Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37

Thread: The Lord of the Rings: A Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist Message

  1. #1

    The Lord of the Rings: A Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist Message

    I was watching The Fellowship of the Ring last night(I often do when I have trouble falling asleep, great movies and the music is very relaxing).

    The main reason I love the Fellowship of the Ring movie and the book is because of The Shire.

    The book goes into more details about it, but The Shire in LotR is a very libertarian/anarcho-capitalist society. They have no organized government. All they really have is a Mayor whom they all elect who pretty much officiates parties and such.

    The only services the "government" offered was the post-service and the Sherrifs whom were volunteers whom wandered the land and protected the hobbits from natural dangers(such as wolves) and mediated disputes, in total for the entire Shire there were 12 of them. The Bounders were also an unofficial border control of militia volunteers whom protect the Shire from outside dangers such as gangs and ruffians, and many years ago: goblins.

    There is also the Thain and the Master of Buckland, but these are rather hereditary titles granted to the heads of two families(the Tooks and the Brandybucks respectively) by the King of the North many years ago. They exercise little, if any power beyond ceremonial.

    The Hobbits live in a completely voluntaryist society, where private property is respected and so is the rights of every individual.

    At the end of the Return of the King it goes into great detail about how a bunch of ruffians and bandits took over the Shire(lead by Sauruman) and made tons of laws. It's hilarious how blunt Tolkien is when laws such as "redistribution for the poor" are introduced, one of the hobbits says "All they mean is that they take more food from us and redistribute it amongst themselves." The hobbits then muster a voluntary militia force in which they fight back the occupiers.

    The rest of the books have a very libertarian message as well, I'll see if I can go over them more later.

    But, definitely the best message is that of the One Ring. Even the most powerful of beings that are beyond mortal(Gandalf, Elrond, Galadrial) and even powerful mortals (Aragorn) know they cannot resist the ultimate power of the One Ring and must destroy it. A very good damnation of Big Government.
    Last edited by Vessol; 07-04-2010 at 12:29 PM.
    "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."-Étienne de La Boétie



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    The last time I read the book was before I became a Ron Pauler. You've just inspired me to read it again

  4. #3
    Wagner's Ring (of Niebelung) cycle is pretty libertarian too. If you like opera (and speak German), check it out sometime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate-ForLiberty View Post
    The last time I read the book was before I became a Ron Pauler. You've just inspired me to read it again
    Rereading the LOTR books is more fulfilling than the initial read, I think. You know which parts to skim through. Damn but there's a lot of pointless filler in those books!

    Tom Bombadil needs to die in a fire. Entirely.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  6. #5
    Tom Bombadil! Hi ho Merry Dol! I love Tom Bombadil <3.

    He is the manifestation of Eru the creator. He shows a very Deistic approach to religion. A deity who does not interfere in the ways of the world.
    "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."-Étienne de La Boétie

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    But, definitely the best message is that of the One Ring. Even the most powerful of beings that are beyond mortal(Gandalf, Elrond, Galadrial) and even powerful mortals (Aragorn) know they cannot resist the ultimate power of the One Ring and must destroy it. A very good damnation of Big Government.
    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

    Of course there could be a debate as to why the elven rings of power don't corrupt...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Rereading the LOTR books is more fulfilling than the initial read, I think. You know which parts to skim through. Damn but there's a lot of pointless filler in those books!

    Tom Bombadil needs to die in a fire. Entirely.
    Yes.. Tolkien was quite fond of describing every piece of furniture, dinner plates, silverwear and carpets.. Pretty much every detail possible..

  9. #8
    I feel kind of left out, as I've never read LOTR
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

    Of course there could be a debate as to why the elven rings of power don't corrupt...
    Elven nature is different then that of humans. They are more resistant to things like power. After all the only person that gets offered the ring freely was Galadriel and she is able to resist it. The same can not be said for Gandalf and Aragorn. Both warn Frodo that if freely given they will take it.

