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Thread: Return to RHETORIC

  1. #1

    Return to RHETORIC

    I started a thread over in Generap Politics a couple weeks ago because I thought the topic was important and might get more exposure there. It got no traction, which I am afraid is a rather sad statement WRT to the general posture of many of the otherwise seemingly very intelligent people in these forums.

    Anyhow, I paste it below just for the sake of completeness. Perhaps it will see more traction here, though I cannot say I'm optimistic. It seems most people really do not grasp the significance of this. Such is life, I suppose. The first three paragraphs are mostly irrelevant, but I include them anyway. The meat begins with the paragraph in bold-face.

    ************************************************** ***********

    A member made a comment in another thread about how we should default on our national debt. I pointed out to him why this was the worst possible idea and after posting it occurred to me that this is a bit of information that should be more widely disseminated, so I decided I should repeat myself here. This is what I wrote in response:

    Quote:
    Let us clear up a point of terminology. We do not "default" on the debt. We REPUDIATE it. There is a HUGE difference between the two. To default on the debt is, at the very least, to tacitly acknowledge that it is legitimate. Our debt is NOT legitimate - at least MY portion of it is not because I did not consent and am therefore contractually responsible to repay. Each of us must make a similar determination for himself. Nor did I receive equal consideration, further absolving me from any obligation. There are more contractual elements that are not present in this issue, but let us leave it at this as these are more than sufficient to demonstrate the absence of contract in this case.

    REPUDIATION, OTOH, is an assertion of the illegitimacy of the debt in its very fabric. Because the debt was not legitimate to begin with, I am not obliged to honor it. That is the question every single American needs to ask himself. Did you receive equal consideration? Did you consent to it EXPLICITLY? If the answers to even one of these questions is "no", then you have a decision to make: honor someone else's debt or repudiate - but NEVER default because in so doing you are telling the world that you acknowledge the debt as legitimate and this opens you up to very real trouble.

    One further lesson here lies in the use of language. Words have meanings, and in the legal world they have very specific meanings and if you substitute one word for another ("default" for "repudiate") you could be sending your own ship to the bottom in real style and speed. Learn to be PRECISE in your use of language. Trust me, it is the SINGLE most important thing you will ever do in your entire life, bar none.



    I do not know how to sufficiently impress upon all of you just how centrally critical sound language skills and habits are to the cause of liberty. There is no other basic human skill that can compare with it in significance - that I promise you.

    Recall the 3-Rs - good old Reading, wRiting, and 'Rithmetic? Most folks appear to be unaware that it was originally the 4-Rs, the fourth being Rhetoric. I find it interesting to note that the most singularly important of the 4-Rs is precisely the one that our esteemed institutions of learning cut from the standard curriculum. Better they had removed math. One of the most important efforts people should be endeavoring to make is to return rhetoric to the classroom. It puts even reading and writing to paling where significance is concerned. It is the single most important skill we learn and we are no longer taught it in any meaningful way. It might do us good to take a moment to ask ourselves why that might be.

    A movement to return to a strong training in the use of language is paramount to the maintenance of a free state even more so than arms. Think about that, as well. I feel that this should be discussed at great length, here and everywhere.

    Finally, I placed this in General Politics with very definite intent, rather than in Education. This needs to become a mainline issue or everything we do here is for nothing - it is THAT important.
    Last edited by osan; 07-15-2010 at 12:22 PM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  3. #2

    How exactly?

    Nice effort, thanks osan.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    ...Learn to be PRECISE in your use of language...
    How can we do this when "the system" and media purposefully support changing and obscuring the real meaning of important words?
    No one here wanted to be the Billionaire.

  4. #3

    Definition of RHETORIC

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric
    I: the art of speaking or writing effectively: as
    • a : the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times
    • b : the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion
    II
    • a : skill in the effective use of speech
    • b : a type or mode of language or speech; also : insincere or grandiloquent language

    III: verbal communication : discourse

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Vidual View Post
    Nice effort, thanks osan.

    How can we do this when "the system" and media purposefully support changing and obscuring the real meaning of important words?
    You do it through discipline pursuant to convincing yourself that it is a worthy trouble. Use words properly and eprhaps some of your friends will follow suit. Discuss it with them - with your kids - with their kids - with interested strangers.

    People often are covetous of power, yet they know not the root of all power is language. If they wish to be powerful, they must first master rhetorical skills. This is not an option.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  6. #5
    Bump, on the ridiculous assumption that in the intervening six years the charades to which we have all been subjected might give rise to an AHA! moment for some.

    ... sorta.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  7. #6
    It depends on what the meaning of is is.

  8. #7
    "When things get bad you need a constitution. When things get really bad you need a bible. When things get really, really bad you need a dictionary. - wizardwatson"
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    It depends on what the meaning of is is.
    I KNOW the meaning of "wisenheimer".
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  11. #9
    Good post, brother Osan! There are quite a lot of teachers (though apparently still in the minority) out there lamenting the loss of proper training in rhetoric and the language arts in most skools. I believe trimming these and logic/critical thinking and history are very deliberate actions-Iserbyt famously called it "The Deliberate Dumbing Down Of America".
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I KNOW the meaning of "wisenheimer".
    Yes, guilty as charged, but also I'm making a point. When the language becomes as bastardized as it is and so many use words to deceive and deflect (successfully I might add) it seems a insurmountable task. Now you can flame me for being defeatist....

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Yes, guilty as charged, but also I'm making a point. When the language becomes as bastardized as it is and so many use words to deceive and deflect (successfully I might add) it seems a insurmountable task. Now you can flame me for being defeatist....
    I get the point, I was only being a wisenheimer.

    Defeatist? Realist, IMO. But even in the face of certain death, press on regardless. We may not be able to choose when we die, but we can always choose how to meet our ends. I see no reason to lay down.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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