only assisting others who do the killing.

Hope that works out for your conscience.

That seemed to be the attitude of my fellow citizens that used to thow beer cans (partially full) at those of us wearing military uniforms.

[oyarde]

That seemed to be the attitude of my fellow citizens that used to thow beer cans (partially full) at those of us wearing military uniforms.

If someone was throwing partially full beers at me , I would make an attempt to catch those

[Pericles]

If someone was throwing partially full beers at me , I would make an attempt to catch those

Unfortunately, they were open and dispensing contents during flight. And this was in the 1980s, long after what I thought would have passed from the awareness of the Vietnam "baby killer" adherents.

[oyarde]

Unfortunately, they were open and dispensing contents during flight. And this was in the 1980s, long after what I thought would have passed from the awareness of the Vietnam "baby killer" adherents.

I was in during the 80's , never had a civilian throw anything at me . I should be grateful . When that happened were you in Europe or on one of the Coasts ?

[Pericles]

I was in during the 80's , never had a civilian throw anything at me . I should be grateful . When that happened were you in Europe or on one of the Coasts ?

Europeans don't waste beer. They would tell you to just go home - as I was living off post in a small town, I would reply "fine, I live only 5 kilometers from here."

By the mid 80s the US was much better about how it treated GIs - it would seem that for the last 10 years, the anti-war crowd has been trying to reverse the trend.

[oyarde]

Europeans don't waste beer. They would tell you to just go home - as I was living off post in a small town, I would reply "fine, I live only 5 kilometers from here."

Figures , here then .

[Natalie]

//

[Anti Federalist]

I think some of the naysayers here need to brush up on their diplomacy skills. "Hell no!" isn't very insightful advice. The "Join if you want to be a murderer" isn't very helpful either. These kinds of statements aren't going to be too effective with young men who may think they have a thirst for adventure, be it right or wrong. Furthermore, these kinds of statements won't help us win elections, and will really alienate people who may otherwise be converted.

For what it's worth, I would argue against joining the military at this time. Having said that, I also have some experience with it, and can understand your feelings I'd imagine. I had joined the Army Reserve in 2002, before we had even gotten involved in Iraq. I was in college at the time, and the thought of going active duty wasn't a consideration, especially since I had moved around during my childhood (ten schools in twelve years) and would not enjoy continuing that in the active military. I had joined as a Combat Engineer, despite having almost maxed out the ASVAB test. In fact, some of the other would-be soldiers at the MEPS station had thought I was crazy for not joining the Air Force, or some cushier MOS. But, being the young man I was, I had a thirst for the more adventurous, combat arms side.

I ended up getting deployed to Iraq in 2003, and had invaded with the initial strike. Now, I don't have any horror story to tell you as a cautionary tale against joining; hell, I didn't even have to fire my weapon. However, I will tell you that while I was there with nothing but time to think, I had wondered what the hell the point of being there was. From my perspective, it really was a cluster$#@!, and nothing but a waste of resources and military personnel.

Sure, rolling through a city while guns are blasting is quite the excitment, I cannot deny that. However, that sort of adrenaline rush was far less than 1% of the overseas experience. Most of it was either boring or annoying. Imagine if you will, wearing full military gear in the blazing sun, doing hard labor, and refreshing yourself with water that is almost as hot as coffee. Imagine picking up $#@!ty toilet paper that the wind had swept away from a make$#@! bathroom so that we could impress some goddamned officer. Imagine waking up with a layer of sand on you, every single morning. Imagine hearing Islamic chants on loudspeakers for days on end. Imagine having an out of company inspection of our areas to make sure we didn't have pictures of naked women. Imagine wanting to see your girlfiend or wife, or your child being born. Imagine the stench of rotting animal carcasses while travelling along the roads. Imagine the sight of a blown up bus, with dismembered parts of men, women, and children, who were clearly neither terrorist nor enemy combatant. Now, imagine what is actually being accomplished, and whether or not it is truly worth it.

The bottom line is that as our government becomes increasingly irresponsible, the idea of serving in its armies to do its dirty work becomes ever more distasteful. Most politicians have pissing contests in which they try to demonstrate how much they love and support the troops. The politicians only use the troops for political capital. The reality is that they don't give a $#@! about you, and would never dream of performing the tasks that they would have you do. In fact, they even look down upon you as being a filthy dog. This is not an age of the Heroic Ideal, in which at least the king and nobility would shed their blood with you. No, our current system of warfare is far less honorable than it was during the medieval era, at least in terms of the elites' involvement.

