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Thread: A question about water filter ionizers...

  1. #1

    A question about water filter ionizers...

    My aunt wants my mom to buy a water filter ionizer. The Company brand is Enagic USA, Inc. and they manufacture Kangen water. Has anybody used these devices or this particular brand? I am very skeptical because the company is a multi-level. What did you think? They make some pretty incredible health claims and the machines are expensive.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth



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  3. #2
    The only true pure water is distilled. Other than that, I would only own a Berky water machine.

  4. #3
    Just google "Kangen water scam" and you'll have quite a dearth of information. Reverse osmosis is one of the best ways to filter water, and it's been around for quite a while.

    Distilled water is purer, but it tastes a bit funny.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Reverse osmosis is one of the best ways to filter water, and it's been around for quite a while.
    There's also forward osmosis. No moving parts: www.htiwater.com

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Just google "Kangen water scam" and you'll have quite a dearth of information. Reverse osmosis is one of the best ways to filter water, and it's been around for quite a while.

    Distilled water is purer, but it tastes a bit funny.
    if RO works so well, why can't we do it with sea water?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltM View Post
    if RO works so well, why can't we do it with sea water?
    It's done all the time, walt, but it's energy intensive so it's only practical in places where fresh water is scarce and thus expensive. RO membranes can reject salts, sugars and minerals but that requires pretty high pressures (2000 psig or more). The units designed to produce potable water aren't so tight as to reject all molecules larger than h2o as it would be unsafe to drink...i.e. draw necessary minerals from your body.
    Last edited by Old Ducker; 08-28-2010 at 09:34 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ducker View Post
    There's also forward osmosis. No moving parts: www.htiwater.com
    I couldn't find anything other than industrial applications. Any personal/residential products from them?
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltM View Post
    if RO works so well, why can't we do it with sea water?
    You can. Too spendy for large applications though.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by roho76 View Post
    I couldn't find anything other than industrial applications. Any personal/residential products from them?
    yes but its mainly for emergency use as it requires an osmotic agent, either a salt or sugar solution to generate an osmotic differential pressure across the membrane. The industrial applications utilize some method to concentrate the osmotic agent such as RO or solar evaporation.
    Last edited by Old Ducker; 08-28-2010 at 11:48 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltM View Post
    if RO works so well, why can't we do it with sea water?
    Drinking coffee made with RO/seawater right now.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  13. #11
    you have to understand what a water ionizer is.. its not about filtration at all.. though it does do this..


    water ionizer use electrolysis to separate the water into two separate streams, one being acidic and one being alkaline..


    this is mainly useful because modern diets are quite acid producing inside the body, and also much of the water that is consumed is acidic as well..

    we have one of these in our home.. but do not buy a kangan, they overcharge and are douchebags.. I know someone who sells for them.. total $#@!.

    we have a Jupiter..


    http://www.amazon.com/Jupiter-Orion-...sr=8-1-catcorr

    Jupiter Science was started by employees of kangan water who did not want to extort their customers.. its 1800$ intead of like $4000 for the kangan..

    whether this is right for you has alot to do with your diet, your bloodtype, and the Ph of the water that you drink..

    our well water is 6 on the Ph scale so thats pretty acidic.. we make our water around 7-7.5 with this device..

    it has greatly improved my parents health and mine in a number of ways including sleeping better, no more heartburn, much better digestion, and more energy..

    it may not be right for everybody but its worth a look.
    Last edited by Kotin; 08-29-2010 at 12:06 AM.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Drinking coffee made with RO/seawater right now.
    are you on the graveyard shift?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ducker View Post
    are you on the graveyard shift?
    He roves around Walmart parking lots late at night. Needs to be alert. He misses whale spotting between voyages.
    Last edited by Danke; 08-29-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotin View Post
    you have to understand what a water ionizer is.. its not about filtration at all.. though it does do this..


    water ionizer use electrolysis to separate the water into two separate streams, one being acidic and one being alkaline..


    this is mainly useful because modern diets are quite acid producing inside the body, and also much of the water that is consumed is acidic as well..

    we have one of these in our home.. but do not buy a kangan, they overcharge and are douchebags.. I know someone who sells for them.. total $#@!.

    we have a Jupiter..


    http://www.amazon.com/Jupiter-Orion-...sr=8-1-catcorr

    Jupiter Science was started by employees of kangan water who did not want to extort their customers.. its 1800$ intead of like $4000 for the kangan..

    whether this is right for you has alot to do with your diet, your bloodtype, and the Ph of the water that you drink..

    our well water is 6 on the Ph scale so thats pretty acidic.. we make our water around 7-7.5 with this device..

    it has greatly improved my parents health and mine in a number of ways including sleeping better, no more heartburn, much better digestion, and more energy..

    it may not be right for everybody but its worth a look.
    Thanks, Kotin. That is very interesting and helpful. Like you say, the focus is on the water being more alkaline, and that is the key. What I don't understand, and maybe you know the answer, is why can't someone just put baking soda in RO water and get the desired effect of higher alkaline content in their water? Is electrolysis critical in producing the water?

