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Last edited by jct74; 04-21-2012 at 03:44 PM.
Awe. I hate sad endings.
Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system. - Bruce Lee
i'd say it gets the point across though, wouldn't ya?Originally Posted by djdellisanti4
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
Indeed, facebook-worthy too.
Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system. - Bruce Lee
I don't like the analogy in that clip that regulating and taxing it benefited society. I am against the legalization of all drugs because I don't want government regulating and controlling it. I'd rather see possession de-criminalized and I truly wish it could function in the black market without the violence.
Everyone who says the violence is a result of the fact that it's not legalized, regulated and taxed by the gov't also complains about regulation and taxation by that same gov't. What a dichotomy! Or is it hypocrisy? You can't have it both ways.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
this video rules! spread it around.
Which set of crooks would you want to have control over the drugs then? The criminals in office that rob you and I to afford three million dollar yachts, or the criminals on the streets that rob you and I to afford the drugs so they can also buy three million dollar yachts?
Its the LAW that gives DRUG DEALERS POWER.
It is the LAW that gives CRIMINALS POWER when GUNS are outlawed.
It is the LAW that gives CRIMINALS POWER when SELF DEFENSE is outlawed.
It is the LAW that brings the danger and the problems and recovery from the problems of making ANYTHING illegal takes a long time to recover from, and as always, there will be a LOT of opposition.
Its not that I dont understand your point, I do agree that everyone running around high as $#@! will increase the personal risk of idiots that do drugs and drive, but then again, these are the same idiots that drive drunk, and alcohol is legal... It wasnt always...
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
Statistics show that addiction is caused more by legal drugs (and alcohol) than illegal drugs. But that's another story. As I stated, I wish the black market could function w/out the violence. We had better start giving that more consideration because I have a distinct feeling that the black market is going to be our only hope once this gov't gets its hands on every business that exists right now.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
Nice video. As far as taxes go, I don't think many would mind being that if they didn't want to pay taxes they'd jut grow it themsleves.
Libertarians - trying to improve the world through ideas and free markets rather than legislation and prisons.
Except it's not hypocrisy or a dichotomy. It's a baby step, in the same manner that activism is a series of baby steps toward individual liberty.
You guys are getting bent out of shape over nothing.
Most governments put a sin tax on alcohol. Have those taxes really caused that many problems? Of course not, it's just an additional revenue stream for governments.
We have to make sure our municipalities or states spend that money responsibly, then we have to work to eliminate the idea that mere consumption of weed or alchohol is sinful, and therefore shouldn't be taxed as such.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
I'd argue that "additional revenue" that enables governments to grow has indeed caused problems.
But the tax itself doesn't lead to more violence than prohibition, that's my only point.
Baby steps. Legalize and tax now, work on reducing the tax later.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
I'm with you 100% in that regard.
Yeah, that's always worked out well.I can't get over how double-standard people are about this issue.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
How so? Personally, I'm all for incrementally reversing the police state that has been built up incrementally.
As am I. But, giving the gov't regulatory and taxation control over illicit drugs seems to me, to be going in the opposite direction. We're gonna give them control and then "incrementally" take it away? When has that EVER worked out for us? Once the gov't is given power, it never gives it back.
People just want what they want without thinking it through. It's a double-standard. They bitch and complain relentlessly on these forums about individual freedom, the gov't sux, no new laws, blahdee blah! And then they praise Cali for wanting to regulate and tax their weed. FFS.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
You're not giving the government more control. They can throw you in jail for smoking weed now, we hope to get it to where they can just take some money when you buy it from a local shop. That isn't more control.Yeah, that's always worked out well.
And besides, IT DID WORK WELL! We legalized alcohol, states are taxing it, and we don't have the mafia dealing alcohol in the black market and offing their competitors.
Last edited by BenIsForRon; 08-02-2010 at 10:41 PM.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
And we have a HUGE addiction problem as a result. Statistics show that most addiction results from the drugs (including alcohol) that are legal, i.e. pharmaceuticals. Addiction is a big problem in this country. I'm not saying we should put the toothpaste back in the tube. And I don't have all the answers, but decriminalizing possession of all illicit drugs - no prison time - should come first. imo.
And I'm not sure why you think we're not relinquishing control to the gov't if we allow them to regulate and tax illicit drugs.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
and you don't think the "giving the gov't regulatory and taxation control over illicit drugs" that you decry involves just that?
How so? You'd be taking power away from them if they can't toss your butt in jail for possession. How is that the same thing?
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
what I'm saying is both get a little out of it. You get to not get thrown in jail because it is legalized and no longer part of the black market. They get a little out of it by gaining an additional revenue stream. Sure, I'd prefer just decriminalized but I foresee the first option as something that is more sellable to the public and the govt drones.
Under your legal regime people who sell or manufacture the drugs could be thrown in jail, and people who use the drugs could get a fine if they are caught. So the government is saying you don't have a right to put the stuff in your body. That is less freedom, compared to legalization and taxation.
And the problem of addiction is not dealt with through punishment, either with fines or jail, it's dealt with through rehab and support programs, whether private or public. Addicts need help, not punishment.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
I don't. It keeps good people out of prison, and it keeps the gov't out of your pocket by way of taxation. I am for a thriving, non-violent black market. I know of some in the medical profession who intend to go that route when Obamacare kicks in. We should all be thinking about the black market in a new light. I think illicit drugs should remain there, the violence notwithstanding.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
Under MY legal regime???? You're the one who wants it legalized. LOL!
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
I meant legal regime as in "the system of laws you would like to see dealing with drugs".
By the way, growers, producers, and sellers would still be thrown in jail under decriminalization, and that is much less free than taxing their sales. You have yet to refute that point.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
What part of 'advocate for the black market' don't you understand?
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
So you're talking about decriminalization for sellers/producers too? So everybody gets a fine? After they're fined, do they get to keep their drugs?
Under a legalize/tax system, people get to keep their drugs. Less government control.
if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka
Are you under the impression that legalization and regulation eliminates the black market?
In this case it would, as it certainly has for alcohol. I'm sure there are still some distilleries around, and more power to them.
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
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