Ultimately, I have no problem with the military. It is there to perform a function. However, the problem I have is with the people, most of whom would never even think of serving, who use others as their pawns. I can accept being a pawn in a strategic military sense, but not in a poltical one.

To sum up, stay home, make love to your woman, and don't bother joining a conflict which our masters in Washington have no intention or clue of winning.

Bravo, +rep

[Roxi]

pleeeeeeeeeeease tell me the OP is satire. Please?

There are a gazillion ways to "get a career"

[98Tokay]

“When men hire themselves out to shoot other men
to order, asking nothing about the justice of their cause,
I don’t care if they are shot themselves.”
- Herbert Spencer

[cindy25]

the skills/interests you mentioned could also be used in local law enforcement, forest ranger, border patrol, EMT or firefighter, all without making a 4 or 8 year commitment.

[Reason]

Don't do it.

It was a mistake that I regret.

You could easily end up loosing your life, your girl, your morality, your body, etc.

It's bad news all around.

[amy31416]

I know I commented on this thread, but I never came right out and said "HELL NO" to the OP's inquiry.

If you live through it, you will likely be completely mentally and/or physically effed up for life, if you don't kill yourself like so many other ex/current military.

[oyarde]

I know I commented on this thread, but I never came right out and said "HELL NO" to the OP's inquiry.

If you live through it, you will likely be completely mentally and/or physically effed up for life, if you don't kill yourself like so many other ex/current military.

These are great risks ..... I did it when young . I wanted to see the world and did . It is not for everybody . Special ops really not for everybody . I was fortunate , no injuries that did not heal fairly well , I think I am still sound of mind ...

[brandon]

YouTube - 'Universal Soldier' by Buffy Sainte-Marie on QTV

[amy31416]

These are great risks ..... I did it when young . I wanted to see the world and did . It is not for everybody . Special ops really not for everybody . I was fortunate , no injuries that did not heal fairly well , I think I am still sound of mind ...

Well the verdict's out.

I'm specifically talking about people who serve during wartime, those who actually kill people and get shot at. I don't know if you served during a major conflict or not....either way, your opinion probably holds more weight than mine. But my opinion is still "hell no."

[oyarde]

Well the verdict's out.

I'm specifically talking about people who serve during wartime, those who actually kill people and get shot at. I don't know if you served during a major conflict or not....either way, your opinion probably holds more weight than mine. But my opinion is still "hell no."

Truth is , the violence may effect people differently and you really are not going to be able to predict how it may effect yourself or others .

[Acala]

YouTube - 'Universal Soldier' by Buffy Sainte-Marie on QTV

I seem to recall that the Good Doctor specifically requested that Amy Allen perform this song at the Rally. So I think we can deduce that Ron Paul hopes that the people will help to end our aggressive foreign policy by refusing to participate.

[bkreigh]

The decision is up to man. Sometimes is get the feeling that a lot of folks in here think everybody in the military goes abroad and kills folks for sport. I just passed my 9 year mark and i have fired a weapon only once and that was in basic training.

Its simple. Do you research on all 5 branches. Within those 5 branches research the different rates and what they do. In my 9 years i have been going home pretty much every night and sleeping in my own bed with the exception of the recent BP spill and training course out of the area.

Now do i enjoy my job all the time? Heck no. I dont know anybody that does. But also dont lose any sleep over the missions i do. Furthermore, i have fun talking politics with folks in the office.

Do your due dilligence and make your own decision. I didnt really do much any reasearch and just joined. I am thankful i the cards lined up for me though. I think it was just dumb luck but that doesnt mean your decision has to be luck though. All i can say is RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!!!!!!

[Acala]

The decision is up to man.

Of course, but he asked our opinion. Saying "it's up to you" isn't giving him an opinion. It is refusing his request.

Sometimes is get the feeling that a lot of folks in here think everybody in the military goes abroad and kills folks for sport. I just passed my 9 year mark and i have fired a weapon only once and that was in basic training.!!!!!!!!

He is talking about the SEALS. I'm not an expert but I am thinking that SEALS generally end up shooting people.