View Poll Results: Should the people be free to transact unimpeded in any currency they choose?

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  • Yes. The people should be free to transact unimpeded in any currency they choose.

    39 95.12%
  • No. The government should force the people by law or taxation to transact only in govnmnt currency.

    2 4.88%
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Thread: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    I was under the impression that he believes repealing legal tender laws would be easier than ending the Fed, not that he thinks it should be done first. In any case, both need to be done. I care not what order it's done in.
    Good point. I think repealing "legal tender" scam will end the Fed, because fiat money cannot exist without government coercion (because by their nature fiat money are nothing more than plunder).



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  3. #62
    I added a poll at the top of this thread. Please vote!

    Thanks.

  4. #63
    Question

    If we want a commodity based economy in a free market, what happens to the value of the currency when / if we hit Peak Oil, Potato Blight, Drought that kills massive crops?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Question

    If we want a commodity based economy in a free market, what happens to the value of the currency when / if we hit Peak Oil, Potato Blight, Drought that kills massive crops?
    Wherever happens, you will be MUCH better off with free competition in currencies and 100% commodity based money, than with government forced fiat, because the government will not be able to rob you through legalized counterfeiting and inflation. The markets will be able to adjust and recover much faster under free market conditions and sound money, than under government regulation and theft.

    Free market is the best system known to man, it is an expression of individual liberty.
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 12-27-2010 at 12:49 AM.



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  7. #65
    Ron Paul Competing Currencies Can 'End the Fed' Softly

    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 12-28-2010 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #66
    Since I cannot edit the top of the thread, I'll have to post updates here:


    Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

    Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden.

    Since no individual can rightfully force his neighbor to transact or not to transact in certain medium of exchange, he cannot delegate such authority to his government. Also, free competition in currencies, by the force of Free Market, prevents the government from plundering the people through legalized counterfeiting and debasing of the currency.

    Therefore: the government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that the people are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent operation of private currencies, mints, or free competition in currencies among private citizens, nor charge capital gain, sales, or any other taxes, duties or fees on the medium of exchange. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.



    If I had to say what the benefits would be, I'd say:

    Free Competition in currencies kills fiat, because fiat is nothing but an instrument of plunder via legalized counterfeiting and inflation by a government forced monopoly, therefore it cannot exist without government force. Free Market, absent government coercion, will reject such a currency because no one likes being plundered.

    So, Free Competition in currencies slays fiat, and with it welfare state and war state, because it makes it impossible for the government to rob and plunder the people, and steal their wealth through legalized counterfeiting and inflation.

    Thus, Free Competition in currencies binds the government down with the chains of sound money, making possible liberty and prosperity of the people.
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 01-13-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  9. #67
    Im all for competing currencies (for people, govt should ALWAYS pay in something in value, gold, silver, etc, not paper), but the problem is that currency is not money it is the ghost of money. Now, the question is, who gets charged with printing the Currency or competing Currencies? The banks? We go right back to square one, where we are right now.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Im all for competing currencies (for people, govt should ALWAYS pay in something in value, gold, silver, etc, not paper), but the problem is that currency is not money it is the ghost of money. Now, the question is, who gets charged with printing the Currency or competing Currencies? The banks? We go right back to square one, where we are right now.
    Why not let anyone and everyone print currency without restriction and let the best currency printer win?
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  11. #69
    Exactly! Money is just another product. The most stable and trustworthy product wins! How simple is that!

  12. #70
    This may be semantics....but CURRENCY is a product. MONEY is a commodity.



    Quote Originally Posted by Foundation_Of_Liberty View Post
    Exactly! Money is just another product. The most stable and trustworthy product wins! How simple is that!
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    This may be semantics....but CURRENCY is a product. MONEY is a commodity.
    Agreed.

  14. #72
    Promoting an "Honest Money Constitutional Amendment" would be a good way to spread the message of liberty.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan



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  16. #73
    I love the link you provided:

    Gold, Peace, and Prosperity
    by Ron Paul
    http://mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 01-13-2011 at 01:43 PM.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Foundation_Of_Liberty View Post
    I love the link you provided:

    Gold, Peace, and Prosperity
    by Ron Paul
    http://mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf
    Thank you. It is one of my favorites because in that paper Dr. Paul shows how PM's are honest mediums of exchange and the primary path to liberty. He is even smarter than he appears. Plus, it is quick & easy to read.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  18. #75
    Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

    Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden.

