Federal Immigration laws are unconstitutional

[LastoftheMohicans]

Where in the Constitution does the Federal Government get the power to pass immigration laws? If they are to be passed, it is a power reserved to the States.

I don't support immigration laws even if they were constitutional. I also believe that property rights should be protected. Nobody, immigrant or native, should be allowed to trespass. Without welfare (medical, education, and cash assistance), the immigration problem would disappear. The people who come here will be the people you would be happy to have as neighbors. If you can get politicians to enforce border laws, you can get them to enforce laws that prevent immigrants from getting on the dole

A person stepping across the border does not violate national sovereignty. Only a transnational government or a world government can do that. Borders only have political importance. They don't have economic importance.

[Dunedain]

In the Preamble to the Constitution, "provide for the common defense" means that the federal government would be responsible for protecting Americans from foreign invaders. Illegal immigrants are the responsibility of the federal government, but, being traitors to the nation, they have shirked their responsibility.

I'm sure liberals and communists are quite upset that the constitution does not help them with the immigration question. They would suddenly embrace the constitution on that point if it did.

[mrsat_98]

In the Preamble to the Constitution, "provide for the common defense" means that the federal government would be responsible for protecting Americans from foreign invaders. Illegal immigrants are the responsibility of the federal government, but, being traitors to the nation, they have shirked their responsibility.

I'm sure liberals and communists are quite upset that the constitution does not help them with the immigration question. They would suddenly embrace the constitution on that point if it did.

If the preamble meant anything we would not be murdering the posterity.

[LastoftheMohicans]

In the Preamble to the Constitution, "provide for the common defense" means that the federal government would be responsible for protecting Americans from foreign invaders. Illegal immigrants are the responsibility of the federal government, but, being traitors to the nation, they have shirked their responsibility.

I'm sure liberals and communists are quite upset that the constitution does not help them with the immigration question. They would suddenly embrace the constitution on that point if it did.

The Preamble only outlines what the Constitution is for. Where in the list of enumerated powers is the power to control immigration? Even if I were to concede that the Preamble had the force of law, immigrants are not an army. Any political power that they get is due to American politicians giving it to them. They are not invading and seizing power.

[The Patriot]

Article 1 Section 9
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Congress has the right to set an immigration policy after 1808. Also, under Article 1 Section 8 allows Congress to set a Naturalization policy. This together gives Congress the power to set an Immigration and Naturalization Policy.

[constituent]

Article 1 Section 9
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Congress has the right to set an immigration policy after 1808. Also, under Article 1 Section 8 allows Congress to set a Naturalization policy. This together gives Congress the power to set an Immigration and Naturalization Policy.

No, Article 1 Section 9 says that a "tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation..." not that congress can limit immigration after 1808.

...and the powers of congress are enumerated in Article 1 Section 8 anyway...

Your statement requires a leap in logic...

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[The Patriot]

No, Article 1 Section 9 says that a "tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation..." not that congress can limit immigration after 1808.

...and the powers of congress are enumerated in Article 1 Section 8 anyway...

Your statement requires a leap in logic...

I am taking no leap, you are just completely ignoring the fact that after 1808 the Congress has the right to prohibit Migration, not just importation. The bill just doesn't talk about importation.

[constituent]

I am taking no leap, you are just completely ignoring the fact that after 1808 the Congress has the right to prohibit Migration, not just importation. The bill just doesn't talk about importation.

One. MORE. Time.

The powers of Congress are enumerated in Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution, not Article 1 Section 9. The clause in Article 1 Section 9 doesn't say that congress has the right to prohibit migration after 1808... it says that it cannot limit it before 1808, but can levy taxes or duties.

Cannot limit before 1808, but can levy taxes or duties in Article 1 Section 9 ≠ Can limit after 1808 in Article 1 Section 8

Yes, you're taking a leap.

Now, if you would like to inform this debate a little, research why that little bit was included in Article 1 Section 9 in the first place. I don't know, but would love to find out.

[LastoftheMohicans]

Article 1 Section 9
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Congress has the right to set an immigration policy after 1808. Also, under Article 1 Section 8 allows Congress to set a Naturalization policy. This together gives Congress the power to set an Immigration and Naturalization Policy.

That power only extends to the immigration laws of the States that existed at the time, which was probably 14. The current immigration laws apply to all the States, and therefore are unconstitutional.

As far as Naturalization goes, that only concerns citizenship. I'm an advocate of free movement of people. I am most definitely not an advocate of immigrants becoming automatic citizens.

[The Patriot]

One. MORE. Time.

The powers of Congress are enumerated in Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution, not Article 1 Section 9. The clause in Article 1 Section 9 doesn't say that congress has the right to prohibit migration after 1808... it says that it cannot limit it before 1808, but can levy taxes or duties.

Cannot limit before 1808, but can levy taxes or duties in Article 1 Section 9 ≠ Can limit after 1808 in Article 1 Section 8

Yes, you're taking a leap.

Now, if you would like to inform this debate a little, research why that little bit was included in Article 1 Section 9 in the first place. I don't know, but would love to find out.

No, after 1808 the government does have the right to prohibit migration. They didn't have the power to do so before 1808, but as of 1808 that prohibition on the congress restricting migration is lifted.