View Poll Results: Is The United States Of America Officially Dead as a Country for Freedom Or Liberty??

Voters
59. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    23 38.98%
  • No

    15 25.42%
  • Maybe

    21 35.59%
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Thread: Is The United States Of America Officially Dead as a Country for Freedom Or Liberty??

  1. #1

    Arrow Is The United States Of America Officially Dead as a Country for Freedom Or Liberty??

    Hi Folks, I ask this question since we were raised to believe our country stood for Liberty and Freedom! At this point i am 42 and i honestly want to know if folks think this country can be saved or is it beyond saving??

    Personally i think we have passed the maybe point and are going for the downhill now!

    so my question is this. Can The Unites States Of America be saved from the US Corrupt Government or is it beyond saving from the corrupt politicians who have destroyed this country from within!!!!!
    Last edited by speciallyblend; 11-27-2010 at 09:13 PM.
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.



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  3. #2
    I voted yes but lean maybe if we can get Ron Paul the gop nomination!! Ron Paul 2012
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  4. #3
    Golding
    Member

    No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Golding View Post
    No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.
    I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor
    It is not just the federal government. If the federal government disappeared tomorrow the state, county and town I live would still be a big pain in the ass.

    Not sure about Southern Colorado but I bet there is still oppressive property taxes, zoning laws, mineral and water rights issues. The biggest threat to freedom as I see it is property taxes. Things would be different if property taxes were illegal under Constitution.

  7. #6
    Yes. I'd say the world, too. Human beings simply have a flawed genetic code that cause us to think the wrong way.

  8. #7

    saturated target area

    freedom and liberty are definitely on the ropes, but not dead yet. the recent backlash about the nakedizer scanners and grope downs (they are not pat downs anymore) is a good sign. people are still not awake in sufficient numbers though.

    we are down on a lot of fronts and a major reason for it is the UN's Agenda 21, which is sneaking in at the federal, state, county, city, rural, and corporate levels. that's one reason it's so overwhelming.

    lynn
    proof of explosives in WTC on 9/11 .....
    peer-reviewed paper in scientific journal - unreacted flakes of Thermite found in WTC dust!
    http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/ar...002/7TOCPJ.pdf
    videos:
    Entire Steven E Jones presentation at PNAC event in UT, Austin, Texas
    video:
    PNAC Rebuilding America's Senses Steven Jones Lecture


    architects and engineers for 9/11 truth
    http://www.ae911truth.org/

  9. #8
    Golding
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor
    True enough, but it also depends somewhat on priorities. I made it a point to leave for a while, expand my horizons, and somehow fit it into my career direction. It's definitely interesting to view the US from the outside for a while. I've been fortunate enough to see a great deal these past few years. Living in many different states, spending time in a third-world country that's developing its Constitution now. Been overwhelmed with lots of perspective.
    Last edited by Golding; 11-27-2010 at 09:53 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It is not just the federal government. If the federal government disappeared tomorrow the state, county and town I live would still be a big pain in the ass.

    Not sure about Southern Colorado but I bet there is still oppressive property taxes, zoning laws, mineral and water rights issues. The biggest threat to freedom as I see it is property taxes. Things would be different if property taxes were illegal under Constitution.
    I totally agree!! There might be a few counties in central colorado worth saving I will never truly own land in the US since they make sure you never do!!
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  12. #10
    I feel like we are absolutely $#@!ed, every day is worse than the last, and its never as good as it seems. I take comfort in the fact that there are people who understand our natural rights and speak up against oppression, but America is becoming a place where it will no longer be safe to do so. I think if "We the People" revolted today, It would be too late. We would be slaughtered in the street's and the masses wouldn't mourn us or understand why we died. lol jk.
    Last edited by phx420; 11-27-2010 at 09:58 PM.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Golding View Post
    True enough, but it also depends somewhat on priorities. I made it a point to leave for a while, expand my horizons, and somehow fit it into my career direction. It's definitely interesting to view the US from the outside for a while.
    all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!
    Not to forget your mandatory health insurance premium coming soon or pay the penalty. I have been shooting for the same thing in a very rural area but property taxes and mandatory health insurance presents a cost issue.

    As far as Costa Rica, I have considered that also. Have you mastered the language, waiting until the time comes or know of a good english speaking enclave down there?

  16. #14
    Maybe...

    I always like, and ask this question when I cast my vote.

    Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Not to forget your mandatory health insurance premium coming soon or pay the penalty. I have been shooting for the same thing in a very rural area but property taxes and mandatory health insurance presents a cost issue.