    Since no individual can rightfully force his neighbor to transact or not to transact in certain medium of exchange, he cannot delegate such authority to his government. Also, free competition in currencies, by the force of Free Market, prevents the government from plundering the people through legalized counterfeiting and debasing of the currency.

    Therefore: the government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that the people are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent operation of private currencies, mints, or free competition in currencies among private citizens, nor charge capital gain, sales, or any other taxes, duties or fees on the medium of exchange. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 01-14-2011 at 12:52 PM.

  19. #76
    MSNBC: Fleckenstein: The Fed is Printing Money to Cover Bank Theft Leading to Food Price Inflation, and Unrest in the World

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...14080#41414080
    http://dailypaul.com/156169/fleckens...food-inflation

    Sound Money is the proposed solution.

    Sound Money is the solution:
    Implementing this amendment is the best way to accomplish it.
    http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewt...p?f=19&t=10942
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 02-09-2011 at 10:12 AM.

  20. #77
    One of the things I can not stand about the Stock Market is the idea of Derivatives and Hedges. Basically betting the value of the company goes down makes money for the Hedge investors. They also have a very funny way of giving the current fiat currency value by basing its value on itself, which turns into a round robin. People will try to do the same damn things in a Free Market because there is potential for profit so unless the value of an Honest Money System can be based completely and solely on material things (food, electronics, etc) and not immaterial things (abstract value of a company, not on what it produces) it wont work.

    The problem is that so many stocks are currently based on the fluxuating value of the fiat currency being exchanged, if we were to try to base the value of any form of currency on companies that create the fluxuation in the value of that currency, it gives all the power to control the value of the currency to those companies and not to the people, which is where it belongs.

    My understanding of the Stock Market flat out sucks, and I admit that. Things that I do understand that get sold on the Stock Market should not be used as the basis of value for a currency. The Stock Market doesnt just trade on ownership of a company and adjust values of stocks, it bets on stocks losing value, amongst other things, which results in a payout for someone else that owns those Hedge stocks, and how that works is completely beyond me. And yeah, I know Stock Market != Free Market. I just dont like the idea of Market Manipulation, regardless of the currency or competing currency.

    I still think that government should be the one to print the currency, and regulate the value thereof, interest free, because a functional government would not turn over that power to a private central bank. But what to base the value of the currency on, other than precious metals, I dont know and dont really have any good suggestions, but I know it shouldnt be based on something that can the value of the currency to fluxuate one iota, because that opens up the system for abuse.

    Competing Currencies, thats great, just make sure the government pays their bills with value only. The competing currencies can base their value on what ever of value that the government is required to pay in.

    Thinking out loud here, but maybe the solution to the problem isnt to allow the value of the currency to be a variable, but fix it and lock it down, and not even congress can have the power to change or regulate the value of the currency once it is set. Our biggest problem is that we turned over all the power to the private central bank, and I dont even think that god himself could fix the problem without pissing a lot of people off. People that have made fortunes by doing nothing but dicking with the value of money.

    The stock market has been so ripe for abuse that the fruit has spoiled and become rotten. None the less, I dont think we will ever be able to get rid of the idea of having some form of Stock Market, but setting the value of money on that just gives them a bigger piece of the prize.

    How did the stock market used to work prior to the introduction of the Fed?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    One of the things I can not stand about the Stock Market is the idea of Derivatives and Hedges.
    It is gambling. People like to gamble for some reason. I personally loathe gambling, but that's just me ... the casinos are always full.

    What I find interesting about real money is that when people trade honestly value for value, then most people would reject paying for needless wars, excessive government pensions and entitlements. In other words, government would starve and shrink to virtually nothing because people would resist much more if they actually saw first hand how much wealth was being stolen by paying 50 -> 60% of their gold/silver out of pocket rather than having it taken from them sleight-of-hand through inflation. The political process would die.

