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Thread: Ron Paul Supporter Told by County Officials to "Remove Signs from vehicle"

  1. #1

    Exclamation Ron Paul Supporter Told by County Officials to "Remove Signs from vehicle"




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  3. #2
    The only way I think they can make the supporter remove any of the signs is if they are obstructing her view of the road.

    Other than that, they can't make him or her remove anything!!!

  4. #3
    Yes, I would seek legal council immediately.

  5. #4
    I'd advise them that I was going to fine them $1000 a day for trying to violate my civil liberties.

  6. #5
    The local governments DO NOT CARE about the law here in Florida. Even the laws that they pass around here are unconstitutional and they are constantly being struck down. Legislators and police in Florida don't care about your rights.

    Its like they told my friend after he got arrested for getting beat up by a bunch of thugs. Thats right, he got arrested for getting beat up. He asked what the charge was and they told him they would think of something to charge him with. He asked them if they were going to read him his rights. They told him "Shut up, you don't have any rights." He wanted to complain but then they would have made him go to court where it would be his word against theirs. So he just accepted some community service.
    Precinct 12 For Victory !!!
    *** Over 500 Served ***

  7. #6
    Find a professing libertarian lawyer, they will take this one up in a heartbeat.... maybe not even a libertarian.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernGuy15 View Post
    The only way I think they can make the supporter remove any of the signs is if they are obstructing her view of the road.

    Other than that, they can't make him or her remove anything!!!
    Agreed.

    The guy who was taking pics of her truck, pretending to be a RP supporter, sounded sketchy.

  9. #8
    Wow. When I first heard about the fine, I thought, "Ok, this is just passing silliness."

    But the part about the strange government-issue white car taking photos... man... that's really creepy.



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  11. #9
    Go to the ACLU. They love stuff like this.

  12. #10
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJG3GB4EXag

    Here's another one threatened with 1,000 a day fines if he didn't take down the signs on his own fence. There is no city ordinance banning political signs in Clear water Florida. A cop tresspassed to take down the first signs he had and admiited it later.

    The home owner put them up again, thiningk they were stolen, then he got the warning about the fines.

    Florida is soooooo corrupt.

  13. #11
    So, I've concluded that Pinellas County, Florida has nothing better to do than pass unnecessary and nit-picky ordinances to micromanage the lives of its residents and visitors.

    That aside, here's some information from the Pinellas County Code:

    Relevant definitions:

    Sec. 162-1. Definitions.

    The following words, terms and phrases, when used in this chapter, shall have the meanings ascribed to them in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:

    Advertising means any form of public announcement intended to aid, directly or indirectly, in the sale, use, or promotion of a product, commodity, service, activity, or entertainment.

    ***

    Political sign means any sign which constitutes a political advertisement, the primary purpose of which is related to the candidacy of any person for public office or any issue which has been submitted for referendum approval.

    ***

    Vehicle sign means a sign attached to or placed on a vehicle, including automobiles, trucks, boats, campers, and trailers, that is parked on or otherwise utilizing a public right-of-way, public property or on private property so as to be intended to be viewed from a vehicular right-of-way for the basic purpose of providing advertisement of products or services or directing people to a business or activity. This definition is not to be construed to include those signs that identify a firm or its principal products on a vehicle or such advertising devices as may be attached to and within the normal unaltered lines of the vehicle of a licensed transit carrier, when and during that period of time such vehicle is regularly and customarily used to traverse the public highways during the normal course of business.
    Exempt signs:

    Sec. 162-5. Exempt signs.

    The following types of signs are exempt from the permitting process and other provisions in this chapter, except those relating to construction, illumination, safety, nonconformity, and any other noted requirement:

    ***

    (2) Artwork.

    ***
    (11) Political signs. Political signs in residential districts shall not exceed six square feet in area per sign face; signs in nonresidential districts shall not exceed 32 square feet in area per sign face. The number of such signs shall be as authorized by the local government.