    As far as Costa Rica, I have considered that also. Have you mastered the language, waiting until the time comes or know of a good english speaking enclave down there?
    I will never pay the mandatory health insurance or penalty. We actually had insurance and paid for many yrs and got into a major car wreck that ended up hurting my wife badly. Insurance covered everything then after her major surgery denied it leaving us with 500,000 in medical bills and then that started the slide where we lost our house and cars and everything! The fact is i will move the f out of this country before i ever pay a dime in the BULL$#@! Insurance racket that f'ed us and left us with a half a mil in medical bills! FTG and FTI. The IRS owes me 3-4,000 dollars and the gov can go f themselves over mandatory health coverage!! I only make 12 dollars an hr. The gov can go f themselves!

    F Corporations
    F IRS
    F Insurance
    and if i left anyone else out F Them TO!!!!


    I have not mastered the language yet but there are english enclaves and i have a few folks i know thru the liberty movement that speak highly of costa rica and a few that actually live there,of course i have to save money to just move there. i hope to buy some land in colorado but the more i think about it! The way our country is going? costa rica sounds like the main plan but i truly love colorado. I am very torn but if things keep going this way the us gov will help me make my decision for me Costa Rica or the moon!!
    Last edited by speciallyblend; 11-27-2010 at 10:52 PM.
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  18. #16
    $#@!.


    I answered no(only because I'm still living, and as long as I live and breathe, I will fight), then read your post.


    Now it's a maybe.



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  20. #17
    Don't mean to be a debbie downer here but liberty, once lost, is very very hard to get back and is usually lost forever as we have seen throughout History.


    "[On ancient Athens]: In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again. "
    — Edward Gibbon

  21. #18
    I accidentally voted yes but I meant no. If there was no hope then there'd be no point in what we do.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    I accidentally voted yes but I meant no. If there was no hope then there'd be no point in what we do.
    Do Not get me Wrong i am not giving up Ron Paul 2012 I will be a republican delegate
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    Do Not get me Wrong i am not giving up Ron Paul 2012 I will be a republican delegate
    I just realized the question you asked in your OP has the opposite spin as the one in the poll title. Yes, it can be saved. No, it is not dead.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Golding View Post
    No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.
    While a comparison is always warranted, it’s not really fair in this case. There will always be far worse-off countries, but this doesn’t really speak to the current decline of ours – or the tragic nature of it. Pointing to worse examples is like trying to minimize the complaints of a slave by telling him he should feel lucky to be alive.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by idirtify View Post
    While a comparison is always warranted, it’s not really fair in this case. There will always be far worse-off countries, but this doesn’t really speak to the current decline of ours – or the tragic nature of it. Pointing to worse examples is like trying to minimize the complaints of a slave by telling him he should feel lucky to be alive.
    Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wormyguy View Post
    Yes. I'd say the world, too. Human beings simply have a flawed genetic code that cause us to think the wrong way.
    While I get your drift (and somewhat agree), your wording is a little harsh. Instead of “genetic code” (which implies more permanence), I would be more critical of our state of education and more blameful of our environment. Americans in particular generally came from a very bad recent history (all “recent” immigrants).

  27. #24
    I vote Maybe.

    I see some glimmers of hope with the election of Rand Paul, Justin Amash, and Gunny. BUT we need a lot more victories before we return to a truely free country.


    Don't give up hope! Read the accounts of the hardships faced by the patriots during the Revolutionary War.
    In 200 years the American people have replaced 1 dictator 3,000 miles away with 3,000 dictators 1 mile away.


    It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.--Benjamin Franklin

    No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe
    while our legislature is in session
    .--Benjamin Franklin



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?
    While that’s a good question, it’s not too relevant; since few have the option to just move to a different country. Most are faced with the local situation, like it or not.

  30. #26
    Largely, my only hope is Internet communication. Being able to talk to you fine folks is priceless. Never has government been able to completely strangle its people so long as the lines of communication remain open – and never has there been better lines than now. In essence, the gov is trying something it has never tried before.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?
    if you can move easily, obviously the best thing to do is to live in a country with eroding freedom and move just before it collapses to the other country with growing freedom.

    the problem is figuring out when is the right time to leave, because if you wait too much, you might not be allowed to leave.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!
    How about southern MN?
    Seriously.
    "This here's Miss Bonnie Parker. I'm Clyde Barrow. We rob banks."

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac Bickerstaff View Post
    How about southern MN?
    Seriously.
    you guys are the best you would be on my top list We need to come visit you guys this spring or summer but you know our door is always open for you to come ski/board the co mtns

    haha love your location name
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  34. #30
    I voted no. Never give up; never surrender! I'm the most cynical bastard in the world, but so long as there is one person in the U.S. fighting for freedom, it is not dead.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

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