    And what would we do with our lives? Our entire culture, entertainment, our daily living is consumed with politics. Elections, regulations, registrations, licensing, police, wars, TV shows, radio, Internet news, and virtually everything we do is tied to politics. People's minds are consumed with politics... it gives us purpose.

    How would we spend our days if we could travel freely, if we could be as prosperous as this abundant world offers, if people weren't killing each other over differences of opinion/beliefs?

    General Politics is by far the most popular category even on these forums.
    • General Politics (187 Viewing)
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    • Civil Liberties (5 Viewing)
    • National Sovereignty (3 Viewing)
    • Economics & Sound Money (25 Viewing)
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    Last edited by Travlyr; 02-09-2011 at 07:35 AM.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  22. #79
    And like casinos, it isnt ever the machines themselves that are rigged, the idea of profit in a casino is hidden in the payout rates. Casinos have been popping up in every state for a while now so I figure that a lot of people are now able to see right through their schemes. They promise 99% payback or what ever it is for said particular casino or even down to each individual game is all based on the mathematical statistics, so according to the statistics of winnings, only one percent is taken out of your original investment on every spin of the wheel or throw of the die.

    Gambling is gambling, but I think the idea of gambling with peoples futures and livelyhood by force is part of what got us to dig our holes even deeper. Now sure, if you buy a stock in some company, its like loaning that money, and they pay it back based on how well the company does. Loaning I dont have a problem with. Paying out interest, yeah, I think there is a problem there. Positive Interest is always good for them, likewise, they dont want to see the value of their companies go down. People will always want all of the benefits with none of the risks. So they are told to put their money into the stock market and "leave it there". And why wouldnt they? Putting money into a savings account that accrues 0.000000001% interest each month, but a person has to pay $10 monthly savings "fee" every month, just putting ones money into a savings acct does jack $#@!. And I think people are completely spoiled rotten by the idea of money working for itself.

    People seem to be in love with the idea of putting money into some sort of account and letting it grow like it is a naked horny supermodel come to life. Banks make their money by loaning out money they dont have, and paying interest on the loans from the people. But WE were the original ones that made the original loans to the banks by putting 98% of our currency into them. Then they turned around and loaned us back the money we orignally gave them. People become angry when their money goes away and riot with lit torches and pitchforks ready to burn the hot and horny supermodel at the stake for doing exactly what the word horny implies that it was supposed to do from the start, which is to screw you.

    But had we not put our money in the bank to begin with, we would never have gotten this far. First, we agreed that gold and silver should be used as a standard world wide currency because it could be spent anywhere. But not everyone had gold. Some people did and some people didnt. A few of those that did may have gotten the idea of loaning out their gold at interest. But our gold was heavy and physically cumbersome, and it could be stolen from one person by another person. We didnt have standing armies to protect the little heavy gold we had that weighed down our pockets. We couldnt afford to. And the idea of a "protector of gold" was born. A bank. Multiple people could store their gold someplace safer than their pockets, pouches, or purses.

    The story splits into two branches here. One way follows how people started exchanging their gold recipts as if it were the real gold. The other branch follows the Banker and the idea that the gold was protected from all except those already inside. A crafty banker realized at some point that if people had him store their gold, he could loan out gold that did not belong to him, and collect interest on it. The two branches merge back together as the banker has a stroke of genius when the idea that he could write legal loans and give the person paper and collect interest on the paper as if it were real gold. I think the two ideas happened nearly at the same time because the scam went on for quite a while. There had to be some gold in there, so although it was being loaned out, it wasnt actually coming out of the banks coffers, much like today. People would put more gold in and take out paper recipts, so there was usually a surplus of gold in the vault. When people caught on, they were angry, but the consequences did not turn out as one would expect. The Banker offered the people that loaned their money to the bank to profit from the interest that the banks were charging to the people that they made loaned to.