    (12) Real estate signs. Real estate signs in residential districts shall not exceed six square feet in area per sign face; signs in nonresidential districts shall not exceed 32 square feet in area per sign face. One such sign per saleable or leasable unit is permitted. Directional off-site real estate signs are permitted for a particular property only on those days when there is an open house. Waterfront parcels are permitted one real estate sign oriented toward the water in addition to the real estate signs permitted for nonwaterfront property. Saleable or leasable units fronting two or more streets are allowed the permitted real estate signs for each frontage, but these signs cannot be accumulated and used on one street in excess of that allowed for the saleable or leasable units based on that one street frontage. For parcels with over 500 feet of street frontage on one right-of-way, one additional real estate sign may be permitted.
    Bad signs:

    Sec. 162-6. Prohibited signs.

    The following types of signs are prohibited:

    ***

    (17) Temporary window signs in single-family residential districts.

    (18) Three-dimensional objects that are used as signs, except where provided for by specific authorization of the local government and in accordance with criteria of the local government.

    (19) Vehicle signs, as defined in this chapter, and portable trailer signs.

    (20) Any sign that is not specifically described or enumerated as permitted within the specific land use classifications in this chapter.
    Crime and Punishment:

    Sec. 162-40. Enforcement and penalties.

    (a) Local governments and their respective law enforcement officials shall bear the responsibility for the appropriate enforcement of this chapter in their respective jurisdictions.

    (b) Violations of this chapter are punishable as provided in section 134-8.

    (c) In addition to the penalties provided by subsection (b) of this section for violation of this chapter, any violation of this chapter shall be subject to appropriate civil action in the court of appropriate jurisdiction.
    Penalties:

    Sec. 134-8. General penalty; continuing violations.

    (a) In this section "violation of this Code" means:

    (1) Doing an act that is prohibited or made or declared unlawful, an offense or a misdemeanor by this Code or by rule or regulation authorized by this Code;

    (2) Failure to perform an act that is required to be performed by this Code or by rule or regulation authorized by this Code; or

    (3) Failure to perform an act if the failure is declared a misdemeanor or an offense or unlawful by this Code or by rule or regulation authorized by this Code.

    (b) In this section, "violation of this Code" does not include the failure of a county officer or county employee to perform an official duty unless it is provided that failure to perform the duty is to be punished as provided in this section.

    (c) Except as otherwise provided by law or ordinance, a person convicted of a violation of this Code shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $500.00. With respect to violations of this Code that are continuous with respect to time, each day the violation continues is a separate offense.

    (d) The imposition of a penalty does not prevent revocation or suspension of a license, permit or franchise, the imposition of civil fines or other administrative actions, including action pursuant to F.S. ch. 162.

    (e) The board of county commissioners is authorized and empowered to institute legal proceedings in the circuit court of the county for the purpose of obtaining injunctive relief and such other relief as may be proper under the law against violators of this Code. This remedy is in addition to all other remedies. The imposition of a penalty does not prevent equitable relief.
    Leaving aside the fact that this ordinance is not content neutral, and I believe wholly unconstitutional, it appears that "vehicle signs" are defined to encompass commercial advertising; read the definition of "advertising" above. This person's Ron Paul signs are not advertising, and therefore, do not fall under the prohibition relating to vehicle signs. Aside from that, they constitute exempt political signs.
    Last edited by bbachtung; 10-11-2007 at 08:39 PM.

  14. #12
    This is unbelievable. I'd keep the signs on the truck and take them to court if they fined me.

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  15. #13
    Come on people. They were obstructing her view in back. This is reasonable. He did tell her that the bumper stickers she had plastered all over it were OK.

    I am thinking she could have large magnetic signs on the sides of the vehicle and it wouldn't be an issue.
    We elect our own oppressors.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    Come on people. They were obstructing her view in back. This is reasonable. He did tell her that the bumper stickers she had plastered all over it were OK.

    I am thinking she could have large magnetic signs on the sides of the vehicle and it wouldn't be an issue.

    People drive vans that don't even have windows in the back. I used to do it for a living. You are not required to have a view in the back. This is not reasonable.

  17. #15
    Obstructing view? I guess having a cab on a pickup is obstructing there view as well and should be illegal? I just think its bs personally.
    "Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear — kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor — with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it."
    -- General Douglas MacArthur

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LizF View Post
    Agreed.