    Anyways while I am going all geek on you guys add Sword of Truth to the list. I heard he came out of retirement and is writing more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  12. #10
    http://www.strike-the-root.com/abolitionist-argument-in-35-seconds

    In short, the Lord of the Rings could be viewed as an allegory for anything you want to see and it does have libertarian messages, but the Shire is not an example of an "anarcho"-capitalist society.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Rereading the LOTR books is more fulfilling than the initial read, I think. You know which parts to skim through. Damn but there's a lot of pointless filler in those books!

    Tom Bombadil needs to die in a fire. Entirely.
    I <3 Tom Bombadil! Have you read the Silmarillion? If not, do! Mr. B makes much more awesome sense with a full back story of Middle Earth.



    ....such a nerd

  14. #12
    There are so many ways to view this movie and espcially the books. Religously, politically, historically, esoterically, just for entertainment, etc. It's a story that can be dissected through many lenses. Most people haven't a clue the genius of the movie on so many levels.

    Though it promotes One World Order (King Aragorn) more than libertarianism. Kings and freedom are like oil and water. I sure wasn't dissapponted when I looked at Tolkien's biography to see ties into the manipulator's of the One World Order. Just a couple of obvious clues: Son of a banker and appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    There are so many ways to view this movie and espcially the books. Religously, politically, historically, esoterically, just for entertainment, etc. It's a story that can be dissected through many lenses. Most people haven't a clue the genius of the movie on so many levels.

    Though it promotes One World Order (King Aragorn) more than libertarianism. Kings and freedom are like oil and water. I sure wasn't dissapponted when I looked at Tolkien's biography to see ties into the manipulator's of the One World Order. Just a couple of obvious clues: Son of a banker and appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II.
    I'm not so sure about the One World Order thing. Rohan and Gondor were two separate kingdoms although allied. And at the end of the story Aragorn orders that men are to stay out of the shire.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    Tom Bombadil! Hi ho Merry Dol! I love Tom Bombadil <3.

    He is the manifestation of Eru the creator. He shows a very Deistic approach to religion. A deity who does not interfere in the ways of the world.
    LOL! I love Tom Bombadil! I found a very extensive essay on him

    http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/Bombadil.html

    On that note, I Tolkien wrote this in a letter to his son.

    My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) – or to ‘unconstitutional’ monarchy . . . Anyway, the proper study of man is anything but man; and the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity. And at least it is done only to a small group of men who know who their master is. The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers. And so on down the line. But, of course, the fatal weakness of all that — after all only the fatal weakness of all good things in a bad corrupt unnatural world — is that it works and has worked only when all the world is messing along in the same good old inefficient human way.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate-ForLiberty View Post
    I <3 Tom Bombadil! Have you read the Silmarillion? If not, do! Mr. B makes much more awesome sense with a full back story of Middle Earth.

    ....such a nerd
    I've read it, yes.

    I still dislike the passages in Fellowship of the Ring about him. The entire episode is overlong and seems to throw the pace entirely off-track.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  18. #16
    Funny, I watched the fellowship of the ring two days ago and the two towers last night. But, I have never read the books. Judging by your comments it seems I have missed an incredible amount of stuff.
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by libertybrewcity View Post
    Funny, I watched the fellowship of the ring two days ago and the two towers last night. But, I have never read the books. Judging by your comments it seems I have missed an incredible amount of stuff.
    Well, and you likely have a few things backwards, too. The movies took a few liberties... some of which bothered me. I'm not all geeked out on movies being precisely as written, but when the reason for changing something is stinky, it really is annoying.

    Arwen is not some warrior princess who rides up and saves Frodo by getting him across the river, dammit. I guess the movie had filled it's old dude quota and decided to change the whole scene.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate-ForLiberty View Post
    I'm not so sure about the One World Order thing. Rohan and Gondor were two separate kingdoms although allied. And at the end of the story Aragorn orders that men are to stay out of the shire.
    Yes, but they were both "kingdoms". I suppose you could have a libertarian king but history says otherwise....lol. One has to be pretty deep into researching the New World Order from many angles to see the fingerprints of them all over this film.