    What really happened was that the banks wrote out more gold recipts than they had. The first gold recipt was the first fiat currency. If there was always gold to back the recipt, the gold recipt was not fiat. This may not have been completely their fault. When a person makes a withdraw in actual gold, that gold no longer exists to loan against. In order to make sure the gold recipts do not represent something that is not in the bank, depending on the size of the withdraw (or redaction of a loan to the bank), the bank would have to pass that on to their loan customers, probably in the form of a loan call, where the bank calls in for the entire ammt of the loan to be repaid immediately. If the person that had taken out the loan is unable to pay, the bank is unable to destroy the corresponding gold recipts and the currency becomes fiat, as it does not represent what exists. This idea is also very small scale, but even at this scale, there will always be fiat currency, even if it is for a brief time.

    There is a certain ammt of time that it takes between when a person makes a withdraw from their "savings" (remember, I am calling that a public loan to the bank), and the ammt of time that it takes for the bank to collect the recipts back from their other loan customers. During that period of time, before, the gold recipts can physically be destroyed (burn the note I guess) more notes exist than the bank has gold to back. This is acceptable, even to me, as long as the system can rebalance itself. And I dont think the banks should have to wait for payments from their loan customers to destroy a proportional ammt of gold recipts. Banks make the most profit by loaning out as many gold recipts as possible, so the gold recipts are usually not even in the bank to begin with.

    The other important idea here is that this is also the first time that debt was introduced into the mathematical equation. The first non interest free loan was the first form of inflation. It isnt just the total of gold vs the total gold recipts that has to be balanced. In my book, even on a very small scale, think of 3 people. A saver who makes the original loan to the bank, the bank that loans out the savers gold, in the form of a gold recipt, and the loan recipient. When interest is applied to the loan, more debt now exists than gold. On this scale it isnt bad, but in order to rebalance the equation, perpetual growth is required. The loan has to be repaid with interest on gold that never belonged to the bank. For a minute, make the idea of interest illegal and out of the picture. In fact, expand it to include all forms of fees or methods by which the bank can make a profit. The bank is no longer profitable and the only money it is allowed to collect is the orginal loan value. Now think of how the equation works. The total number of gold recipts is exactly equal to the total ammt of gold loaned to the bank which is also exactly equal to the total ammt of debt owed to the bank, and indirectly, to the original person that made the original loan to the bank. Upset anything in this trifecta, and the system becomes unstable, and requires perpetual growth to be sustained.

    Gold Total == Gold Recipt Total == Debt Total

    Profit can only result from the unbalancing of this equation, but unfortunately, if the bank makes no profit, they have no way of affording the protection of the gold. There is one possible method that this could work, but it is also unrealistic in todays corrupt world. And that is for the Goverment to be the Bank. Interest Free Loans ONLY. I cant seem to come up with a way to allow Fractional Reserve Banking into the picture without it upsetting the equation by making the value of currency a variable and not a constant. Fractional Reserve Banking was introduced to further unbalance the equation, and is a smoke and mirrors game designed to hide the fact that through banking, more debt has been created than. Fractional Reserve Banking must be completely prohibited, even by the government, as well as interest.

    Because of the fact that more debt has been created than can ever be repaid, through Fractional Reserve Lending Practices, Interest, and Bank Fees, I think the only thing that can save us is a complete and total DEBT RESET. It has NEVER happened in the history of all mankind to the best of my knowledge. Im also trying to think hard on how not to use gold (mostly because Fort Knox is empty) and put the value of the currency on something else. To me, the Free Market idea wont work because it creates a Round Robin loop which causes the value of the currency to be based upon itself. But the value of the currency has to be set in stone on something of value. Debt does have value, but only has value to Bankers. In my simple little brainfart of an idea, three things determine the value of the currency. #1 The ammount of the thing of value in existence in the banking system, the proportion of paper or digital notes that reflect the thing of value (which should be 1:1), and the total ammount of debt. Increase the debt to a level higher than there exists total currency and total thing of value (avoiding gold) and the system is unbalanced, which paves the road for both profit and loss. One persons profit is another persons loss.

    Imagine a bar stool with three legs, if one of the legs of the bar stool is a litte bit longer than the other two, the bar stool doesnt immediately fall over, the extra weight is distributed to the other two legs, but as the inbalance grows, it can only go so far before it reaches a point where it can be lightly pushed either way. If the length of the three legs of the bar stool are equal, and the debt leg is being propped up, if whatever is propping up the debt leg is removed, the bar stool can still remain precariously balanced. It takes a push to send the bar stool either way, and it can be something as small as blowing on it. It can fall one way or the other. One way the bar stool can crash down is on to the debt leg, and it slams, and may still rebalance itself and remain standing (Debt Reset), but a very light nudge in the opposite direction causes the bar stool to fall completely over and the debt leg is completely on top of the other two legs.

