bump
Reply With Quote
Site Information
About Us
- RonPaulForums.com is an independent grassroots outfit not officially connected to Ron Paul but dedicated to his mission. For more information see our Mission Statement.
bump
People are inherently selfish. <end of thread>
You are such a misanthrope. Reported.Originally Posted by AuH20
arguments against communism
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...inst+communism
We tried it here in America in 1607. Everyone practically died.
They switched to capitalism and everyone prospered..
And to throw a bone to your friend, any economic system will work if you have people that are willing to sacrifice and work hard towards its success.. communism worked for the Iroquois pretty well so it depends on whos doing it and why...
Does anyone else not check the dates on these things and go reading through the thread and then have that thought where you're like "Hey that's a good point, I wish I made it... wait, I DID"?
There are no crimes against people.
There are only crimes against the state.
And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.
the best argument against "communism" is to agree with it
it exists and cannot be ignored
I can die and leave all that I have to 100 stakeholders with equal claim
I can get together with 100 of my friends and come to acquire a huge tract of land, incredible tool, or the pettiest object in egalitarian fashion
what I should not be able to do...
is get together with 100 of my friends and strong arm, tax, or threaten a 101st unwilling man to join the scheme.
and since this is wrong for 100 men to do to mr 101 then it is equally wrong for a million men to do to mr million-and-one.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Here's the easiest one: Everywhere it's ever been tried, ever, has gone to $#@!.
If they come back with "well, the USSR wasn't "really" communism, so that argument is invalid," all you have to say is "the USA is not "really" capitalist either, in fact most of the ills you observe today are the result of the intrusion of government."
I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!
Andrew Jackson, 1834
Which planks of the Communist Manifesto, have NOT been implemented by the US Federal government?
I agree with this^ but I've found that the commie counter-argument is something along the lines of "back then they were more egalitarian than scientific. Thus, they lacked the knowledge to make a centrally planned economy work". SMFH.
Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.
The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control.
.
.DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!
.
.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)
May not be able to get thru to these type of people.
Key word is "may". High degree of probability. I think if you do plan on putting in the effort, you need to undestand how their minds work. By challenging the concept of Communism, you are triggering a "Challenge to their World View" in their minds, which results in something very similar to the five stages of Grief: Denial, Anger, Depression, Bargaining, and Acceptance. They are definitely in Denial. There are some ways that you "might win", but it involves some very strong manipulations that I question as being ethical, because effectively, it is Brainwashing. I dont like the idea of Brainwashing in order to win an argument. But if you are okay with that, then thats up to you.
I think I damn near deserve some -Rep for posting methods of of Brainwashing. I am not comfortable with the idea myself. The reason that I went ahead and posted it isnt just about the argument itself, but so that anyone who reads what I put in HIDE tags to better recognize true and intentional brainwashing techniques when someone else tries to do them to you. You will have a better chance of defending yourself and can decide without external manipulation what type of person you want to be.
Edit: Note - I just noticed this thread is old as $#@!. Either way, these methods should still be highly effective.
Last edited by DamianTV; 02-25-2016 at 05:47 PM.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
that doesnt hold up under real world examples... Communism works fine for some people... many indigenous tribes and aboriginals.. perhaps it has to do more so with feeling connected to a small tribe or village - like a family... but for whatever is shown to have been a disaster for the white man.
With a centrally planned economy youre basically arguing that one mind is better than more... but everybody knows multiple minds are better than one... the multiple minds collectively make the marketplace which determines whats best for society IMO.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
//
Last edited by cajuncocoa; 07-28-2016 at 01:14 PM.
Arguments against communism:
Cambodia
China
Somalia
Russia
Cuba
Zimbabwe
...
Did you want them ordered by lives lost, or by the intensity of the horror?
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
//
Last edited by cajuncocoa; 07-28-2016 at 01:14 PM.
Eek old thread oh well.
Communism requires you to care deeply about all the other people in your society.
The smallest government like entity we all experience that is supposed to function in a Communist manner (more or less) is the family unit. Essentially an ideal family should help each other according to their abilities, take what they need, and work for the betterment of the family unit! However, even in the family unit Communism fails at a remarkably high rate, either it ends in divorce, or one individual in the unit fails to contribute or one individual takes excessive resources, or a couple team up and take advantage of another member, or members.
