had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.
but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.
can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?
Food stamps are but a small itty bitty piece of what would have to be cut. I doubt Dr. Paul would put that in the first 100 things to get rid of.Originally Posted by cindy25
The MIC needs to be cut, now do you see 60 senators voting for that?
There's no way he'd get rid of food stamps right away. Thered' be riots in the streets before morning. I can think of about 100 other things to end before cutting off the food supply of the poorest of the poor.
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
all the foreign wars, plus the useless bases in Germany, Korea and Japan would not reach $400 billion a year. deficit is nearly $2 trillion.
name where the other cuts come from.
Ron Paul should pardon anyone who kills a trespasser or looter during those riots.
If Ron Paul wins, he should just start pardoning people immediately. That would effectively nullify a lot of laws.
All kinds of places are ripe for budget cuts in the guberment! Education comes to my mind pretty quick along with other things already mentioned. I mean I work hard to afford to go to college, while 3/4 of the people I'm in class with get to go for free just because they're old or fit in some other special "disadvantaged" group!
The old people getting to go for free shows just how ridiculous that is anyway, since they have had their entire lives to save up money, and get benefits from the guberment. They can afford to pay for college far more easily than anyone! Why do they get to go for free?
Every aspect of goverment can likely take a sizeable budget cut. If there were more than a few parts that couldn't take a cut, I would be surprised.
So it probably wouldn't add up to enough, but just making lots of decent cuts across everything would add up to a decent amount fast. But the situation does require a drastic solution sadly.
I GOT MY BUSINESS MANAGEMENT SCIENCE DEGREE IN MY HANDS AND RAN!!!!!!! THEY'RE NEVER GETTING IT BACK!!!!!!!!!
"It is dissent from government policies that defines the true patriot and champion of liberty."
- Ron Paul
you would need a 35-40% cut, across the board. that means cutting social security, medicare, federal pensions, federal salaries including military. it means letting state pensions fail, it means banks failing and sorry no more FDIC.
How is one man going to save us? Ron isn't an omnipotent messiah who can wave his hand and solve our problems. We need millions of people to wake up and take back our government.
--------------------------------------------
First step to ending the income tax: end payroll tax withholding.
Require each American to write a check to their state and federal governments every month.
Hi Cindy. I don't like the wording of this OP.is it too late even for Ron Paul to save us?
I think I get the gist of what you were actually trying to say, but just in case I am wrong, I must say that it is not Ron Paul's job to save us.
RP may believe that his calling in life is to contribute something positive for his countrymen and other others and indeed that's his greatest gift to the rest of us: he has given us a firm footing of something genuinely good to stand upon.
But it is not up to him to save us. It never was or will be. That's the job for all of us individually. It has to be. Otherwise it's just too much burden on one man lolz.
He is not god or anything close to that. I do see him as a latter day prophet of sorts. But the truth is, he is an aging man, and may he live another 100 years in good health; it is entirely possible he may never become the POTUS, and I don't believe that he sees that as his mission in life anyways. We all know what his mission actually is as he has told us so many times over the years. And I do believe that he has succeeded in getting his message out.
I just think no one else could even come close.
things are much worse than people think. just one small sign, people giving up their dogs in Louisiana. this did not even happen during the depression. and that its happening in the south!
no region has a more dog oriented people.
CA, IL and NY could cut 50% and still not be in balance.
I don't think it's Ron Paul's job to "save" us, either. Even if he were elected, his main job would be like leading a severely agoraphobic person outdoors. The person is going to hate it. They are going to kick and scream and beg and cry and verbalize all of their worst fears. Imagine being out there for years like this, not acknowledging all the hysteria, but calmly addressing each fear while teaching the person to get their own food, to navigate from place to place, and so on. Though things that seem basic to most of us, to that terrified person each step will seem so new and frightening that they'll long to lock themselves back up again. After the years are done, they may do just that, but they will likely realize that they were outdoors for years and their worst fears were unfounded; they survived it. It might inspire them to go outside far more often.
Any President who wants to deviate from the now-normal way of speaking, thinking, and doing is going to have an incredibly tough road ahead. For starters, Dr. Paul would have a credibility problem. Perhaps you laugh at that, but it's true. He will be setting out to do what others have always said they would, but never did, and so his honest discussions with people about his agenda might fall on deaf or suspicious ears. Think of Obama saying he will go through the budgets with a scalpel and remove all the superfluous spending. Now think of Dr. Paul saying it. It sounds different because it is, but to the public it will be the same promise from a different person.
