Do precious metals dealers report our transactions?

[Brassmouth]

Does anyone know if online coin and bullion companies such as APMEX, MONEX, EuroPac Precious Metals, etc. are required to report their customers' transactions to any government agency, or any of the other "bad guys?"

Please provide any details you may know. I've heard that some new regulations concerning purchases of coins and bullion have been passed recently. Thanks.

[forsmant]

Depends on the dealer and the medium of exchange.

[Brassmouth]

Depends on the dealer and the medium of exchange.

Could you elaborate? Say I wanted to purchase some gold coins from APMEX with a credit card. Would that transaction be reported to anyone?

[forsmant]

that transaction has lots of history to it. Use cash at your local dealer and no one knows a thing

[LibForestPaul]

Confidentiality
We keep all transactions confidential, and do not report to any third parties, except to satisfy government cash-reporting requirements for dealers under federal regulations.
We pride ourselves on reputable service and our integrity in the marketplace. We have no hidden charges or fees and we would like to be your bullion dealer in the future, and work hard to make that happen.

So a cash will, but not credit

Aren't transactions of $10,000 or more reported to the government? Only if they involve actual currency, i.e., a suitcase full of $100 bills, or cash instruments such as multiple cashiers checks which are smaller than $10,000 each but total over $10,000. There is no report, or registration, or any such paperwork on transactions involving single checks or bankwires of whatever size. Currency regulations involving amounts of over $10,000 were designed to thwart money launderers and drug dealers. This is a common area of misunderstanding, but the bottom line is that there is no report made on ordinary transactions of any size, paid with a check or bankwire

NOTE:The IRS has revised its cash reporting form. The new form is similar to the old form except for the addition of the designation as "FinCEN Form 8300". As part of federal anti-terrorism initiatives, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), in addition to the IRS, is notified of cash payments of over $10,000 in a single transaction. The revised form satisfies dealer cash reporting requirements under the recent USA Patriot Act. Please see link above FAQs: IRS
http://www.fincen.gov/

On February 10, 2010, FinCEN’s final rule (“Final Rule”) expanding the section 314(a) information sharing program adopted pursuant to the Bank Secrecy Act (“BSA”) was published in the Federal Register and became immediately effective. The Final Rule allows access by certain foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as state and local law enforcement agencies,

[WaltM]

it's hard for them to report it if you pay in cash.

if you buy them on eBay, the payment record is saved, but regardless.

proof you bought something, is not proof you still have it.

the other side of the coin (no pun intended) is, if you sell bullion, its said to generate a 1099 (this is a rumor i heard from a dealer, treat it as such)

[fj45lvr]

even if there is a reporting requirement now or one coming in future...doesn't mean that ALL dealers will abide by the requirement....I have a strong feeling many of them despise the Government more than most people.

[Seraphim]

I pay in cash to a local dealer- I don't worry about it.

=)

[IPSecure]

If you sell your gold, it is reported to the police in Milwaukee...

In July, the Milwaukee Common Council voted to require all gold-buying shops to electronically submit the seller's name and photo to police, along with a photo of the items sold. Last fall, Maryland passed a similar measure and on Oct. 1 will require buyers to have a fixed location. Last year, Florida started requiring mail-in gold-buying companies to put sales information on a database accessible to law enforcement.

Link

[Bern]

Previous thread on this subject: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=242865

[Slutter McGee]

So a cash will, but not credit

Aren't transactions of $10,000 or more reported to the government? Only if they involve actual currency, i.e., a suitcase full of $100 bills, or cash instruments such as multiple cashiers checks which are smaller than $10,000 each but total over $10,000. There is no report, or registration, or any such paperwork on transactions involving single checks or bankwires of whatever size. Currency regulations involving amounts of over $10,000 were designed to thwart money launderers and drug dealers. This is a common area of misunderstanding, but the bottom line is that there is no report made on ordinary transactions of any size, paid with a check or bankwire

NOTE:The IRS has revised its cash reporting form. The new form is similar to the old form except for the addition of the designation as "FinCEN Form 8300". As part of federal anti-terrorism initiatives, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), in addition to the IRS, is notified of cash payments of over $10,000 in a single transaction. The revised form satisfies dealer cash reporting requirements under the recent USA Patriot Act. Please see link above FAQs: IRS
http://www.fincen.gov/

On February 10, 2010, FinCEN’s final rule (“Final Rule”) expanding the section 314(a) information sharing program adopted pursuant to the Bank Secrecy Act (“BSA”) was published in the Federal Register and became immediately effective. The Final Rule allows access by certain foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as state and local law enforcement agencies,

No. Financial institutions have to report cash transactions of 10,000.01 and more. Most businesses that are cash intensive are exempt from this reporting.

Slutter McGee

[Bern]

Slutter - where do you get your info from?

...
If payment is made by cash greater than $10,000, however, it becomes a "cash reporting transaction." It is not the gold that the government wants reported but the cash. Such reporting applies to all business transactions involving more than $10,000 cash.

Regarding cash transactions, Official General Instructions for IRS Form 8300 read: "Who Must File. - Each person engaged in a trade or business who, during that trade or business, receives more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction or two or more related transactions must file Form 8300. Any transactions conducted between a payer (or its agent) and the recipient in a 24-hour period are related transactions.

This regulation applies to cash - greenbacks, paper money. It does not apply to personal checks, wire transfers, or money market withdrawals. When cashier's checks or money orders are involved, cash reporting may be triggered.

Form 8300's General Instructions define as cash "a cashier's check, bank draft, traveler's check, or money order having a face amount of not more than $10,000." Using a cashier's check less than $10,000 would be a "cash transaction," but it would not be reportable because it is less than $10,000. However, two cashier's checks, each less than $10,000 but totaling more than $10,000 for a single purchase, would be considered cash and subject to reporting.

Further clarification: If an investor makes a $15,000 investment in gold and pays with a single $15,000 cashier's check, it is not reportable. If, however, he pays with two or more cashier's checks each less than $10,000, the dealer would be obligated to report.

Cash reporting requirements were not written specifically for the precious metals industry but for all businesses. The purchase of a car, boat, or jewelry, and payment with two cashier's checks, each less than $10,000 but totaling more than $10,000, would be a reportable transaction.

Another example: an investor agrees to buy precious metals totaling more than $10,000, again say $15,000, and wants to make payments with money from two accounts. If the investor withdraws $8,000 from the first account and gets a cashier's check, and then gets another cashier's check for $7,000 from the second account, the transaction becomes reportable. A purchase of $30,000 and payment with two $15,000 cashier's checks would not be a reportable transaction. The significant amount is $10,000.

Personal checks or checks drawn on the payer's own account are not considered cash. Form 8300's General Instructions read: "Cash does not included a check drawn on the payer's own account, such as a personal check, regardless of the amount."
...

http://www.certifiedmint.com/myths_lies.htm

(from the thread I linked earlier)

[Slutter McGee]

Slutter - where do you get your info from?



http://www.certifiedmint.com/myths_lies.htm

(from the thread I linked earlier)

It actually looks like you are right. Did a little more research. Looks like it is a seperate regulation and reporting than cash transactions at financial institutions.

Slutter McGee

[Rampart]

Best bet is to find reputable dealers (local and online) and spread out your purchases between them - keep your purchases under 10k for the year with each dealer. Because of money laundering and fraud concerns, many online dealers will not even touch a credit card order over 5k. Be patient - buy slowly.

As for reporting - an evil new law that was written into the health care bill will require reporting of all transactions in excess of $600. This will be a nightmare for dealers and buyers alike. It is the end of freely held metal.

The law kicks in 2012... so build up your core position now. Read about the new law here http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCdd.php?id=478

Good luck to all.