Today I put my life on the line for liberty...

[RideTheDirt]

Great Job man.

[Madly_Sane]

I would've called them nazis, its just in my nature
But other than that, well done, sir.

[AGRP]

No video footage?

[MyLibertyStuff]

Today my g/f and I decided to take a day off from college and go on a trip out to the local desert.

Once over the mountains and into the desert floor I headed north to show my g/f some awesome mud caverns that I had been to as a little kid many years ago.

We are now in the middle of nowhere. I think we passed maybe 3 cars during the entire 5 hours we spent in the desert.

We are driving along enjoying the sights looking for the cross road we need to find when all of a sudden there is a sudden homeland security (border patrol) check point in the middle of the 2 lane road.

There are cones and official vehicles directing any passing drivers into the shoulder where there is a movable STOP sign.

I slow and drive up...

Agent: "Are you a US citizen?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "Where are you coming from?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "Where are you traveling to?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "You have to answer my questions!"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States."

Agent: "Pull over to the side here and turn off your vehicle"

Me: "Am I being detained?"

Agent: "Yes".

*I pull to the side and turn off the vehicle and lock the doors and leave the window down apx 4 inches*

Agent: "You're going to sit here until you answer my questions"

Me : "I would like to speak to your supervisor"

Agent: "Oh, a supervisor huh... (nodding head and gesturing in a confrontational manner) *he then walks over and gets the supervisor*

Supervisor: "Why won't you answer the questions? It's not a big deal..."

Me: "I understand that you're just trying to do your job, however under the 5th amendment of the constitution I will not be answering any questions"

Supervisor: "You have to state citizenship status at checkpoints like these under immigration law"

Me: "I understand that there might be a law that states that, however I feel that the constitution is the supreme law of this country and I believe that my ability to remain silent trumps this immigration law you are citing".

Supervisor: "Well that's nice but you're not free to leave until you answer our questions"

Me: "How long can you detain me?"

Supervisor: "We will detain you here until you answer our questions".

Me: "At what phone number can I reach your supervisor?"

*He gave me the phone number and I called*

Dispatch transferred me to a supervisor and I explained the situation, the phone supervisor told me that I was required by law to state my citizenship status and then told me that I needed to deal with the supervisor that was at the checkpoint and then got off the phone with me.

~~

We proceeded to sit in the car discussing our options for apx 30 mins, I was figuring that there was a legal amount of time in which they could "detain" me before making the decision to either arrest me or let me go.

During this time, my g/f and I listened to their conversations from a distance.

We heard them mocking us and saying things like "what a douchebag" "what does this guy think he is accomplishing?" laughing, also saying to my face that quote "we don't care, we are getting paid to stand here anyway".

I overheard one agent say that "well if we decide to arrest him and he resists we can LIGHT HIM UP"

Another thing we overheard was a younger agent saw my bumper sticker



and using his personal cell phone he called someone and asked them to look up what prop 19 was...

I also have a Gadsden flag "don't tread on me" sticker on the back as well.

~~

The agent then asked me for my ID which I of course refused.

I asked if I was suspected of committing any crimes and was told "no".

Eventually after about an hour of sitting in the sun I called the dispatch back again and asked to speak to that supervisor again and when I got her I asked to speak to her supervisor.

This guy was actually polite and sounded like he knew what he was talking about... I told him that there was no way they could detain me indefinitely and that I would be calling 911 and telling the state police and local sheriff dept. that I was being held against my will.

He responded by stating that the CHP (CA state police) was already en route.

He also clarified that I was not being "detained indefinitely" and that I was being detained until the CHP officer arrived.

I asked how long can I legally be detained? and the response was that there is no set amount of time and that it is defined as a "reasonable amount of time".

After about another 45 mins - an hour goes by, the CHP officer arrives...

I greet him warmly and shake his hand through the window and ask if I can speak to him away from the gaggle of 4-6 agents that were sorrounding my vehicle with hands on their pistols and one clutching a shotgun.

He agrees and I exit the vehicle and we walk about 35 feet just out of earshot of the agents and I explain to him that I am not trying to cause problems and I apologize that he had to be called way out here to deal with this but that these agents were demanding that I answer their questions and that I was declining to do so under the 5th amendment.

He seemed agreeable from the start and asked if he could run my license to make sure it was valid, now.... at this point I realized that if I had wanted to take this even further I likely could have argued that he had to legal reason to run my license since I had not done anything wrong... However... we had now been sitting in the sun roasting for 2 full hours...