  22. #19
    Tolkien was an anarchist. And he did incorporate that message into LOTR.

    But why do you specify "anarcho-capitalist"? Did anarcho-capitalism even exist when Tolkien wrote it?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    Yes, but they were both "kingdoms". I suppose you could have a libertarian king but history says otherwise....lol. One has to be pretty deep into researching the New World Order from many angles to see the fingerprints of them all over this film.
    Look at my last post; in his own words, Tolkien leaned towards anarchy. I suppose that's also why he preferred the lifestyle of Hobbits to those of the other races.

    On that note, I don't think LOTR was meant to be regarded as a political story, nor did Tolkien intend for us to be reading into it and clue hunting. If anything prompted him to write it, it was his love of languages, not a political agenda.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Tolkien was an anarchist. And he did incorporate that message into LOTR.

    But why do you specify "anarcho-capitalist"? Did anarcho-capitalism even exist when Tolkien wrote it?
    He does seem to believe in property rights in LOTR. As I understand it, that's the main thing that differentiates an ancap.
    “If you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.” -CS Lewis

    The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft.

    If our society were a forum, congress would be the illiterate troll that somehow got a hold of the only ban hammer.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by tremendoustie View Post
    He does seem to believe in property rights in LOTR.
    If you mean Tolkien includes something in LOTR that somehow defends the concept of property rights, especially property rights in a sense that clearly comports with anarcho-capitalism and not other forms of anarchism, then what part of LOTR do you have in mind?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    If you mean Tolkien includes something in LOTR that somehow defends the concept of property rights, especially property rights in a sense that clearly comports with anarcho-capitalism and not other forms of anarchism, then what part of LOTR do you have in mind?
    I'm no expert in "anarchism" -- I wasn't aware that there are forms of anarchy, other than anarcho-capitalist, that respect property rights. Really, the only other form I'm familiar with is anarcho-communist, and I know they don't respect property rights.

    But, throughout LOTR I'd say property rights are respected. There are well defined homeowners and landholders almost every civilized place in middle earth. There is lots of trade, markets, pubs, stores, etc.

    I'm no LOTR expert either though ...
    “If you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.” -CS Lewis

    The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft.

    If our society were a forum, congress would be the illiterate troll that somehow got a hold of the only ban hammer.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by tremendoustie View Post
    I'm no expert in "anarchism" -- I wasn't aware that there are forms of anarchy, other than anarcho-capitalist, that respect property rights. Really, the only other form I'm familiar with is anarcho-communist, and I know they don't respect property rights.

    But, throughout LOTR I'd say property rights are respected. There are well defined homeowners and landholders almost every civilized place in middle earth. There is lots of trade, markets, pubs, stores, etc.

    I'm no LOTR expert either though ...
    I don't think that including scenes that involve property and trade should be read as somehow advancing an anarcho-capitalist agenda, as opposed to an anarcho-communist one, as though an anarcho-communist author would not include those things in a book he writes. To say that Tolkien advances anarchism in LOTR (to the degree that he does at all, which I agree he does to an extent) isn't to say that everything he portrays throughout the whole story is one enormous picture of the kind of society he thinks is ideal, it's to say that some of the ethical messages that he embeds in the book are messages that especially comport with anarchy. I also am skeptical that anarcho-communists believe that nobody should live in homes, grow things on land, or engage in any trade with one another.

    But at any rate, given the time that Tolkien wrote LOTR, I don't think that there was the same taxonomy of the same different kinds of anarchists as there is now, so it might be anachronistic to say he's either one or the other. We do know that when he wrote that he leaned toward anarchy in 1943 he didn't mean that term with any sense that could have been influenced by Murray Rothbard.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Rereading the LOTR books is more fulfilling than the initial read, I think. You know which parts to skim through. Damn but there's a lot of pointless filler in those books!

