Site Information
About Us
- RonPaulForums.com is an independent grassroots outfit not officially connected to Ron Paul but dedicated to his mission. For more information see our Mission Statement.
Spread the word: Gold as Unpegged Legal Tender (GAULT) | PMBug's Vault (Articles)
That^^^
Talk of slowly morphing out of the welfare/warfare state is just that, talk.
It's going to suddenly and painfully collapse either way, on our terms or somebody else will set the terms.
The time is long past for natural wellness cures.
This is stage four gangrene, immediate radical surgery and amputation is required.
The alternative is death.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
"..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth
Not picking on you, but you were the nearest example.
Which has always made me wonder why people who think we're past the tipping point... are on forums dedicated to someone that won't make a lick of difference by being elected. Far from it! A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.
An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the ratpurephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.
Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.
Quite simple really.
It's to exhaust every single option, to at least go through the motions of "working within the system", to do what the founders did prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
To have the moral high ground of saying that we tried everything, before coming down to a fight.
And there's always the possibility we (the doom and gloom crowd) are wrong. So much the better, I hope we are.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
I've been singing this song in these forums for a while now. And I've even made the analogy that you refer to as "rapturphiles" as well, pointing out that the an-cap doomsday atheists have more in common with apocalyptaholics than they think.
But my ranting against this meme isn't helping any more than what anyone else is doing. I'm starting to wonder what substance there even is to this movement beyond the people who've become involved in the campaigns. I know there's lots of people floating around left over from the RP campaign, many of whom have switched to the Kokesh/Rand/Schiff campaigns, but most of whats active online outside the campaigns seems to be a lot of people with good intentions and anxiety issues who refuse to see that our "movement" is not grounded in any kind of organizational activities.
The Kansas CFL has supposedly around 2200 members. Only about 500 of those actually have user accounts created. Of those only about half have ever actually logged into it. Of those, more than half haven't logged in, in over a year (including our county coordinator). The state coordinator mostly parrots what the national coordinator is posting doing.
Point is, that CFL is basically a failed attempt to turn the RP campaigns mailing/donation list into a social network. It's still just a mailing/donation list. That's not bad in itself, whats bad is people online put up this facade that we're part of a "movement" when in fact we're mostly commenting on a movement that exists mostly in our minds.
I think the key to rebuilding is engaging one another, in some kind of organizational manner, outside the "campaign" paradigm. We don't lack ideas or motivation, we lack strategy.
I wish I knew the best way forward but I don't. And what bothers me most I think is this pervading belief within the liberty "movement" that everything is humming along as efficiently as is possible and that we're all part of something and that the path is clear, when secretly most of our "hopes" are positive Hail Mary #1 that RP wins the Presidency, and Negative Hail Mary #2 that we get Gary North style Y2K induced economic collapse.
I think before anything is going to really change though, many of us need to realize where we've gotten our minds stuck at.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
Last edited by lucius; 08-16-2010 at 12:59 PM.
"Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912)
2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.
I am starting to believe it is too late and that the nation is too far gone. How can one man overcome years of indoctrination and propaganda.
The fact is the majority of this country is completely ignorant to the fact that candidates and politicians they support are directly responsible for government aggression and oppressive policies used against them.
They blindly worship at the altar of government and do not even realize it due to years of indoctrination. Their idols will cry foul about any politician, candidate or party that proposes to reduce to size of government and eliminate policies that oppress the people of this nation. These sheep out of fear will continue to vote for those that oppress them.
I am starting to believe regional independence movements or an economic collapse will be the only means that some will realize freedom in our life time.
Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2010 at 11:24 AM.
You guys continually underestimate the surviving power of the modern state. They don't fall easy. If countrys like Afghanistan who past the tipping point at least 14275643.9 miles ago can remain cohesive, forget about the US falling in any foreseeable future especially given that the US doesn't have any historic ancient ethnic divisions along territorial lines.
So, it's not gonna happen.
It'll make for a delightful libertarian campfire side conversations though
What can happen is life becoming incredibly miserable, and the country's image being further tarnished and hated (yeah there is still a further low point that still eludes us IMHO).
So our job should be fighting to improve the now. Restoring the powers back to the states. A likely consequence would be a substantial population of libertines in one state like New Hampshire. We could put in effect our ides there and see if we are worthy of being emulated.
Last edited by LibertyVox; 08-16-2010 at 11:30 AM.
The problem with that is most states are worse than the federal government. Off the top of my head, if NY for example was independent none of the below would change. This is why regional independence movements are more likely to be the answer in the future.
1. Property and school taxes
- Property taxes are so high that even if you outright own property you are still really renting it from the government due to the oppressive tax policies. With the federal government out of the picture we would have more money in our pockets to pay these taxes but the level of taxation on private land is still unacceptable.
- Seniors and young people are being forced from their homes and to leave the state. How could anyone justify making seniors and the childless pay disapportionately and outrageous high public school taxes. Bad enough for young people but imagine having to relocate as a senior citizen after living there all your life. Those with grown children or the childless should not be subject to this tax in the first place.
- Private schools are closing because people cannot afford the public school taxes and pay for private school at the same time. No vouchers here. Schools are basically indoctrination camps for the progressive agenda here.
- Property taxes and enforcement is clearly an act of aggression against the citizens of NY.
2. Government intervention in personal affairs. State incentive and profit from destruction of families.
- 50% of marriages with children end in divorce. If it was not for government intervention most divorced parents would share custody and expenses. Most states including NY have an adversarial system with a financial incentive for one parent to make the other a slave through spousal and child support.
The states due to "welfare reform" receive federal dollars to uphold and implement such policies. The policy would not likely change without the federal government but at least the incentives and profiteering from it would be reduced.