I let him run my license under the condition that he was not to share my information with any of the agents under any circumstance. He agreed and over his radio had dispatch check the license number and there were no problems. He stated that he didn't see any problems or any reason for him to bother me any further. He walked over to the agents outside my vehicle and I got back into the drivers seat.

He explained to the agents that my license was valid and that he had no probable cause to suspect that I had done anything wrong in any way and that if I wanted to exercise my rights under the 5th amendment that that was my choice. He said to them that it was their call if they wanted to arrest me under any federal statues but that he would not be assisting or having anything to do with it.

The agents looked like someone had just told them their dog had died, it was disturbing... they all clamoured to ask if I had any warrants or any other "issues"... and the officer said no.

I then asked directly to the supervisor if I was free to go and he said yes.

I then started my engine and left...

As a very nice side note, when we got to where we were going I started chatting with the park ranger and ended up having a solid 45 min conversation with him about the incident, politics, etc and he was a vietnam vet that was now a libertarian and he shook my hand and told me that he was proud that there are young people still willing to fight for what's right.

~~

Things I think I did well...

Stayed calm.

Contacted superiors and made ultimatum to call sheriff and chp

Refused to answer any questions.

Did not give any personal information to any federal agents.

Held my ground in polite and non-image damaging fashion (ie: wasn't calling them nazi's etc...

Things I could do better...

Video tape instead of pictures (I will be buying a video camera to keep in the car tomorrow)

Have the local sheriff dept's phone number ready to go in my phone should it happen again.



Thoughts/comments?

I can honestly say that I was scared. They were trying their hardest to intimidate me, aggressive postures, guns at the ready, talking about looking forward to the possibility of tazering me, the fact that this checkpoint was mobile and likely had no cameras recording, there was almost no other traffic passing through either.

I was alone.

Congrats! I honestly dont know if I could do that out in the middle of the desert, but I would guess no...

[Reason]

Congrats! I honestly dont know if I could do that out in the middle of the desert, but I would guess no...

20/20 Hindsight, I don't know if this was the greatest place to draw the line but it was a split second decision that I was forced to make when confronted with the initial agent who came across as hostile from the very beginning.

[Anti Federalist]

20/20 Hindsight, I don't know if this was the greatest place to draw the line but it was a split second decision that I was forced to make when confronted with the initial agent who came across as hostile from the very beginning.

No need to second guess yourself.

That's the nature of this beast we're fighting, split second decisions are required.

Ya' did just fine.

[jmdrake]

Today my g/f and I decided to take a day off from college and go on a trip out to the local desert.

Once over the mountains and into the desert floor I headed north to show my g/f some awesome mud caverns that I had been to as a little kid many years ago.

We are now in the middle of nowhere. I think we passed maybe 3 cars during the entire 5 hours we spent in the desert.

We are driving along enjoying the sights looking for the cross road we need to find when all of a sudden there is a sudden homeland security (border patrol) check point in the middle of the 2 lane road.

There are cones and official vehicles directing any passing drivers into the shoulder where there is a movable STOP sign.

I slow and drive up...

Agent: "Are you a US citizen?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "Where are you coming from?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "Where are you traveling to?"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

Agent: "You have to answer my questions!"

Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States."

Agent: "Pull over to the side here and turn off your vehicle"

Me: "Am I being detained?"

Agent: "Yes".

*I pull to the side and turn off the vehicle and lock the doors and leave the window down apx 4 inches*

Agent: "You're going to sit here until you answer my questions"

Me : "I would like to speak to your supervisor"

Agent: "Oh, a supervisor huh... (nodding head and gesturing in a confrontational manner) *he then walks over and gets the supervisor*

Supervisor: "Why won't you answer the questions? It's not a big deal..."

Me: "I understand that you're just trying to do your job, however under the 5th amendment of the constitution I will not be answering any questions"

Supervisor: "You have to state citizenship status at checkpoints like these under immigration law"

Me: "I understand that there might be a law that states that, however I feel that the constitution is the supreme law of this country and I believe that my ability to remain silent trumps this immigration law you are citing".

Supervisor: "Well that's nice but you're not free to leave until you answer our questions"

Me: "How long can you detain me?"

Supervisor: "We will detain you here until you answer our questions".

Me: "At what phone number can I reach your supervisor?"

*He gave me the phone number and I called*

Dispatch transferred me to a supervisor and I explained the situation, the phone supervisor told me that I was required by law to state my citizenship status and then told me that I needed to deal with the supervisor that was at the checkpoint and then got off the phone with me.