    Tom Bombadil needs to die in a fire. Entirely.
    Will you marry me?
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I don't think that including scenes that involve property and trade should be read as somehow advancing an anarcho-capitalist agenda, as opposed to an anarcho-communist one, as though an anarcho-communist author would not include those things in a book he writes. To say that Tolkien advances anarchism in LOTR (to the degree that he does at all, which I agree he does to an extent) isn't to say that everything he portrays throughout the whole story is one enormous picture of the kind of society he thinks is ideal, it's to say that some of the ethical messages that he embeds in the book are messages that especially comport with anarchy. I also am skeptical that anarcho-communists believe that nobody should live in homes, grow things on land, or engage in any trade with one another.

    But at any rate, given the time that Tolkien wrote LOTR, I don't think that there was the same taxonomy of the same different kinds of anarchists as there is now, so it might be anachronistic to say he's either one or the other. We do know that when he wrote that he leaned toward anarchy in 1943 he didn't mean that term with any sense that could have been influenced by Murray Rothbard.
    Sure, I mean, frankly, I wouldn't have guessed he was an anarchist at all just by reading LOTR. But, if he were, I was just saying he sounds more ancap.

    I think most people, if you somehow made them anarchist, would be ancap. Not very many people actually advocate a usage based definition of property, for example (I believe that's the an-comm position). My understanding is that ancoms do not believe in land ownership at all, business ownership, or employee/employer relationships. They don't believe there should be such a thing as people who rent property to others.

    I guess, I'm just saying, if you're telling me he's an anarchist, he really doesn't sound like some other, frankly far more extreme version of anarchist. I don't picture him throwing bricks through starbucks windows, that's for sure.

    If you believe everyday life is more or less reasonable in the US, and would not drastically change how people interact on a daily basis -- selling goods, renting property, business ownership, etc, and you're an anarchist, you're ancap.
    Last edited by tremendoustie; 07-04-2010 at 06:06 PM.
    “If you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.” -CS Lewis

    The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft.

    If our society were a forum, congress would be the illiterate troll that somehow got a hold of the only ban hammer.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Tolkien was an anarchist. And he did incorporate that message into LOTR.

    But why do you specify "anarcho-capitalist"? Did anarcho-capitalism even exist when Tolkien wrote it?
    Yes. Molinari penned the first Voluntaryist scholarship soon after Bastiat's death in the 1850s. He was Bastiats protege.
    School of Salamanca - School of Austrian Economics - Liberty, Private Property, Free-Markets, Voluntaryist, Agorist. le monde va de lui même

    "No man hath power over my rights and liberties, and I over no mans [sic]."

    What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.

    www.mises.org
    www.antiwar.com
    An Arrow Against all Tyrants - Richard Overton vis. 1646 (Required reading!)

  32. #28
    I read in an old book called University of knowledge, that Gollum was a bogey man to European Jews.
    I also did not like Tom Bombadil.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    Look at my last post; in his own words, Tolkien leaned towards anarchy. I suppose that's also why he preferred the lifestyle of Hobbits to those of the other races.

    On that note, I don't think LOTR was meant to be regarded as a political story, nor did Tolkien intend for us to be reading into it and clue hunting. If anything prompted him to write it, it was his love of languages, not a political agenda.
    Eh, I've heard it was his experiences in WWI which contented himself to write it. Though I must say most of it is mere conjecture as he never permitted his thoughts to pen on this matter (To the best of my knowledge).
    School of Salamanca - School of Austrian Economics - Liberty, Private Property, Free-Markets, Voluntaryist, Agorist. le monde va de lui même

    "No man hath power over my rights and liberties, and I over no mans [sic]."

    What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.

    www.mises.org
    www.antiwar.com
    An Arrow Against all Tyrants - Richard Overton vis. 1646 (Required reading!)

  34. #30

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. FED: The Lord of the Rings and the Fed
    By Smaulgld in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-21-2013, 10:13 AM
  2. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-11-2009, 03:52 PM
  3. Iran Tries to Pacify Protesters With Lord Of The Rings Marathon
    By dannno in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-25-2009, 11:40 PM
  4. Lord of the Rings (Central Banks)
    By cska80 in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-19-2008, 06:28 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2008, 08:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •