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Thread: EXTREMELY DANGEROUS BILL! - This needs your calls to all your senators now! S. 3081

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    Exclamation EXTREMELY DANGEROUS BILL! - This needs your calls to all your senators now! S. 3081

    Dear god...

    Where are we going America?

    I called my senators and neither of the offices were aware of this bill and were both very disturbed upon looking it up while I spoke with them.

    BILL PDF ~ (RIGHT CLICK - SAVE AS)

    Co-Sponsors




    CALL YOUR SENATORS AND DEMAND THEY TAKE A POSITION ON THIS BILL

    S.3081: Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

    The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” introduced by Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman on Thursday with little fanfare, “sets out a comprehensive policy for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected enemy belligerents who are believed to have engaged in hostilities against the United States by requiring these individuals to be held in military custody, interrogated for their intelligence value and not provided with a Miranda warning,”

    The bill does not distinguish between U.S. citizens and non-citizens, and states that “suspected belligerents” who are “considered a “high-value detainee” shall not be provided with a Miranda warning.”

    A person is considered a “high value detainee” if they fulfill one of the following criteria.

    (1) poses a threat of an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the U.S. or U.S. facilities abroad; (2) poses a threat to U.S. military personnel or U.S. military facilities; (3) potential intelligence value; (4) is a member of al Qaeda or a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda or (5) such other matters as the President considers appropriate.

    Now that the Southern Poverty Law Center and the federal government, via the MIAC report and innumerable other leaked documents, now consider virtually anyone with a dissenting opinion against the state as “posing a threat,” millions of peaceful American citizens could be swept up by this frightening dragnet of tyranny.

    However, according to the bill, an individual doesn’t even have to pose a threat to be snatched, detained and interrogated – they can merely be deemed to be of “potential intelligence value” or come under the vague and sweeping mandate of “such other matters as the President considers appropriate”.

    This last designation hands Obama dictator powers to have any American citizen kidnapped, detained, and interrogated on a whim.

    The only proviso that even hints at some form of check or balance is the measure that states, “The High-Value Detainee Interrogation Team must make a preliminary determination whether the detainee is an unprivileged enemy belligerent within 48 hours of taking detainee into custody.”

    “The High-Value Detainee Interrogation Team must submit its determination to the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General after consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. The Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General make a final determination and report the determination to the President and the appropriate committees of Congress. In the case of any disagreement between the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General, the President will make the determination,” states the bill.

    The ACLU has expressed its vigorous opposition to the legislation, labeling it nothing less than a “direct attack on the Constitution”.

    “Indefinite detention flies in the face of American values and violates this country’s commitment to the rule of law,” states Laura W. Murphy, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

    Of course, such positions from the ACLU as well as Amnesty International will only be used as grist for the neo-con propaganda mill about how the bill ought to be passed in order to avoid being “soft on terrorists,” a piece of spin still being swallowed whole by millions of conservatives who are blissfully unaware of the fact that the apparatus of the war on terror is now being aimed squarely at politically active American citizens.

    “Torture, indefinite imprisonment, secret trials and limited staged hearings are the stuff of cheap dictatorships,” writes Ian McColgin. “They are the sort of idiocy we scorned in the Soviets, the Koreans and the Vietnamese. It is astonishing that we have senators and citizens even discussing this bill which is not a capitulation to terrorism – it’s the triumph of terrorism.”



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  3. #2
    Member jkr's Avatar
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    Traitors!

  4. #3

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    We are so close to midnight it isn't even funny...what do we do if they pass this thing? What is crossing the line?
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  5. #4

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    If they amend it to only apply to non-citizens I would be fine with it. I don't think we owe non-citizens the right to civilian trials in a jurisdiction they have never entered. With that said, I think they have a right to due process and should not be held indefinitely without a trial.

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    Member jkr's Avatar
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    can we fire or impeach these "people"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by driege View Post
    If they amend it to only apply to non-citizens I would be fine with it. I don't think we owe non-citizens the right to civilian trials in a jurisdiction they have never entered. With that said, I think they have a right to due process and should not be held indefinitely without a trial.
    Incarceration with representation!
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    Im surprised Imhofe is co-sponsoring this, he hates McCain.

