Winter Olympics Nationalism

[mediahasyou]

I dislike the strengthening of nationalism that comes through the Winter Olympics. Increased nationalism emotions can and has been used to murder millions through war. In addition, nationalism in the games has led to judging and voting frauds.

The individual athlete should be the focus of the games, not a collective.

[Son of Detroit]

[heavenlyboy34]

I dislike it too, but you should look at the olympics as the pinnacle of individual achievement in athletics. It's unfortunate that nationalism often overwhelms the spirit of the games, but it's easy to ignore it by not watching the commercials. In my experience, there's less nationalist chauvinism in the games than in the daily news.

edit: Just started watching on my local affiliate. Some kick ass action from everyone! Apollo Ono rocked as usual. Looking forward to freestyle snowboarding-especially if Shaun White made it back this year.

[nate895]

Why can't I possibly relish in both the achievement of the individual, and also the pride of having my country pummel the competition? You are presenting a false dichotomy if you assume that if you think the collective is important, the individual can't be. I think both are equally ultimate. Individuals define the collective, and the individual is meaningless apart from his/her association in the collective.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why can't I possibly relish in both the achievement of the individual, and also the pride of having my country pummel the competition? You are presenting a false dichotomy if you assume that if you think the collective is important, the individual can't be. I think both are equally ultimate. Individuals define the collective, and the individual is meaningless apart from his/her association in the collective.

Because "your country" doesn't do anything in the olympics-a group of individuals do. Feeling nationalistic pride in others' achievements is as absurd as city pride because your hometown team beat the "away" team. Besides, it's not good for your psyche to get into a nationalist fervor.

[nate895]

Because "your country" doesn't do anything in the olympics-a group of individuals do. Besides, it's not good for your psyche to get into a nationalist fervor.

Those individuals are defined, in part, by the fact they are representing the United States. I don't think you understand the epistemological problems that must result from your atomism. The individual cannot be known apart from the group of which he/she is a member.

The individual is defined, in great part, by the groups they are a part of. You can't know anything about anything else at all if you cannot know what unites it with the other things, and you cannot know anything if you do not know what distinguishes the individual.

[heavenlyboy34]

Those individuals are defined, in part, by the fact they are representing the United States. I don't think you understand the epistemological problems that must result from your atomism. The individual cannot be known apart from the group of which he/she is a member.

The individual is defined, in great part, by the groups they are a part of. You can't know anything about anything else at all if you cannot know what unites it with the other things, and you cannot know anything if you do not know what distinguishes the individual.

You make the classic mistake of conflating the need for the state with man's need for society. These are two entirely different things. Noone would deny that humans are social animals. Numerous studies show that humans do not develop properly without a stable society. This does not beget a need for nationalism-or even the nation-State.

[nate895]

You make the classic mistake of conflating the need for the state with man's need for society. These are two entirely different things. Noone would deny that humans are social animals. Numerous studies show that humans do not develop properly without a stable society. This does not beget a need for nationalism-or even the nation-State.

That wasn't what I was saying. Both you and mediahasyou are arguing that the individual is the ultimate, and I am saying that both the individual and the collective (the state being only one manifestation of the collective) are ultimate, otherwise knowledge is impossible.

[0zzy]

call me a nationalist, but I think the Olympics are good things.

[Bman]

There is nothing wrong with friendly competition. Saying that the Olympics is not a reason for Government is one thing, not understanding that people will always have a champion is another thing. Call it nationalism if you want but take note of this... If in high school you cheered for the opposing football team it is no wonder you got beat up and were not liked, and live with the fact that you are a fraud.

If the truth however happens to be that you just don't enjoy sports well then STFU and go do whatever it is you do.

I'll be happy for all winners, but I will feel pride for eveyone of them that came from the same country I did. It's just part of knowing who you are and where you come from.

[heavenlyboy34]

That wasn't what I was saying. Both you and mediahasyou are arguing that the individual is the ultimate, and I am saying that both the individual and the collective (the state being only one manifestation of the collective) are ultimate, otherwise knowledge is impossible.

I would agree that society is important to the health and general welfare of the individual, but not the State. Society and knowledge both predate the State by a LONG shot-several millenia, if memory serves.

[nate895]

I would agree that society is important to the health and general welfare of the individual, but not the State. Society and knowledge both predate the State by a LONG shot-several millenia, if memory serves.

Your talking about health and well-being, what I am talking about is a matter of ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology. You are granting the individual a higher ontology than the oneness of the collective, when both must be equally ultimate in order to make sense out of ethics, epistemology, and metaphysics. BTW, "society and knowledge" do not predate the state by that long in my worldview.