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Thread: Is College worth it?

  1. #1

    Is College worth it?

    I spent a lot of time in college....got my bachelor's in 6 years and my master's in 2.

    I also taught classes during grad school. My degrees are in a field most people call useless, and rightfully so: English. When it comes to contributing productively to an economy, an English degree does arguably less than all other degrees besides Education and Political Science (zing!).

    College is not worth it. Ever. In fact, the problem is in the question. Here's why:

    You know how people complain about academics? How it's all a bunch of useless 'mental masturbation?' It's where as you get more advanced degrees you know more about less?

    That's the way academia SHOULD be, but at the same time it should be treated as a luxury, not a necessity, or a right.

    The idea in America is that you're supposed to go to college so you can get a job, and this has created the cost/benefit analysis of college that should have never come about in the first place.

    So, the question 'is college worth it' is wrong if you look at it through an economic lens. The State, however has CREATED this phenomenon by requiring licenses and ridiculous amounts of semester hours to qualify for sitting for tests, etc.

    I couldn't get a job after my BA (surprise!) so I went back for my MA. What has changed? Absolutley nothing. Although I have teaching experience teaching college classes I am not qualified to teach at the high school level because I did not go through the Education Department at my University.

    My university has a strong background (it was initially a "Teacher's College") and supposedly one of the best Education Departments in the state, but after interacting with all the Education Majors there I was easily lead to the one conclusion: they are stupid.

    Anyway, I have a whole 'nother rant on that :/

    Back to the point is that college should be treated as a luxury only rich families can afford. Everything that 'prepares you for a job' should be a vocational/technical school. Then, the only departments that would exist at the University would be those like English...

    The business of academia is inventing theories about the world. That's it. Whether it be expressed through scientific formulae, art, literary theory or psychological theory, we might be better if, as a society, we separate this idea that college prepares you for a trade.

    A much better system would be apprenticeship, but the minimum wage has destroyed that.

    So college is never worth it if you're trying to get a monetary return on your investment, look elsewhere. Friends from high school who didn't go to college and went on to be plumbers and electricians can rightfully laugh at all my degrees and my lack of income.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    + rep.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  5. #4
    There are plenty of instances where highly qualified people do not get promotions/better jobs due solely to the fact they don't have a degree.

    It happens. It happens a lot. That's just the way the world works.

    You could argue to death that marketing (an example) is a $#@!ty system. Companies spend money to tell us all about their product and then pass on the cost to us. Every time Apple runs an ad for its iWhatever, the cost of that product goes up.

    But that's just the way the world works. Look at a degree like the packaging of a product. Often, the packaging, not the product, makes the sale.

    If you can get fancy packaging inexpensively, go for it! If you can't, well, there may be better alternatives. To say that a college degree never makes a good monetary investment is foolish. Quite a few people with a $20,000 investment in 4 years of a state school could get a promotion or a raise that would pay that off in a matter of a few years. That's a good return!

    I think the college system is pretty stupid. But other people don't. And if I'm looking for a job THEY, the other people that value a college education, have to give me one. I can at least understand that they have their own requirements for the job. If I don't meet their requirements, nothing else matters, does it?
    Last edited by Jordan; 10-07-2010 at 09:06 AM.

  6. #5
    Depends on the degree. Engineering works out well for most people. Business, accounting, and marketing degrees are usually a good idea. Some things require specialized academic training before you can do them productively. You just have to avoid the useless degrees. And not overpay for college.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Compy View Post
    When it comes to contributing productively to an economy, an English degree does arguably less than all other degrees besides Education and Political Science (zing!).
    What about Women's Studies and Philosophy? I think those are definitely the two most useless degrees.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    What about Women's Studies and Philosophy? I think those are definitely the two most useless degrees.
    Art History.


  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    What about Women's Studies and Philosophy? I think those are definitely the two most useless degrees.
    My sister got a degree in "Sports Management" with a concentration in "Leisure Studies". I think that takes the cake. She was unemployed for a year after graduation, and now works at a gym.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Compy View Post
    I spent a lot of time in college....got my bachelor's in 6 years and my master's in 2.
    Similar in my case. Seven undergrad (5 degrees) and 3 grad (2 degrees). Taught at CCNY for 4 years. It was fun.