So, if communism fails at a high rate in the smallest situation, where the individuals profess to "love" each other and some of the members of the family unit are the direct biological offspring of others in the same household. I fail to see how communism could ever work once you push that concept out to involve people you have never met. Seems bizarre. Small communities are the largest extent I could imagine a functioning "true" communist government working and even that will require a large amount of surveillance.
Communism is effectively expecting everyone to care about you as if you are a close relative or friend, and therefore they will honestly contribute to the "collective" well-being, as opposed to the reality to where they don't give a $#@! about Igor 2000 miles away, and really just would prefer to go home and watch tv even if that means Igor might miss a meal because they didn't "Contribute" what they could have that day.
So Communism will always require a high degree of oversight to make sure everyone is putting forth the effort required for the system to function, seeing they have nothing else really to drive them to contribute, as they won't get rich, they won't be banging hotties, and snorting coke off their ass if they are drowning in the benjamins, the girls won't be buying expensive clothes, or putting a nice pool in the backyard, the only motivation is the "glory of the state" and the "love" of your countrymen 99.99% of which you never met. You are still expected to work like you are inspired, you are supposed to care about your job even though it'll at best only improve your families situation slightly if at all, you will never have a lambo though.
So, there is no working for love as in supporting a family you love, and attempting to provide them a better life, and there is no working out of greed, as you'll never accumulate anything appreciably more than the next guy, sure some jobs will pay more than others I'd assume but not much. 80K versus 50K. Why bother, still can't get a lambo, good hookers cost 5K a night not to mention the cokeand little Billy will be getting free University if he wants it, the government provides free healthcare, the state will take care of those mentally ill that don't work, so why worry about it. You don't control any of that after all.
Last edited by RonPaulIsGreat; 02-27-2016 at 02:06 AM.
Quick question for everyone.
The US is no longer a Republic, and most certainly does not function as a Democracy. Jimmy Carter even called the US an Oligarchy with unlimited political bribery. We can probably express many traits of many different types of government, while actually being something else. For example, since we vote on some things, we have some characteristics of Democracy due to voting. We also express some characteristics of a Republic, but not one that supports the people in any way. We have Social Security, so we show some characteristics of Socialism. Fascism is basically described as the merger between Socialism and Corporatism. Our health care is a key example of Corporations running the govt, we have to pay out the ass for medical care and insurance and still get the short end of the stick because corporate profits are more important than the health of the people. We also express some forms of Communism. For me, it is really hard to say conclusively exactly what form of government we have in practice. I can say we are nearly totally corrupt, but that corruption could be applied to any form of label to any type of government also, so that doesnt help.
What form of government do you think the US most closely resembles?
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
fascist, bureaucratic, plutocratic, warring, marxist police-state kakistocracy?
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Well, you can travel from one State to another without a permit and a shakedown by the commandant. You don't have to apply for permission to change your tires and have them inspected to determine if they are indeed totally worthless. You don't stand in line half a day for moldy bread and rations. You don't have to take the job that they choose for you. You can use this forum. etc etc etc. It could definitely get a lot worse.
Its not even close to democratic.
If anything its completely Orwellian.
The fact y'all sing the national anthem at every event, the pledge of allegiance, the belief that America is the best and greatest country in the world, that it is the only country with 'freedom', that war is just something that is always happening and always will, the tight control over the media...
Except I don't think its a conspiracy, I just think its a cluster$#@! of bad beliefs and being too $#@!ing large.
Last edited by idiom; 02-26-2016 at 09:05 PM.
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
This, its more a disaster of people not giving a $#@! than anything else.
You can't buy a Tesla, an American made car, in seven states due to protectionism. Its illegal to import sugar. etc etc
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
lol
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
http://amroali.com/2016/05/kakistocr...d-unqualified/
No
I normally wonder if anyone will notice if I edit, two years later.
Marx was a paid agent of the Rothschilds, and NOT a Marxist.
Posting Permissions
Connect With Us