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Well I couldn't support Obama financially or even with a vote, but I'm still sorta glad he beat McCain.. as aweful as Obama is, at least Dems are seeing that even Obama won't end the wars or battle the special interests. The smart ones should be seeking new solutions.
Some Republicans are seeing that the overseas wars aren't really Bush's wars, they are the establishment's wars. They also know they can't win with their 'tough on terror' message which will hopefully guide them back to the economy.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I recall those threads. Strategically, I advocated preventing a GOP incumbent in 2012. The neocon outrage over Obama was off the chain opposing such a strategy here at RPF in 2008. But if RP runs in 2012 they will be happy as hell there is no GOP incumbent.
I sure as hell could never have voted Obama (or McCain for that matter) not even with a gun to my head, but the poster has a point. Obama created the outrage that will help sweep liberty candidates into office and leave an opening for RP2012. I, too, said as much that if we are going to hell anyway we may as well go by the fastest boat possible so that we can get about the business of rebuilding properly once it all collapses. I still feel that way.
http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
+1 to this.Originally Posted by dannno
I tried explaining this to my mother the other day, that I'm almost glad Obama won... gave her an analogy (as poor as it may be, it was off the top of my head):
If a small rain cloud creeps up and it starts drizzling, you're really not going to be concerned, "oh, it's only a little drizzle, I won't get soaked or anything. At least it's not pouring!"... but if you stay outside long enough, you're gunna end up getting soaked... you'll either collect enough little drops to completely drench your clothes, or the amount of rainfall will steadily increase and you'll hardly notice until it's too late and it's pouring cats and dogs = McCain
But if you see dark clouds coming; the lightning and thunder starts going off; the wind picks up considerably; you look about a block down the road and can barely see the houses because the rain that is coming your way is so damn thick... then, what would you do? She said "run inside of the house"... exactly, you do something about it and don't just stand there = Obama
you are all brainwashed as to where your right come from...you believe a freaking document gives them? you are nuts. Where you were born on a certain plot of land.??? even more $#@!ing nuts.!! My right exists because I am a live and a person. I never signed no constitutions, consented to any government or statutory law. And now you are to tell me that "We" voted for it or "Our" constitutions says it. You people are raving lunatics...
I am not necessarily arguing here, but the Dems don't seem to care that Obama won't end the wars. As long as he keeps the government checks coming....they'll apparently sell their freaking Mom as long as they get money for nothing.
It's awfully hard to beat an incumbent president. Another 4 years of Obama could tip SCOTUS even farther left.
I don't think there was a win to be had in 2008.
Well that is why the birth certificate issue is so important...it's the only way to kick out justice Sotomayor and soon to be justice Kagan from the Supreme Court...an immigrant from Kenya has no constitutional authority to be nominating Supreme Court justices.
I think it's irrelevant. Whether or not we ever succeed in electing a libertarian president, through whatever strategies, it will be a short-lived victory unless the hearts and minds of the voting electorate are won over by our cause. Additionally, the surest way to elect a libertarian president is to win the hearts and minds of the electorate, and that is something you cannot succeed at if you compromise principle.
The philosophic battle needs to be won before the political landscape can change in any meaningful way.
It is impossible for you to predict the future and declare that a vote for one tyrannical monster or another will sway future elections in your favor. To think you *can* know such an outcome is sheer arrogance and idiocy. A vote is a personal endorsement. Always vote honestly.
Oy, we have birthers here?
When RPF members drop their mud.Originally Posted by damiengwa
voting is and utter act of public violence and should be prohitibited thats right dumb asses no voting! How wood society werk den u stoopid $#@! ball?
“It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan
best way to accomplish all of this is to......
START. IN. THE. STATES!
(sorry)
http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
You're right! 2010 is a game changing year.best way to accomplish all of this is to......
START. IN. THE. STATES!
(sorry)
I'm afraid even if the anger of the populace swings things in our direction, we have no solution for the Supreme Court.
Our response to the Supreme Court is wait 30 years for them to die.
McCain scared the crap out of me. I was concerned that he would invade Iran and several other countries as soon as he took office. How many countries can we invade and occupy before coalitions form to defend their borders? A coalition of countries including China and Russia could form if US foreign policy got too aggressive under McCain. I don’t want to see WWIII of US and England against everybody else.
I briefly considered voting for Obama out of concern for my kids. Thanks to George Bush, it wasn't a serious consideration. I wrote in Ron Paul and feel good that I did. It turns out that Obama is much more of a warmonger and corporate shill than he presented himself as in the campaign. I'm still concerned for my kids because of the debt and more blowback.
No "they" won't. Too often it seems like this crowd forgets that Ron Paul is a concession the Republican establishment has granted the (hell, i don't even know what to call it anymore) "libertarian" base.
It's all about victory. They're sorry they lost. It's as simple as that.
Last edited by constituent; 06-29-2010 at 08:15 AM.
Yep.
damiengwa:
Agreed, but guess what they think of "us." Oh wait, you can't.
Xenophage:
But in the meanwhile... I think what you're looking at right now with the allegedly "constitutionalist" "libertarian" "right" is a tiger by the tail scenario. In other words, no time to talk.
Where do we draw the line on "tyrannical monster?" How can "we" know when necessary compromises have forced "us" over that line?
I see people advocating for a lock down on the Rio Grande, and think they must be ill. Yet they call it "liberty."
What now?
Agreed. You don't see the contradiction?
Last edited by constituent; 06-29-2010 at 08:33 AM.
That is yet to be seen, but I hope you are right... that is, if the game changes to the favor of liberty.
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
Exactly correct. Where their minds go, their asses follow. This is demonstrated fact. And here, "philosophic battle" means the battle for attitude, posture, position, opinion. Without a sufficiently uniform foundation of thought, nothing but chaos reigns and not much changes for the better, if anything at all does. There is a very small set of fundamental values upon which we need agree in order to achieve a free and just nation. Sadly, far too many people allow petty bull$#@! and their hypocrisy to get in the way because they feel everyone should live as they say. The truly mind boggling aspect of this that they do not see their own flaws.
Agreed. People vote for what they see as the lesser of n-evils so they can say they "won". Just how insane is that? Vote your conscience. Hell, write yourself in for president if that's what it takes.It is impossible for you to predict the future and declare that a vote for one tyrannical monster or another will sway future elections in your favor. To think you *can* know such an outcome is sheer arrogance and idiocy. A vote is a personal endorsement. Always vote honestly.
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
Is this really so? I thought they held their seats upon their good behavior. That would imply they can be removed. In that case we remove them.
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
The philosophic battle needs to be won... for sure. And it deserves its own thread with that goal in mind. But it's really not all that mind boggling. Almost all of us are products of government schooling.
"Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul
Brother Jonathan
True it may be possible to remove them but I think that would require a vast majority of legislators.
I do not see us achieving this kind of majority in the federal government.
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