    I also taught classes during grad school. My degrees are in a field most people call useless, and rightfully so: English.
    This is a very foolish statement. An English degree is not nearly useless. Understanding language in that particular way represents a body of knowledge that absolutely must be preserved if there is to be any hope that people will ever again be intelligent on the average. Language is the single most important non-reflex based activity that human beings have ever done and may ever do. Virtually NOTHING that we know would exist were it not for language, so you need to sit awhile in a dark room - have a beer (or whatever) and carefully think about your view on this. As it stands, it is completely loused up.

    That we as a nation place such low value on such abilities is conclusive proof of just how stupid we are on the whole. Language and its use creates our world in-toto. Without language we would not survive past infancy.

    Worthless? How about you make it valuable? Don't be a lamer - be bold, creative.


    When it comes to contributing productively to an economy, an English degree does arguably less than all other degrees besides Education and Political Science (zing!).
    Not the fault of the degree or the body of knowledge it represents.

    College is not worth it. Ever. In fact, the problem is in the question. Here's why:
    I strongly disagree. College is great for certain purposes and people. It is not right for all. I would say it may even not be right for most of the people attending, but your broad statement fails tremendously. I had a great time in college and I learned a lot. I majored in engineering, math, physics, computer science, education, and then got my MBA. The environment was absolutely perfect for me. QED.

    You know how people complain about academics? How it's all a bunch of useless 'mental masturbation?' It's where as you get more advanced degrees you know more about less?
    Which is nonsense.

    That's the way academia SHOULD be, but at the same time it should be treated as a luxury, not a necessity, or a right.
    We agree, mostly. It is a right insifar as one has the right to attend if they have the means to - both academically and materially. The do not, however have the right to be provided with a college education, or any other for that matter.

    The idea in America is that you're supposed to go to college so you can get a job,
    That is what it has become, but that was not the reason I went.


    [snipped a bunch of silly "should" commandments]

    The business of academia is inventing theories about the world. That's it. Whether it be expressed through scientific formulae, art, literary theory or psychological theory, we might be better if, as a society, we separate this idea that college prepares you for a trade.
    This is nonsense. The business of academia is LEARNING - or ought to be. Many such institutions have put learning on the back burner.

    A much better system would be apprenticeship, but the minimum wage has destroyed that.
    Better for what? NOthing wrong with apprenticeship, per se, but I am not convinced it is the answer for all people.

    So college is never worth it if you're trying to get a monetary return on your investment, look elsewhere. Friends from high school who didn't go to college and went on to be plumbers and electricians can rightfully laugh at all my degrees and my lack of income.
    Again I cannot agree. My education cost perhaps $20K, not including the $90K I spent on the MBA. During my money making days, I pulled down perhaps $5 million over 15 years. I'd call that a pretty good ROI.

    The point here is that everyone is different. Your assertions are certainly true for some, but just as certainly they are not for others. I agree with you that apprenticeships is a good system - it worked for millennia and the world got along fine. It was disposed of and now look at the shape in which we find ourselves. But the colleges (some of them anyhow) offer value as well for some, and that should not be discounted.
    Last edited by osan; 10-07-2010 at 10:52 AM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

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  12. #10
    ..
    Last edited by specsaregood; 05-17-2016 at 10:06 AM.

  13. #11
    I believe in our current system, attending college can be very useful. You won't learn much and won't be very productive in your field until you've actually worked in the field for a few years but the piece of paper is seen as valuable to employers. I have always wondered why it is deemed so valuable. Some employers don't even care what the degree is in. They just want someone with a degree.

    The apprenticeship idea is wonderful for most technical fields(engineering, computer science, etc) and business fields. I believe you would learn much more doing an apprenticeship for four years rather than attending classes.