The trouble with any radical notion you can think of is that it would cause a panic. Cut the IRS? Well how will everything get funded? How will we survive?! PANIC!!! Programs cannot simply vanish. The people working those jobs would have it hardest, especially the low ones on the ladder. These are usually temps who are working contracts for the Government and aren't exactly wealthy to begin with. If welfare programs were cut at the same time, well, you can see how that would play out in the short term. While some of you salivate at the notion of a total collapse, I'm not sure you'd like it to happen on Dr. Paul's watch. That is just about the surest way to guarantee that the country shuts itself in and tries nothing new, and the reins of power are gathered once again by the same people we now hate.
So what's Dr. Paul's purpose? I think the very first step in going in the right direction is to stop. We can't simply reverse when we're going full-speed-ahead in the wrong direction. You slow, you stop, then you reverse course. Dr. No will earn his name from the highest seat, and while his vetoes can be overpowered by Congress he can stand by his rationale for why he said "no." Most of the time, his "no" will stand. That is a huge step.
The next step, to me, is to allow competition. I would do this before cutting every agency, because if private competitors arise then there will be employers for many of the Government workers. Some, of course, will need to find new lines of work (many of them lack the skills to really compete), but it will soften the blow and it will allow people some continuity in services. The example of the Post Office is brought up repeatedly as something which could be privatized. Well? Let it! Let companies run regular mail service if they'd like. Let people OPT OUT of regular mail service if they'd like. There are so many bull$#@! "challenges" put out there by every President. Let President Paul be the first to challenge people to put the Government out of business.
All the while, these things will reduce the amount of money being spent in Washington. Obviously, the wars must end. I wouldn't worry about numerous "unemployed military," either. They cost far less at home, and still train and work on their bases. As the competitive sector of the economy picks up, there will be all kinds of demand for disciplined young workers.
Ditch the DoE? As much as we'd all like public schools to vanish overnight, I doubt that will happen, either. The alternatives aren't yet established. His Presidency would be the time to plant the seeds for this... to encourage parents to form community schools for their children, or homeschool. Teachers might also be tempted by real private sector innovation, which could mean very good salaries without the unions and while teaching children who really want to learn (or "hazard pay" type increases for dealing with the troublesome ones). Imagine working to develop an online curriculum, or gathering resources for parents to use at home, or reviewing textbooks for accuracy and ease of use, versus going into a packed room of angst-ridden teens who'd rather be anywhere but in your classroom.
Encourage people to reclaim more gray space and make it green. You don't have to give people huge globs of money to do this. You simply don't take more money from them. If a community decides to make an area that used to just be a parking lot into a greenhouse and grow food there, don't swoop in and tax it as a business. If you're worried about "regulation" and "safety" of that food, ask yourself why you're not as worried about food you get at the store, or at a farm stand. It's not all checked. Not even most of it is checked. At least here, if you get sick, you can find the source right away. Encourage people to sponsor parks and forest land, and even lakes. We "adopt a road" all over the country, and many of them really are a little cleaner as long as the group involved patrols it on a regular basis.
The IRS needs to be taken down a bit at a time, too. The fat has to be trimmed right away, so that there are fewer layers to each and every thing. I used to work with Government agencies to bundle and mail out informational brochures and such, and it's astounding how something so simple can become so complicated. That needs to go away immediately. This, though, is an agency where Dr. Paul can win the people and secure our future, because once taxes are cut or gone, the next President is going to have a very hard time re-establishing the IRS monster to its current level. At most, they might re-establish the organization and a tax (perhaps with war as an excuse?) but in reality people who are used to $100,000/year, untaxed, will not stand for seeing that income suddenly cut in half by taxation at all angles. People take it now, because they never see that money. It becomes wishful thinking, like wondering what you'd do if you won the lottery. If you really had all of your income, and were setting it to use, you would not go quietly along with the idea of handing half of that income... half of that USE... to the Government.
So Ron Paul was never supposed to "save" us, but he could still do a great deal to show people that being outside without the Govenrment isn't as dangerous as they think it is.
Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.
We've passed the tipping point, it is too late to avoid the pain.
Why can't everybody else leave everybody else alone?
He isn't Superman. But the country has accelerated in the wrong direction over the last 2 years, and it was already on the brink. He can give us a good, hard jerk in the right direction.
(Pun unintended but appreciated, actually.)
"Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul
"Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden
And they don't. Period.
All the more reason to emulate the good things in RPs message, so that we don't have such a drought of good men.
@MelissaMW
Yeah, that's the reaction of a hypochondriac on crutches which is what a government's perceived largess is.How will we survive?! PANIC!!! Programs cannot simply vanish.
Luckily, that's exactly what Dr. Paul went to school for and earned his pay BEFORE he went to congress.
But I agree with most, he isn't going to "save" us. But perhaps he could be the philosophical leader, leading us out of the darkness after the inevitable collapse.
The US is in a downward spiral, and it's gaining steam.
Let's say Ron wins the presidency in '12.
He will be presiding over a collapsing economy.
The first couple of years at least could get REALLY bad.
Everything will be blamed on libertarianism. He may even be impeached. Not many people can see long term, and certainly, the media would not be friendly towards RP.
It is too late for Ron Paul to "save" us via politics, but continuing to get in front of the camera and talk about the evils of the income tax & federal reserve will help get the word out, and help people to see how useless and downright negative government is.
OK, I don't agree about the agoraphobic person being going to hate liberty. I think they will THINK they will hate it, or more, SPIN that OTHERS will hate it to keep their own power over others, but I think ordinary people will love it. We always have.... this isn't something new
"Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul
"Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden
I didn't say they'd ultimately hate it, but the average person will "hate" the steps. They'll fear most new things, and they'll ring the alarm about cutting this program or that one. People say they hate Government, but when you get down to it, they can't figure out how to dismantle it and they don't want to lose their "benefits," either.
Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.
No one is going to save you especially the us government. We are all on our own on that aspect!!
2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.
Thread winner.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
No one is coming to save you. The American government is broken and not even a Ron Paul Presidency will be able to repair it.
We have to become the change we want to see regardless of the politicians that run our government.
Only you have the power to change the world.
If Ron Paul could singlehandedly save a nation, wouldn't that kind of be a pro-dictator argument?
"One of the great victories of the state, is that the word "Anarchy" terrifies people but, the word "State" does not" - Tom Woods
is this thread a whining competition?
That's it. We are at the tipping point now, can people imagine how bad it will be by 2012?
Politicians talk about cutting domestic spending, but no politician has the guts, except Ron Paul, to talk about cutting foreign aid. Putting Ron Paul in office in 2012 is like changing captains on the Titanic after if hit the iceberg.
"..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth
Department of Homeland inSecurity, FEMA, Department of Education, Department of Agriculture, privatize NASA, give the states back their national guards along with the responsibility of funding them, the FCC, end the war on drugs, allow for hemp production, Department of Energy, you can cut back on the coast guard without a federal war on drugs, (just rescuing drunk boaters doesn't cost that much), end all foreign aid, cut federal employees salaries down to the point where they match the private sector, I'm sure other people can think of a lot more.
Also a lot depends on putting America on a better trajectory. Folks that have reached retirement age factoring "social security" into their survival income (or just not planning at all) are pretty much stuck. But we don't have to let future generations make that same mistake. The sooner social security is privatized and/or done away with the better for all concerned. Same goes for medicare. There's no reason a 21 year old can't start a long term medical investment account to take care of his needs once he's 65. But it would be unwise (an politically undoable) to cut the funds to the seniors who need them now.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Singing "Dream, dreeeam, dream, whenever I want to, all I have to do is dreeeeam.."
"..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth
Mmmhmm.
Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi
First of all I can assure you that there are several of is who fear that it is too late to save America.
But remember that Ron Paul says if we ended our empire, we could fund all our social programs while phasing them out. That's the only plan that would work, IMHO.
But the neocons have no interest in domestic policy. They'd rather see us in tents than give up one inch of global real estate.
i suggest everyone make sure they have -40 north face sleeping bags, seems the best on the market for the money and your life! Another essential is a good water filter! i fear angelatc is correct. america might be beyond saving! to broke to buy land already lost everything i worked for since 18 but i am doing my best to learn high altitude growing and to start over!
my short term goal buy some farm land in colorado and pay my slave taxes and do my best to keep government out of my life! Grow your own food and prepare for the worse to come! that is what i am expecting. when you look at the 2 failed parties. we should expect nothing but failure from our government!!
Last edited by speciallyblend; 08-16-2010 at 09:53 AM.
2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.
It's too late. Whoever is president for the 2012 term will be in a no win situation. Figures it might be Ron Paul...
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