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Thread: Give me your best arguments against communism

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Quick question for everyone.

    The US is no longer a Republic, and most certainly does not function as a Democracy. Jimmy Carter even called the US an Oligarchy with unlimited political bribery. We can probably express many traits of many different types of government, while actually being something else. For example, since we vote on some things, we have some characteristics of Democracy due to voting. We also express some characteristics of a Republic, but not one that supports the people in any way. We have Social Security, so we show some characteristics of Socialism. Fascism is basically described as the merger between Socialism and Corporatism. Our health care is a key example of Corporations running the govt, we have to pay out the ass for medical care and insurance and still get the short end of the stick because corporate profits are more important than the health of the people. We also express some forms of Communism. For me, it is really hard to say conclusively exactly what form of government we have in practice. I can say we are nearly totally corrupt, but that corruption could be applied to any form of label to any type of government also, so that doesnt help.

    What form of government do you think the US most closely resembles?
    Oligarchy.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Quick question for everyone.

    The US is no longer a Republic, and most certainly does not function as a Democracy. Jimmy Carter even called the US an Oligarchy with unlimited political bribery. We can probably express many traits of many different types of government, while actually being something else. For example, since we vote on some things, we have some characteristics of Democracy due to voting. We also express some characteristics of a Republic, but not one that supports the people in any way. We have Social Security, so we show some characteristics of Socialism. Fascism is basically described as the merger between Socialism and Corporatism. Our health care is a key example of Corporations running the govt, we have to pay out the ass for medical care and insurance and still get the short end of the stick because corporate profits are more important than the health of the people. We also express some forms of Communism. For me, it is really hard to say conclusively exactly what form of government we have in practice. I can say we are nearly totally corrupt, but that corruption could be applied to any form of label to any type of government also, so that doesnt help.

    What form of government do you think the US most closely resembles?
    Kleptocracy?

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Kleptocracy?
    Oligarchy...
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  5. #94
    Kleptomaniacal Oligarchy?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I'm having an argument with a nitwit on another board. I need something beyond the obvious "freedom and liberty is better" argument. This person is practically a socialist...how can I get through?
    Ask him how a communist country is administered, ie how are things held in common? He will say the workers own the means of production. Ask him, then, if they are free to use those means at their own democratic pleasure? He should say yes. Then smash him with history. ie-So all those peasants that starved to death, they did so of their own volition? And the slaves in the Gulag, they were volunteers?


    He might retort: One failed example of a system doesn't condemn the system, or that such places were/are not actually communist. This is okay, because my defense of capitalism and liberty involves this argument. Allowing the other side to bring it up lends it additional credence.

    Alternatively you could just start rattling off Communist dictators and body counts. Or, draw on the many parallels of communism and national socialism (one hierarchy based on class, the other on race, but otherwise what's the real difference).

  7. #96
    //
    Last edited by cajuncocoa; 07-28-2016 at 01:15 PM.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Thanks, but my question was from 2010...that message board no longer exists so I can't respond to this nut job anymore.
    LOL, well sorry for that bump.

  10. #98
    //
    Last edited by cajuncocoa; 07-28-2016 at 01:15 PM.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Kleptomaniacal Oligarchy?
    +Rep!

    Plutocratic Kleptomaniacal Oligarchy.

  12. #100
    90% towards subjecting a country to communism - a central bank

  13. #101
    Ask him what he is personally doing to help his fellow man that he's so concerned about. Ask him why he is willing to take money from others instead of providing it himself. If he is providing and he is still concerned, then it's obvious he is not doing enough.

    And it you have his email, I will spam the liberal weakling.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecraftian4Paul View Post
    I hate debating today's self-described commies. They always try to weasel away by saying that every communist regime hasn't "really" been communist.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  15. #103
    The Ukrainian Famine




    The Great Famine in China




    The poverty rate in Venezuela is over 82% now. People are crawling through trash to find anything to eat. Soon they will go from edge of starvation to mass famine as in every Socialist country.









    That is what Communism looks like.

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Communism has achieved all it was designed to achieve: an expression of murder and theft that's palpable to the masses. Not so different from other forms of State; for example, in fascism and in communism, risks are democratized while rewards are centralized within a tyranny. In feudal times at least, damage to a lord's lands and peasants from foreign invasion meant he lost too, and even into the high middle ages kings and lords were expected to, you know, lead their armies or the conscripts would not fight. There was skin in the game.