  14. #12
    My aunt got her Bachelors in Psychology from Yale and ended up working as a waitress at IHOP. You'd think having any degree from Yale would be impressive enough in itself to get a good job anywhere, but I guess not. A Bachelors in Psychology is totally worthless unless you go to grad school to become a Psychologist or something. Same with my best friend. She got her BA in Psychology and works as a waitress now. But she is planning on going for her PhD eventually.
    Last edited by Natalie; 10-07-2010 at 01:14 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Compy View Post
    Friends from high school who didn't go to college and went on to be plumbers and electricians can rightfully laugh at all my degrees and my lack of income.
    Not everyone wishes to be electricians or plumbers. I'm terrible with my hands. I couldn't do anything in a career involving a skilled trade.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan710 View Post
    I believe in our current system, attending college can be very useful. You won't learn much and won't be very productive in your field until you've actually worked in the field for a few years but the piece of paper is seen as valuable to employers. I have always wondered why it is deemed so valuable. Some employers don't even care what the degree is in. They just want someone with a degree.

    The apprenticeship idea is wonderful for most technical fields(engineering, computer science, etc) and business fields. I believe you would learn much more doing an apprenticeship for four years rather than attending classes.
    Because the law forbids employers from testing intelligence. The degree requirement is how the market got around that stupid law, even though it vastly narrowed the pool of possible employees who would otherwise be qualified. Your government at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Art History.
    You've obviously never seen White Collar
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    What about Women's Studies and Philosophy? I think those are definitely the two most useless degrees.
    My wife graduated summa cum laude with an English degree and a minor in Women's Studies. She stays home and takes care of the house and the kids. The sad thing is that if she had had Physics in high school she would probably be an astonomer. She took a physics class after she graduated and she loved it and was good at it. She just didn't have the confidence going into college to go for it when she came out of high school.

    And then I probably wouldn't have accused her of being a man hating lesbian the night we met and we wouldn't be married with two smart, beautiful children.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    My aunt got her Bachelors in Psychology from Yale and ended up working as a waitress at IHOP. You'd think having any degree from Yale would be impressive enough in itself to get a good job anywhere, but I guess not. A Bachelors in Psychology is totally worthless unless you go to grad school to become a Psychologist or something. Same with my best friend. She got her BA in Psychology and works as a waitress now. But she is planning on going for her PhD eventually.
    What is it with women and psyche degrees? If a woman told me she had any sort of psyche degree she would immediately be undatable <sp?>. I have so many issues her head would explode.

  21. #18
    For actually being a psychologist, a doctorate is minimally required. There is so much competition in that field, it's insane.

    I agree with Osan for the most part. The OP stating college is Good for nothing all the time is false. Some of us have 5-figure scholarships and are paying virtually nothing for college. It would be pointless for me to skip it when I can get my degree for maybe $20,000 with no debt. A Master's for around $8,000 more.

  22. #19
    The knowledge or the information itself is neither good or bad. The way in which it is acquired, and then measured, is a problem.

    The money required for a college education outweighs its benefits. And the funny thing is that having some guy stand up in front of a hundred people and read a book to them would be a lot cheaper if people just read the books themselves. Oooh, I have a new scam idea! I could charge my kids $100 bucks for reading them Dr. Seuss books while I put them to bed!
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  23. #20
    It depends on the degree you get.

    Try getting into lucrative fields like engineering, science, medicine, etc without a degree. It ain't going to happen. The degree(s) are an absolute necessity.

    That's not to say that there aren't a lot of worthless or nearly worthless degrees out there. You know the kind- where having the degree and the ability to say "Want fries with that?" or "Welcome to Walmart" will guarantee you a career.

    Spend 4-6 years drinking beer and tossing a frisbee while getting your degree in Women's studies, Art History, English, African Studies, Music or any other BS (I mean Bull $#@!, not Baccalaureate of Science) degree and you are likely to find yourself un- or under- employed (and yes, I know, someone is going to say "well, I have a friend with a degree in Art History, and he makes great money as the curator at the Louvre).

    There are plenty of degrees that are worth the money (and btw, it helps if you get the degree in 4 years- every year you fart around in college is not only more tuition money wasted, it's another year of lost income).

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian4321 View Post
    It depends on the degree you get.

    Try getting into lucrative fields like engineering, science, medicine, etc without a degree. It ain't going to happen. The degree(s) are an absolute necessity.