    The guy who was taking pics of her truck, pretending to be a RP supporter, sounded sketchy.
    That guy is a diehard RP supporter, he was interviewed on TV ages ago, and the video is on YouTube. You should check out his channel.

    I sent him a message through YouTube about advising them to contact the ACLU.

    I mentioned that we could probably get a chipin and now think we could probably find a nearby MeetUp that can get that fence painted, and maybe raise enough to paint the girl's truck too. It would make for some great publicity. Surely someone RP friendly has some pull at a local autobody shop.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnd View Post
    People drive vans that don't even have windows in the back. I used to do it for a living. You are not required to have a view in the back. This is not reasonable.
    The signs on her vehicle were not securely attached, and could sway in the wind or even fly off. Quite a distraction, and they could be unsafe. I have seen magnetic signs that can be stuck on the side of the vehicle. And again I say - he DID tell her the numerous bumper stickers were OK, so that sort of underscores my point.
    We elect our own oppressors.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    The signs on her vehicle were not securely attached, and could sway in the wind or even fly off. Quite a distraction, and they could be unsafe. I have seen magnetic signs that can be stuck on the side of the vehicle. And again I say - he DID tell her the numerous bumper stickers were OK, so that sort of underscores my point.
    And our point is that freedom really works, and that a sign attached to a truck is probably not going to knock down the towers.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by me3 View Post
    That guy is a diehard RP supporter, he was interviewed on TV ages ago, and the video is on YouTube. You should check out his channel.

    I sent him a message through YouTube about advising them to contact the ACLU.

    I mentioned that we could probably get a chipin and now think we could probably find a nearby MeetUp that can get that fence painted, and maybe raise enough to paint the girl's truck too. It would make for some great publicity. Surely someone RP friendly has some pull at a local autobody shop.

    To clarify: I didn't mean the guy who appeared in/during the video interviewing her/asking questions--that guy seemed perfectly ok.

    I meant the guy she was was talking about--the one who had been in the parked white car w/ yellow govt license plates, and who didn't know much about RP even though he claimed to be a supporter.

  23. #20

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by werdd View Post
    Find a professing libertarian lawyer,
    HA! That's very rare:

    1- The way law is taught in this country is almost always liberal, and I don't mean "classically liberal" either.

    2- Lawyers are to blame for MANY of the problems and bad laws in this country

    3- Lawyers naturally want to expand the law because they make their living off of the law. Every time a layperson has to do anything these days, an attorney is almost always required.

    End result - we should try to NOT elect lawyers to public office at all if possible.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  24. #21
    Jeb Bush anyone?

    I'm not suprised...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    The signs on her vehicle were not securely attached, and could sway in the wind or even fly off. Quite a distraction, and they could be unsafe. I have seen magnetic signs that can be stuck on the side of the vehicle. And again I say - he DID tell her the numerous bumper stickers were OK, so that sort of underscores my point.
    How do you know they were not securly attached?
    How do you know they flap in the wind?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    The signs on her vehicle were not securely attached, and could sway in the wind or even fly off. Quite a distraction, and they could be unsafe. I have seen magnetic signs that can be stuck on the side of the vehicle. And again I say - he DID tell her the numerous bumper stickers were OK, so that sort of underscores my point.
    When she talked about being approached, she wasn't driving. It's only a driving hazard, if you're driving.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    HA! That's very rare:

    1- The way law is taught in this country is almost always liberal, and I don't mean "classically liberal" either.
    Sad, but true.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshLowry View Post
    Yongrel can post whatever he wants as long as it isn't porn.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnd View Post
    How do you know they were not securly attached?
    How do you know they flap in the wind?
    You can see it in the video. They're tied with string. You know, sometimes cops are right.

    Besides, when Dr. Paul becomes President Paul, your state will be FREE to enact legislation allowing big, kite-sting secured signs on every vehicle, and I can work to outlaw them in my state. Gotta luv Federalism!
    We elect our own oppressors.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    They're tied with string. You know, sometimes cops are right.
    Whatever

  31. #27
    Oh God. Not string. Oh, the humanity.



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