- Thus both federal and state policies in this case create a financial incentive to separate one parent from their children, create a single parent household and create a master - slave relationship enforced by the government for 21 years.
- "Ability to earn" policy allow the government to dictate the slaves career. Failure to comply results in violence to the slave from the local authorities and debtors prison.
- Exceptions to prevent arrears due to illness or physical disability are not allowed. (this federal clause would disappear but some states have implemented the same policies)
- Thus the state creates an atmosphere where all divorced parents with children live in constant fear of government retribution if their ability to earn in the career of NY states choice. Federal incentives supporting such policies would disappear but the laws at the state level would still exist.
- The military industrial complex (defense contractors) manages the child support and social welfare systems in most states so the profit incentive if the federal government disappeared would not change.
- The elimination of the federal government would not change any of this other than federal incentives the states receive and eliminating the federal office of child support enforcement.
Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2010 at 12:49 PM.
I don't think it's too late for this country.
Simply put, yes we had a lot of natural resources that helped us become the powerhouse we are. That said, not all of these natural resources were buried in the ground just waiting for someone with some dynamite and a shovel to come collect it. Some of our natural resources were made. Thomas Edison, for example. He was an American Natural Resource, and he was made a natural resource (or rather, allowed to be a natural resource), by freedom.
Agree. Ron as president would accomplish an immense amount of good things, but he alone can't save the republic. Ron is just a man; eventually he will die, like all people.
The only way we can truly win the battle for liberty is by winning the war of ideas, which outlive men and endure generation to generation.
As long as people continue to think it's one person who will save us, then yes...we are screwed.
"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover
That about sums it up!
We have tons of problems on the horizon even if our political sytem was fine.
Besides Peak Oil, Peak Food, Peak Water, Peak NG, Peak Uranium, Overpopulation and a poisonous polluted world we have created here is a list of threats facing humans from S.R.T.
NATURAL THREATS
Natural Disasters on and from the Earth
Short Term and Regional
-Severe Storms, Wind, Lightening
-Hurricanes, Typhoons, Cyclones, Superstorms
-Tornados
-Tsunami/Tidal Waves
-Floods
-Fires - Forest/Brush
-Landslides
-Sinkholes
-Drought (Dust Bowl)
-Earthquake
-Volcano
-Animal caused famine (ie. locusts)
-Disease, Plague, Pandemics coming from nature (ie. bird flu)
Long Term / Climate Change
-Global Warming
-Ice Caps Melting, Oceans rising
-Ozone Loss/UV Damage
-Gulf stream changes, climate shift
-Global Cooling/Ice Age
-Global Pole Shift
Natural Disasters from Beyond the Earth and not caused by man
-Asteroid or Comet Impact
-Black Holes/Worm Holes
-Solar Flares/Coronal Ejections/Gamma Burst
-Alien Invasion, non-intelligent (Andromeda Strain, virus, bacteria)
-Alien Invasion intelligent life (War of the Worlds Scenario)
-Religious End of the World (Anti-Christ, Second Coming, etc.)
MAN MADE THREATS
Man-made Accidental Disasters
-Nuclear Reactor Disaster
-Chemical Disaster
-Biological Disaster
-Fires
-Grid failures, failures in technology that bring down services
-Climate change caused by mankind
-Genetic Engineering gone wrong GMO fears
-Nanobots gone wrong the gray goo, replicants, Blob scenario
-Artificial computers smarter than man Cylons, Terminator
Wars, Acts of Terrorism (Intentional Acts)
-Nuclear weapons
-Biological Weapons (small pox, anthrax, ricin, etc.)
-Chemical Weapons (never gas, mustard gas etc.)
-Conventional explosives/weapons
-Cyber attack attack by software control
-Individual levels such as identity theft
-"Fire sale" attacks which bring down the grid
-EMP attack or anything that takes out electronic hardware, computers
Government, Economic
-Progressive Loss of Freedoms to Individuals
-Big Brother fears, NAIS for humans, implanted micro-chips
-Economic Collapse breakdowns, depression, hyper-inflation
-Social or Government Collapse/Revolution
-World socialism, World Government take over, World Dictator
-Conspiracy theories coming true
-Corporate controlled World
Last edited by keepitlow; 08-30-2010 at 11:35 AM.
But I have to ask...if many of you are not thinking RP will save the USA - what are you doing here?
for me, I am here for news.
"..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth
Here's the problem: The central banking empire deals with control, not money. The base in Japan is protection for Japan- last time I checked, the US blew 2 of it's cities to smitherenes and obliterated it's army. In return the US gets a trade surplus from Japan.
I'm not saying you wrong. You are right. But this world is a designed web of deceit all the power in the hands of the banking elite/monarchs/mega corporations. There are always unintended consequences to our actions and doing what you suggest, although the right thing to do in theory would likely result in war. Everything is coming down to war anyway, but like I said- this $#@! is a trap.
"Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park
The difference between the depression and now was that back then our money was backed by metals. Money was not created out of thin air.
This time round things would have collapsed globally in a much worse depression except for the fact that we can create trillions through magnetizing a microchip. We create $$ by just saying it is there!
Bump
Is it too late even for Ron Paul to save us?
Waiting and searching for others to save you is already a loss in itself.
FJB
Not if he were declared king...
NeoReactionary. American High Tory.
The counter-revolution will not be televised.
Ron is himself, already saved by a King. If people want to be saved, they should look into Him.
Anyway, I still think post #37 is quite relevant. Only change is my understanding of strategy is progressed, while the movement is as full of apocalypto-philes as ever. Mostly of the secular variety.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
Connect With Us