~~

We proceeded to sit in the car discussing our options for apx 30 mins, I was figuring that there was a legal amount of time in which they could "detain" me before making the decision to either arrest me or let me go.

During this time, my g/f and I listened to their conversations from a distance.

We heard them mocking us and saying things like "what a douchebag" "what does this guy think he is accomplishing?" laughing, also saying to my face that quote "we don't care, we are getting paid to stand here anyway".

I overheard one agent say that "well if we decide to arrest him and he resists we can LIGHT HIM UP"

Another thing we overheard was a younger agent saw my bumper sticker



and using his personal cell phone he called someone and asked them to look up what prop 19 was...

I also have a Gadsden flag "don't tread on me" sticker on the back as well.

~~

The agent then asked me for my ID which I of course refused.

I asked if I was suspected of committing any crimes and was told "no".

Eventually after about an hour of sitting in the sun I called the dispatch back again and asked to speak to that supervisor again and when I got her I asked to speak to her supervisor.

This guy was actually polite and sounded like he knew what he was talking about... I told him that there was no way they could detain me indefinitely and that I would be calling 911 and telling the state police and local sheriff dept. that I was being held against my will.

He responded by stating that the CHP (CA state police) was already en route.

He also clarified that I was not being "detained indefinitely" and that I was being detained until the CHP officer arrived.

I asked how long can I legally be detained? and the response was that there is no set amount of time and that it is defined as a "reasonable amount of time".

After about another 45 mins - an hour goes by, the CHP officer arrives...

I greet him warmly and shake his hand through the window and ask if I can speak to him away from the gaggle of 4-6 agents that were sorrounding my vehicle with hands on their pistols and one clutching a shotgun.

He agrees and I exit the vehicle and we walk about 35 feet just out of earshot of the agents and I explain to him that I am not trying to cause problems and I apologize that he had to be called way out here to deal with this but that these agents were demanding that I answer their questions and that I was declining to do so under the 5th amendment.

He seemed agreeable from the start and asked if he could run my license to make sure it was valid, now.... at this point I realized that if I had wanted to take this even further I likely could have argued that he had to legal reason to run my license since I had not done anything wrong... However... we had now been sitting in the sun roasting for 2 full hours...

I let him run my license under the condition that he was not to share my information with any of the agents under any circumstance. He agreed and over his radio had dispatch check the license number and there were no problems. He stated that he didn't see any problems or any reason for him to bother me any further. He walked over to the agents outside my vehicle and I got back into the drivers seat.

He explained to the agents that my license was valid and that he had no probable cause to suspect that I had done anything wrong in any way and that if I wanted to exercise my rights under the 5th amendment that that was my choice. He said to them that it was their call if they wanted to arrest me under any federal statues but that he would not be assisting or having anything to do with it.

The agents looked like someone had just told them their dog had died, it was disturbing... they all clamoured to ask if I had any warrants or any other "issues"... and the officer said no.

I then asked directly to the supervisor if I was free to go and he said yes.

I then started my engine and left...

As a very nice side note, when we got to where we were going I started chatting with the park ranger and ended up having a solid 45 min conversation with him about the incident, politics, etc and he was a vietnam vet that was now a libertarian and he shook my hand and told me that he was proud that there are young people still willing to fight for what's right.

~~

Things I think I did well...

Stayed calm.

Contacted superiors and made ultimatum to call sheriff and chp

Refused to answer any questions.

Did not give any personal information to any federal agents.

Held my ground in polite and non-image damaging fashion (ie: wasn't calling them nazi's etc...

Things I could do better...

Video tape instead of pictures (I will be buying a video camera to keep in the car tomorrow)

Have the local sheriff dept's phone number ready to go in my phone should it happen again.



Thoughts/comments?

I can honestly say that I was scared. They were trying their hardest to intimidate me, aggressive postures, guns at the ready, talking about looking forward to the possibility of tazering me, the fact that this checkpoint was mobile and likely had no cameras recording, there was almost no other traffic passing through either.

I was alone.

[Reason]

Considering attending CPAC in a few months, will make sure to bring my video camera for my travels =D

[Lucille]

This thread was just blogged by Matt Welch at Hit & Run.

Read all about it at ronpaulforums.com. My favorite part (besides the sheer righteous, time-wasting ballsiness of standing up to The Man)

[puppetmaster]

good!