    A lot of this is thinking out loud, and I've already revised this a bunch of times for ideas that just dont pan out. But this idea of Debt Reset is sticking. One of the things that I think people will immediately misunderstand about a Debt Reset is that all debt is eliminated and we act like it never happened. Yeah, and I am ok with that, in fact, I love that idea so much I think I'll get married to it! But think of the Bar Stool Economy for a second. If the debt leg comes crashing down, the bar stool can still fall over, but if the debt is let out a little more slowly, down to the point where the total debt is about equal to the total ammt of currency, then we should have a rock solid foundation on which we can build even higher. That is what the Debt Reset needs to be able to do. Even if we do have ourselves the absolute perfect and infallable Honest Money System, it still wont work unless we can rebalance the debt with the total currency and whatever that currency represents as value.

    There are some tricks with weights that can be used to heavily manipulate the tipping point of the bar stool. Think of a high wire act for a second. A guy standing on a high wire with a big long poll which is adusting his center of gravity. The further that the ends of that poll dip down, the further that the guy can lean side to side and not fall. Imagine this as the way that debt is currently being used. Both sides of the poll bend down with the weight of debt. If the debt enough on both sides of the poll, the walker can lean pretty far one way or the other and not fall. In fact, the tightrope walker can lean much further side to side than he can if he isnt being counterbalanced by the weights. Now imagine that the debt on one side of the poll represents money, because in todays world money = debt. No debt means no money. But the versa is not true. No Money does NOT mean that no Debt exists. So it still kind of works with both sides being debt. One side is debt money, the other side is just flat out debt. And all the debt money is going to try to pay off the total debt, which just continues to grow and grow and grow. One of two things can happen here. The guy falls off the debt debt side, or the tightrope snaps. Either way, the guy falls to his death at the same rate.

    The big point about this entire hemmoroid of a post is BALANCE and what we are balancing. Its not about gold or the history of gold, its not about how the banks $#@! everyone at every available opportunity, it is about creating a system that is designed to maintain balance. If we can not correct the biggest problem that more debt exists than money, then we will not be able to put our bar stool economy on stable ground and it will fall over just the same. I think that one of the reasons that no other nation has been able to do what the United States has done is because we started with a clean slate. Level Ground upon which our Bar Stool Economy has rested. But now the weight on that bar stool economy has deformed the very ground upon which it rests and thus putting the foundation of a new economy on unlevel ground is to start unbalanced to begin with.

    Thus, the big question remains. What else besides Gold or other precious metals can we use to base an entire Honest Money System on, that is not subject to a variable degree of value or methods of inbalance?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Thus, the big question remains. What else besides Gold or other precious metals can we use to base an entire Honest Money System on, that is not subject to a variable degree of value or methods of inbalance?
    Interesting post.

    Here is the way I see it:
    Life is an inherent natural right. Since air, water, and food are fundamental to life, then air, water, and land are birthrights. Land, water, and air should be divvied up between the people without obligation.

    Since all wealth comes from the earth, then landowners can become wealthy (wealthy meaning having more than subsistence). Some landowners have precious minerals or oil, while others have preferred location, and still others have fertile land to grow food, wood, hemp, etc. When landowners produce more than they need, they become wealthy. Then they can trade, or barter, their excess goods for someone else's excess goods.

    Now, since bartering is cumbersome, then a medium-of-exchange can be a better alternative. I like silver because it is a rare useful metal. So I would probably require people to bring silver to my office if they want what I have. Now, you may prefer gold, paper, or a promise in exchange for your goods ... it makes no difference to me ... you might even prefer chickens, or pretty rocks. Currently, legal tender laws make these competing currencies very difficult to exchange for goods, and it shouldn't be that way.