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  11. #10
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    So, this is saying that U.S. citizens can be detained and transferred to the military system without due process for (3) potential intelligence value or (5) such other matters as the President deems appropriate. What are hostilities? Is us being pissed off at being squashed by taxes and regulation, "hostilities" as defined by Senators McCain and Lieberman?

    Well then, I hope...

    1.) Judge Napolitano does not have a seizure.

    2.) Liberals actually give a shit and realize what heinous legislation this is (but I doubt it).
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  12. #11

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    This is UnAmerican in concept and philosophy. Contrary to everything the Founders worked and fought for.
    I honestly don't know what else to say.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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  13. #12

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    The government already will kidnap you if they deem you a terrorist. Ask any gitmo detainee.

    If there is another terrorism law, that doesn't change anything.

  14. #13

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    John McCain and Joe Lieberman should be CENSURED for this!!!

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ducker View Post
    Im surprised Imhofe is co-sponsoring this, he hates McCain.
    I'm not. I watched him at the Iran Contra hearings. That man covers up some heavy shit, and is no doubt personally involved in it.

    edit. Oops, wrong guy (post clouded by anger). I was thinking of Inouye .
    This guy is still a serious warmonger.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 03-09-2010 at 08:02 AM. Reason: correction
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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    Member Bruno's Avatar
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    It was completely against the intention of our founders to provide the power to the president to arrest people that "he deems appropriate" to be arrested.

  17. #16
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    Alien & Sedition Acts?
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  18. #17

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    Thank you for the heads-up.

    I left a polite but firm voicemail on Senator Burr's voicemail. Will post here if I receive a reply back.
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  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    Traitors!
    Damn Straight!

    They should be the ones detained.

  21. #20

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    On this.



    They need to hear a resounding NO.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by driege View Post
    If they amend it to only apply to non-citizens I would be fine with it. I don't think we owe non-citizens the right to civilian trials in a jurisdiction they have never entered. With that said, I think they have a right to due process and should not be held indefinitely without a trial.
    All people are born with natural rights. They do gain nor lose them simply by not being a citizen of a particular country.

    p.s. Who defines your citizenship?
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    well... guess I will be seeing you guys at some federal detention facility because you know they are aiming this crap at people like us.
    "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
    designed to make of their victory,
    there would have been no surrender at
    Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
    Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
    I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
    with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870


  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmyprez_deo_vindice View Post
    well... guess I will be seeing you guys at some federal detention facility because you know they are aiming this crap at people like us.
    I doubt you will see me, but,,

    Article III

    If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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  25. #24

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    This bill is simply another sign that the establishment realizes they're running out of time. They're desperate as they almost saw Medina throw a wrench in their finely crafted machinery. The elections of 2010 don't forebode well for the establishment at all.

    Sure, this bill is very dangerous just like McCain's bill to regulate access to supplements.
    Truth Drives Me

  26. #25
    Constitutional Supporter rancher89's Avatar
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    No more rhetoric about enemy combatants, now it's down to enemy belligerents.

    We are so royally screwed.

    I have blasted to all my email lists. How did this not get picked up until today? He introduced this on Thursday????

    This is a scary scary bill.
    Liberty, of course, has her price in blood, if we do not suppport her when she is in trouble.

  27. #26

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    I am ashamed that my senator (wicker) is co-sponsoring this. I have contacted him with a very stern message. He also refused to support my requests for the senato audit the fed bill.
    I am more and more convinced that man is a dangerous creature and that power, whether vested in many or a few, is ever grasping, and like the grave, cries, 'Give, give.'

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  28. #27

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    It's the fifth one that worries me the most...... but there's nothing any of us can do to stop this.
    The things that matter in this country have been reduced in choice..... there are two political parties, there are a handful of insurance companies, six or seven information sources, BUT IF YOU WANT A BAGEL there are 23 flavors!
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  29. #28
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    I mean this thing is so ridiculous, I can't see how it could possibly be deemed Constitutional.

    What I do not get is this. If you are plotting something to harm fellow citizens and the gov't catches wind of it, then go arrest him and then try him! What is all this cloak'n dagger shit? That's what bothers me. THey have carte-blanche to just snatch people they don't like, and no one will ever know about it.

    Yes it is an extreme example, but this is $@(#ing America.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  30. #29

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    Liberals will understand this one.

    Solidarity!
    "Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out."- Andrew Jackson (The Guy on the 20)

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