    That's not to say that there aren't a lot of worthless or nearly worthless degrees out there. You know the kind- where having the degree and the ability to say "Want fries with that?" or "Welcome to Walmart" will guarantee you a career.

    Spend 4-6 years drinking beer and tossing a frisbee while getting your degree in Women's studies, Art History, English, African Studies, Music or any other BS (I mean Bull $#@!, not Baccalaureate of Science) degree and you are likely to find yourself un- or under- employed (and yes, I know, someone is going to say "well, I have a friend with a degree in Art History, and he makes great money as the curator at the Louvre).

    There are plenty of degrees that are worth the money (and btw, it helps if you get the degree in 4 years- every year you fart around in college is not only more tuition money wasted, it's another year of lost income).
    There are VocTech schools that teach these kinds of subjects (such as ITT Tech). So yes, you can get into these sort of fields without a 4 year degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    There are VocTech schools that teach these kinds of subjects (such as ITT Tech). So yes, you can get into these sort of fields without a 4 year degree.
    The degree's one get's from places like ITT are technician's degrees, that isn't the same as an engineering degree. They are usually 2-year associates degree programs.

    If a place like ITT (or similar) did start offering 4-year engineering degrees, my guess is that their graduates would have a very tough time finding employment.

    Just went to the ITT we site, and the closest thing they have to anything in engineering is a 2-year degree in "Computer and Electronics Engineering Technology."

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    There are VocTech schools that teach these kinds of subjects (such as ITT Tech). So yes, you can get into these sort of fields without a 4 year degree.
    The degree's one get's from places like ITT are technician's degrees. They are 2-year associates degree programs that teach very basic information. It's not the same as a real engineering degree.

    It's roughly the equivalent of teaching someone to be a licensed practical nurse rather than a registered nurse- a huge difference in education and a large difference in pay.

    If a place like ITT (or similar) did start offering 4-year engineering degrees, my guess is that their graduates would have a very tough time finding employment.

    Just went to the ITT we site, and the closest thing they have to anything in engineering is a 2-year degree in "Computer and Electronics Engineering Technology."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian4321 View Post
    The degree's one get's from places like ITT are technician's degrees. They are 2-year associates degree programs that teach very basic information. It's not the same as a real engineering degree.

    It's roughly the equivalent of teaching someone to be a licensed practical nurse rather than a registered nurse- a huge difference in education and a large difference in pay.

    If a place like ITT (or similar) did start offering 4-year engineering degrees, my guess is that their graduates would have a very tough time finding employment.

    Just went to the ITT we site, and the closest thing they have to anything in engineering is a 2-year degree in "Computer and Electronics Engineering Technology."
    Srsly? Strange. I don't know much about that field, but in graphic design, one can get a degree from a place like Art Institute and have as much success or more than someone who goes to a 4 year school. There are some things that universities are good for (education degrees, for example), but not everything-and certainly not as many things as commonly claimed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #25
    I'm going into History, teaching of history to be exact. Is this a useless degree?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CroSpartacus View Post
    I'm going into History, teaching of history to be exact. Is this a useless degree?
    Of course

    Just find a school that allows you to teach real history.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CroSpartacus View Post
    I'm going into History, teaching of history to be exact. Is this a useless degree?
    I suppose you could become a famous revisionist historian like Tom Woods. ~shrugs~
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Srsly? Strange. I don't know much about that field, but in graphic design, one can get a degree from a place like Art Institute and have as much success or more than someone who goes to a 4 year school. There are some things that universities are good for (education degrees, for example), but not everything-and certainly not as many things as commonly claimed.
    Yes, ITT Tech cannot provide anything even close to a real engineering degree.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    Yes, ITT Tech cannot provide anything even close to a real engineering degree.
    Right.

    Not that the ITT degree is totally worthless, it's far better than nothing, but it's essentially a community college degree. Won't help you at all if you want a job in engineering.

    A BS from a reputable school is the minimum for engineering, and those that are serious about the technical aspects of engineering probably should get an advanced degree, or an MBA type degree to move into management as their career progresses.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I suppose you could become a famous revisionist historian like Tom Woods. ~shrugs~
    Not familiar with his work. In what ways does he transgress?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

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