    Separation of State and Money
    is as fundamental to freedom as Separation of State and Religion. The State has no business requiring me in what to believe or use for trade.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    To me, the Free Market idea wont work because it creates a Round Robin loop which causes the value of the currency to be based upon itself. But the value of the currency has to be set in stone on something of value.
    You are wrong. In a Free Market the value of the currency is derived the same way how the value of cars or of milk is derived, because in a Free Market, currency or money, is just another product. That’s all. You do not require the value of cars to be set in stone, nor the price of milk. Yes it is beneficial if whatever we use for money has a stable value i.e. stable purchasing power. That is why 100% gold, silver, or some other precious commodity will win the Free Competition of currencies, because 100% commodity based currency is the most stable and honest monetary system KNOWN TO MAN. (Nothing better has yet been invented!) Even Jesus said: “I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed...”

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    it is about creating a system that is designed to maintain balance.
    Exactly, that system is called the Free Market. Unstable currencies will die, just like bad cars or lousy TV sets, or spoiled milk. Free Market will KILL unstable currencies.
    Free Market is Freedom expressed in economic sphere. It is improper government FORCE that created the problem, and it is Freedom, (i.e. removal of improper government force), that will fix it. That is the whole point of this amendment.
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 02-09-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  26. #82
    To me it seems that a Free Market is the effect of having an Honest Money System, not the cause of it. If the money system is not balanced, how can the market be free?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    To me it seems that a Free Market is the effect of having an Honest Money System, not the cause of it. If the money system is not balanced, how can the market be free?
    Laissez-faire free-markets are self-regulating which keeps them in balance. Let the best product win & keep winning until some other product aces it ... so to speak.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    To me it seems that a Free Market is the effect of having an Honest Money System, not the cause of it. If the money system is not balanced, how can the market be free?
    You are right, truly Free Market cannot exist without an honest currency. But it was government coercion that forced fiat money fraud upon us; therefore, let us remove the improper government force from the relm of money, and allow free competition in currencies; then fiat will die, and the most honest and the most stable monetary system prevail, because it will be the preference of most people (no government force required). Freedom is truly magnificent!

    As Frederic Bastiat put it:
    May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.

    --Frederic Bastiat (1801 to 1850)
    Last edited by Foundation_Of_Liberty; 02-09-2011 at 06:45 PM.

  29. #85
    G. Edward Griffin on Free Markets

    http://alt-market.com/articles/griffinfreemarkets

    "The most direct way to break the fiat money monopoly would be to repeal the Legal Tender law. If competition were allowed in the marketplace, people could trade in units of anything they wish that has real value. Gold is an example of a tangible unit of trade, meaning that the value is contained within the item itself, but anything could be used so long as people are free to accept it or reject it, even chocolate bars or tickets to Disneyland. Mr. Griffin is a supporter of gold and gold-backed money, which are really the same thing. Gold-backed currency is not the same thing as a gold standard; a gold standard is when the government sets the value of gold instead of the free market."

  30. #86
    Ron Paul speaks of Free Competition in Currencies.


  31. #87

  32. #88
    Ron Paul on the Colbert Report - April 25, 2011 - Talks about Sound Money!

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...-2011/ron-paul



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  34. #89
    I like this article because it give Free Competition in Currencies as the true solution to restoring and maintaining a sound and honest monetary system.



    Courtesy of Christian Science Monitor:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Th...-End.-The.-Fed.

    Three words to fix our monetary system: End. The. Fed.
    The Federal Reserve's easy money policies are leading to tumultuous markets. Something drastic should be done.
    By Joel Bowman, Guest blogger / April 25, 2011

    Choppy week in the markets, wouldn’t you say? Gap down one day, gap up the next. That’s what you get when the tub is full of Fed-faked funny-money. Bigger waves…more tumult…less predictability. And a whole lotta motion sickness along the way.

