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Thread: Need Help: Ill. Immigration Still A Problem For Ron in 2012

  1. #1

    Unhappy Need Help: Ill. Immigration Still A Problem For Ron in 2012

    I've been trying to defend Ron's stance on illegal immigration since I first got involved in his '08 presidential run. Unfortunately, I haven't done a very good job and could use some suggestions on how to improve.

    Despite all his positives, this is the one issue that some voters still cling to as a reason as to why they won't vote for him. They claim that he's a Libertarian and that all Libertarians are for open borders.

    There's always a few people - especially on the ALIPAC forums - who use this one issue as a reason to convince others not to vote for him. Check this out - there is a very active thread going on there right now about Ron Paul in 2012.

    Here's one example:

    Paul says that people who attack bi-lingualism are "jealous and feel inferior." He says that if we had a truly free market economy "illegal immigrants would no longer be the scapegoat. We would realize that we would probably need them, and they woud be acceptable."

    Illegal immigration was ruining California in the late 80s, meanwhile Paul was making this asinine assertion. California was experiencing what the rest of the nation is just now waking up to. The stage was being set for the outright take-over of my state. Illegal immigration was definitely a problem for California in 1988. It just wasn't a problem for Ron Paul.

    Furthermore, I don't believe his views have even changed all that much. The only probem he mentions now days is the welfare state. Not crime. Not wage depression. Not anti-Americanism. Just welfare. All of these things were starting to ruin California in the 1980s and he had no problem with it. He has slightly changed his views since then, but they are essentially the same -- end welfare, and open up immigration.

    http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-218855-d...derasc-50.html

    Any feedback on how to defend Ron Paul here? We may want to consider how to defend his stance on this issue as well as his foreign policy so that we may be better prepared in 2012.
    Paranoia is having all of the facts.
    www.classifiedwoman.com



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  3. #2
    True freedom means no borders.

    Some libertarians are willing to accept that borders are necessary when we have a welfare state to keep free loaders from coming just for the free stuff.

    There's not much point in fighting the collectivist argument of "Anti-Americanism". You might as well be trying to defend letting black people into an all white club.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  4. #3
    You've probably already made the point about welfare but its important to explain that welfare is the reason we have a problem with illegal immigration and w/o the freebies we WOULDNT have a large influx of free-loaders. On top of that you should make the point that local gov't has a responsibility to preserve english as the only language in _____ county and other reforms.

  5. #4
    In a truly capitalist system you would want as many people to come here and participate in the free market.

    Like opening up a market. It kinda sucks with 3 people standing around selling apples and oranges back and forth. It's much better with 100s of people selling and buying.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  6. #5
    Show them the facts. Ron Paul is not for open boarders. Not only does he say so, he votes so

    * If economy were good, there’d be no immigration problem. (Dec 2007)
    * Amend Constitution to remove aliens’ birthright citizenship. (Dec 2007)
    * Those who attack bilingualism are jealous & feel inferior. (Dec 2007)
    * No amnesty, but impractical to round up 12 million illegals. (Sep 2007)
    * Immigration problem is consequence of welfare state. (Sep 2007)
    * No amnesty, but border fence isn’t so important. (Jun 2007)
    * We subsidize illegal immigration, so we get more. (Jun 2007)
    * Keep rule barring immigrants from running for president. (May 2007)
    * End all incentives and amnesty for illegal immigrants. (Jan 2006)
    * Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
    * Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
    * Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
    * Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
    * Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
    * Sponsored bill banning student visas from terrorist nations. (Jan 2003)
    * Rated 100% by FAIR, indicating a voting record restricting immigration. (Dec 2003)
    * Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)
    * Government services in English only. (Mar 2008)
    * Declare English as the official language of the US. (Feb 2007)
    http://www.ontheissues.org/ron_paul.htm


    YouTube - Ron Paul on Illegal Immigration & Illegals Protest in the USA - Nation of Aztlan

  7. #6

    The Truth About Ron Paul

    CS WaKE, a Ron Paul Supporter and member of this site is putting an excellent Ron Paul library since the old one is gone.
    Find lots of statements on Ron Paul's views on border security at this link:
    http://www.ronpaularchive.com/catego...grationreform/

    Thanks CS...this is a good site to bookmark...awesome!!!!!!

  8. #7
    The bottom line is that many Republican voters are still wary of Ron Paul because they say he is a Libertarian and weak on illegal immigration. I've heard many of them say that they like Ron Paul's economic stance but would not vote for him because he's too radical on this issue and foreign policy.

    How would you defend Ron Paul to this guy's post:

    The reason why I do not support Ron Paul is because I believe that he is inadequate on our movements 2 primary goals: 1. Sealing the border and 2. Employing effective attrition through enforcement.

    Paul is a believer in the libertarian principles of free movement of people and capital across international boundaries (this applies to trade as well) and so is his son. Paul is against the border fence, against military on the border, and against employer sanctions.

    Libertarians do not believe that illegals will all leave if the bennys dry up. Libertarians do not care if they all stay so long as they are not receiving welfare. And far from wanting to deny illegals jobs, the LP is staunchly opposed to punishing employers of illegal aliens.

    http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-218855-25.html

    These issues need to be addressed if we are to be successful - assuming he runs in 2012.
    Paranoia is having all of the facts.
    www.classifiedwoman.com

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by romacox View Post
    CS WaKE, a Ron Paul Supporter and member of this site is putting an excellent Ron Paul library since the old one is gone.
    Find lots of statements on Ron Paul's views on border security at this link:
    http://www.ronpaularchive.com/catego...grationreform/

    Thanks CS...this is a good site to bookmark...awesome!!!!!!
    COOL!!! Thanks!
    Paranoia is having all of the facts.
    www.classifiedwoman.com



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  11. #9
    Easy solution,

    Remind these critics that Paul opposed the McCain amnesty then ask them if they voted for McCain.

    Then remind them that Paul opposed the Reagan amnesty then ask them if liked Reagan.

  12. #10
    Here are a couple of articles that might help.

    Ron Paul: “I Believe In National Sovereignty”.

    Please start by summarizing your position on immigration.

    Well, I start off with saying that it’s a big problem. I don’t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, but I do think it is a federal responsibility to protect our borders. This mess has come about for various reasons. One, the laws aren’t enforced. Another, the welfare state. We have a need for workers in this country because our welfare system literally encourages people not to work. Therefore, a lot of jobs go begging. This is an incentive for immigrants to come in and take those jobs.

    It is compounded because of federal mandates on the states to provide free medical care—that’s literally bankrupting the hospitals in Texas—and free education.

    So my main point is to get rid of incentives that cause people to break the law—entitlements as well as the promise of amnesty, citizenship.

    I also want to revisit the whole idea of birthright citizenship. I don’t think many countries have that. I don’t think it was the intention of the Fourteenth Amendment. I personally think it could be fixed by legislation. But some people argue otherwise, so I’ve covered myself by introducing a constitutional amendment.

    http://www.vdare.com/pb/070912_paul.htm
    Ron Paul On Immigration—The Good, The Bad, And The Idiosyncratic

    Ron Paul does not support open borders.

    http://vdare.com/epstein/080122_paul.htm
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwar View Post
    True freedom means no borders.
    That will help convince them.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Took me awhile to locate this thread again. Awesome info guys! Thanks!!
    Paranoia is having all of the facts.
    www.classifiedwoman.com



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