    Also, my mom gave me Kangen water that was 9.5 Ph. Can you set the Jupiter system to go that high or even higher? Can your Jupiter system make acidic water? The lady gave my mom acidic water that has a real low Ph (I think 2.5) and it is supposed to kill any bacteria in 10 seconds. I told my mom "Why don't I buy you some swimming pool acid and we can put it in the RO water!" She told me: "Because we don't own a swimming pool!"

    That Jupiter system looks really kool!!
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    Thanks, Kotin. That is very interesting and helpful. Like you say, the focus is on the water being more alkaline, and that is the key. What I don't understand, and maybe you know the answer, is why can't someone just put baking soda in RO water and get the desired effect of higher alkaline content in their water? Is electrolysis critical in producing the water?

    Also, my mom gave me Kangen water that was 9.5 Ph. Can you set the Jupiter system to go that high or even higher? Can your Jupiter system make acidic water? The lady gave my mom acidic water that has a real low Ph (I think 2.5) and it is supposed to kill any bacteria in 10 seconds. I told my mom "Why don't I buy you some swimming pool acid and we can put it in the RO water!" She told me: "Because we don't own a swimming pool!"

    That Jupiter system looks really kool!!
    well there are many benefits to this but the main one is that the water molecules are much smaller after the electrolysis and are therefore much more absorbable and also hydrate much more efficiently..

    I believe the jupiter can go that high.. it has 4 levels of both acidic and alakaline, 1 being the minimum and 4 being the maximum for both settings. acidic water is good for washing your face or swishing in your mouth or sprayed on surfaces as a disinfectant, and level 4 alkaline can pull pesticides off of veggies and fruit.

    it heavily depends on your water whether this machine can get it up to 9.5.. ours is more acidic than common water, so we can only get it up to the 8.5-9 range.. but its more than sufficient, we started drinking level 2 and moved to level 3 a few weeks after.. the body Ph should be around 7.3 so remember that.. everyone's body is different as well as diet.. so the point is homeostasis.. being too alkaline is also a bad thing.


    how old is your mother? and does she have any health problems? if you are open I have knowledge of several health devices and supplements that I have used to enrich my own mother's health greatly.. just let me know if I can help.. I don't like to give medical advice unless I am asked because people usually just fight me and say they know better.. got frustrating.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Drinking coffee made with RO/seawater right now.
    how long does it take?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    You can. Too spendy for large applications though.
    can't be more spendy than distillation, can it?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ducker View Post
    are you on the graveyard shift?
    No, 1200/2400.

    Was drinking some late night just to complete some paperwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    He roves around Walmart parking lots late at night. Needs to be alert. He misses whale spotting between voyages.
    Har har har.

    Everybody made such a freaking stink, I had to stop having my little bit of fun.

    Luckily. my subscription to Juggs and Giant Asses hasn't run out.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaltM View Post
    how long does it take?
    It's not a question of time, it only takes a few seconds to push through the system.

    The question is volume.

    More membranes, more pressure = more fresh water.

    Bypass rates have a lot to do with it as well, and one of the reasons seawater RO is more "pricey". Depending on salinity and turbidity of the incoming water, bypass rates can be as high as 99 percent in order not to plug the membranes.

    So for a hundred gallons pumped through the RO watermaker using seawater, you end up with only one gallon of potable water.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltM View Post
    can't be more spendy than distillation, can it?
    Yes.

    Distillation can be quite primitive, RO can not (as far as I know.)
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Yes.

    Distillation can be quite primitive, RO can not (as far as I know.)
    From a process engineering perspective, its the other way around. RO systems are actually very simple, large industrial scale evaporators, are not. Regardless, distillation is defined as the separation of liquids in a mixture where the liquid components of the mixture have different boiling points. Potable water is evaporated from seawater, whose boiling point relative to fresh water is insignificant. "Distilled water" is a misnomer.
    Last edited by Old Ducker; 08-29-2010 at 10:20 PM.



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