    Markets are always and forever in a process of price discovery, torn between demand for lower prices from buyers on one side, and the profit motive from sellers on the other. Somewhere in the middle, the two parties will come together to exchange their goods and services. In other words, they “discover” an agreeable price at which everyone finds value. This is what the free market does naturally. Low prices invite demand…driving prices higher. High prices invite competition (supply)…driving prices lower.
    Obviously, therefore, you expect a bit of movement, a bit of price fluctuation as buyers and sellers jostle for position. What you don’t expect is multi-hundred point daily swings in the stock markets. You don’t expect gold to jump $20, $30 or more in a 24-hour period. (Remember, before FDR confiscated all the gold in the land back in 1933, an ounce of gold was only “worth” $20. More correctly, a dollar was worth 1/20th an ounce of gold. Then, in one fell swoop, the original New Dealer “revalued” the metal to $35 an ounce, thereby devaluing the dollar to 1/35th an ounce of gold.)
    The point is, a $20 or $30 movement in the price of gold back then would have been unthinkable (but for political strong-arming). Today, with the dollar having been beaten, bludgeoned and fisticuffed down to less than 1/1,500th an ounce of gold, twenty bucks here or there is hardly worth mentioning, such is the woeful state of the world’s leading fiat money.
    Of course, markets don’t demand fiat currencies. Free individuals don’t wake up one day and say to themselves, “Gee… Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an unquestionable, unaccountable, centrally controlled monopoly on counterfeiting to help debase our medium of exchange, saddle the populace with that most insidious of all taxes – inflation – and to sell our kiddies future down the drain? I know, let’s create a Federal Reserve!”
    Such institutions don’t come about “naturally.” They require political pull and the gun-for-rent that is the government. They take cover behind rooking legalese, as is found in “The Federal Reserve Act of 1913,” and the absurd prevarications of its “dual mandate,” which is, at present, sold to the terminally credulous public under the noble-sounding, though entirely erroneous mission statement of “price stability and maximum employment.”
    Anyone with a basic, non-Ivy League-approved understanding of economics knows this to be a ridiculous goal in the first place. For one, gold takes care of price stability itself. Has done for thousands of years. Price instability is the direct result of fiat monies and manipulation of the money supply by self-serving central banking cartels. From tulipmania to techmania, one can find, at the rotten heart of every inflationary crisis, a central banker with an equally rotten brain and/or heart.

    As for the “fetish of full employment,” as Henry Hazlitt so eloquently explains in his classic,Economics in One Lesson:
    “The progress of civilization has meant the reduction of employment, not its increase. It is because we have become increasingly wealthy as a nation that we have been able virtually to eliminate child labor, to remove the necessity of work for many of the aged and to make it [financially] unnecessary for millions of women to take jobs.
    “The real question,” continued Hazlitt, writing in 1946, “is not how many millions of jobs there will be in America ten years from now, but how much shall we produce, and what, in consequence, will be our standard of living?”
    The Fed is the work of Woodrow…a creature of Congress. As George F. Will, writing in The Post, once put it, mission creep is part of the “metabolic urge” of government agencies. The Fed is no different. It is an Ouroboros running out of tail on which to feed. There’s nothing free market about this beast, Fellow Reckoner…and nothing free market about the economy that stands on its sunken shoulders.
    Without space for competing currencies, the invisible hand is bound and cuffed, unable to feel around in the dark, to set reliable prices. Value is distorted, malinvestment promoted.
    In the end, you get unpredictable stock market volatility and a dollar shaved to within 1/1,500th of its life. Exactly what you’d expect, in other words.
    The solution? Here, a modest suggestion:
    End…The…Fed.
    Instead, allow competing banks to issue competing currencies. Allow the fundamental underpinning of an economy – it’s medium of exchange – to discover its own “fair value.” Witness competition weed out banks that lend imprudently and that rip off customers, to the favor of those operating with prudence and fiscal integrity. Watch institutions that choose to issue baseless, paper money go bust without federal bailout funds and those that adhere – freely, without let or hindrance – to a gold standard garner the public trust their thrift and judiciousness earns them.
    Wishful thinking, you say? Well, until such a time comes to pass, here’s another suggestion, courtesy of our Reckoner-in-Chief, Bill Bonner:
    “Buy gold. Be happy.”

  35. #90
    Forbes: Ben Bernanke’s Lone Positive Legacy: A Return To The Gold Standard

    http://blogs.forbes.com/billfrezza/2...gold-standard/

    The best way to return to gold standard is to allow free competition in currencies:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...onal-Amendment

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