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  18. #105
    Jordan Peterson Exposes the Postmodernist Agenda - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...dan-B-Peterson

  19. #106

  20. #107
    Give me your best arguments against communism

    It's full of communists?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  21. #108
    It doesn't work and a lot of people starve to death in the process.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  22. #109
    Nobody who matters has skin in the game.

  23. #110
    Zimbabwe.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  24. #111
    Communism is hegelian, same as National Socialism.

    Communism predicts that that capitalism will collapse because the Jews will end up with all the gold and everyone else will become proletariat.

    The proletariat isn't actually a thing, Marx invented it out of whole cloth. Working class people are capitalists too, which is why historically they have been able to accumulate capital and become middle class.

    The basis of capitalism is that you own yourself, to give it up you have to give up your bodily autonomy. Tell me how you feel about abortion again?

    The law of capital motion M > C > M' is basically incorrect.

    A student at university. are they CMC or MCM? What are they even doing if humans are not capital and all labour is indistinguishable?
    Last edited by idiom; 08-30-2018 at 05:51 AM.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Communism is hegelian, same as National Socialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post


    Communism predicts that that capitalism will collapse because the Jews will end up with all the gold and everyone else will become proletariat.


    The proletariat isn't actually a thing, Marx invented it out of whole cloth. Working class people are capitalists too, which is why historically they have been able to accumulate capital and become middle class.


    The basis of capitalism is that you own yourself, to give it up you have to give up your bodily autonomy. Tell me how you feel about abortion again?


    The law of capital motion M > C > M' is basically incorrect.


    A student at university. are they CMC or MCM? What are they even doing if humans are not capital and all labour is indistinguishable?

    Idiom! Good to see you checking in. NZ’s in the news by the way as the primo bug-out spot de jour for all the Silicon Valley turtlenecks.



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    NZ’s in the news by the way as the primo bug-out spot de jour for all the Silicon Valley turtlenecks.
    This is not something you are supposed to discuss.

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Kleptomaniacal Oligarchy?
    But you repeat yourself. Like saying ATM machine.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    But you repeat yourself. Like saying ATM machine.
    You mean Automated Teller Machine Machine?

    Yes it is a repeat, but the two different words have different associations. Repeating hopefully allows the average idiot to make the connection that the two words are one in the same. Another good way to repeat something is Bank Fraud. Both are the same exact thing. Modern Banking IS Fraud.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    [FONT="][FONT="][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT="]Idiom! Good to see you checking in. NZ’s in the news by the way as the primo bug-out spot de jour for all the Silicon Valley turtlenecks.[/FONT]
    We just banned that. Find your own island.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  31. #117
    The stages:

    Stage 1: Communism or other version of socialism is set up in a wealthy capitalist country.
    Stage 2: Capital flees the country, but the good times roll for a time determined by the amount of pillaged wealth from the previous economic system.
    Stage 3: The good times end, and anybody who could have increased productivity is long gone. Free markets in the form of black or grey markets spring up.
    Stage 4: The government becomes tyrannical as they need enough jackboots to a) force people to work and b) protect the elites from the torches and pitchforks.
    Stage 5: the citizenry is degraded to the level of serf, and live only to provide luxuries to the elites, and are usually given enough to barely survive. Or not.
    Stage 6: Citizens get desperate and either overthrow the government or at least gain concessions and the elites are forced to move to some degree towards free markets.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    We just banned that. Find your own island.
    SRS? Did not know.


  33. #119

  34. #120
    Going to amend my earlier thoughts...

    dunno if I am crazy but Marx isn't nearly talking about the same economics as everyone else. As near as I can tell he is happy with capitalism's ability to produce wealth. Right at the beginning of Kapital though he separates wealth from value, although not clearly. His main study seems to be about how the way you spend your 24 hours each day places you in the social hierarchy.

    For example an automated factory produces wealth, but no value. It doesn't force negotiations between people about who does what. Value is a social currency, not gold or a price, although it can be arbitraged with gold.

    I have not heard many communists talk about this. Marx basically says wealth profits come from innovation, but he dismisses those. He doesn't seem to care at all about a businesses bottom line.


    Am I crazy? Am I taking crazy pills?

    I mean Schumpeter got creative destruction from Marx, and its a key point.

    Anybody here better read on Marx know where I am off?
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care



  35. Remove this section of ads by registering.
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