Not yet.Originally Posted by Omphfullas Zamboni
I'm still mulling things over, but I've been busy enough lately that my indecision hasn't really cost me anything.
Last edited by Mini-Me; 04-12-2010 at 08:05 PM. Reason: I just remembered that the past tense of "cost" is "cost."
I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?
I'm in the same position as you, only having a fuzzy memory of history class. Recently I took an interest in attempting to learn something, but the result wasn't that great. For example, I was never into politics at all until I discovered Ron Paul, so when I was suddenly bombarded with these new concepts like liberalism, conservatism, left/right wing, etc... I tried going to Wikipedia to learn what those concepts meant. I was immediately frustrated beyond belief, because just the descriptions of these concepts contained hundreds of words or concepts that I didn't understand. I'd click on these other words to figure out what they meant before continuing on with reading the first definition, but then the new definition contained hundreds of words in its description also that I didn't understand. What makes it even worse is that many of these Wikipedia pages are very lengthy. It's like a giant interconnected web of information. In order to understand one thing, I need to understand something else, and in order to understand that I need to know something else and on and on. I read enough to get a general idea of some definitions, but didn't understand a lot of what I read. I guess the best way to go about it would be to read as many interconnecting articles as I can, and then after I have a general idea of it all, go back and read it all over again using the new general knowledge I've already obtained and use it to pull more details and specifics out.
Does Anyone have Arnold Toynbee's unabridged "A Study of History" volumes?
I've been trying to find a complete set for a while and never have any luck.
"Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister
Off topic: There should be a book trading sub forum here. Most of us read the same books and it would save everyone a bunch of money. I know I have a ton of stuff I'd lend out or trade for something different.
Nope...I just did a search for him though, and it seems pretty fascinating. I can see why you're interested in it. I looked in a few of the usual places on line, but I haven't been able to find a full set of the unabridged volumes in physical or electronic form.
If you're interested in building your collection piecemeal though, I've found the following volumes for sale online:
Volume I ($29.00 + $3.95)
Volume II ($29.00 + $3.95)
Volume III ($26.00 + $3.95)
--- (Volume IV is missing)
Volume V ($29.00 + $3.95)
--- (Volume VI is missing)
Volumes VII, VIII, IX, and X together ($275.00)
Volume XI ($176.80...ouch)
--- (Volume XII is missing)
That will get you 8/12 of them for just over $400, or 9/12 for a little over $575. I'm not sure if that's helpful or not, but...
I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?
Thanks!! I'll check out those links today. At some point, I'm going to hit-up the rare book stores around the city and see if they have anything.
"Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister
http://labvirus.wordpress.com/2010/0...stace-mullins/
Murder By Injection
The World Order
The Secret Of The Federal Reserve
Last edited by Travlyr; 05-07-2010 at 11:20 AM. Reason: In the title: I meant find, not fine
If you want to expand your reach to world history, I highly recommend Richard Maybury's books.
Early Warning Report
"The argument that the two parties represent opposed ideals and policies, one of the Right and the other of the left, is a foolish idea. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound shifts in policy. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will still pursue the same policies."
Basic History of the United States by Clarence Carson
8 volumes
http://www.exodusbooks.com/category.aspx?id=5391
Very interesting! Thanks for letting me know about this one! This might be the first strongly anti-statist comprehensive/survey treatment I've seen.
I should ask, though: Did you just find this one, or are you recommending it after reading it? I ask because it seems like the most critical Amazon reviewer of multiple volumes, Michael Tozer, is actually pretty well-aligned with us politically...that doesn't bode too well when even someone who's largely an ally has issues with the slant. On the other hand, he kind of seems off his rocker in some of his reviews and comments anyway, so I should probably take his opinion with a grain of salt.
Last edited by Mini-Me; 08-20-2010 at 06:04 AM.
I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?
May I recommend taking notes...Writing down information is another way to create a "stimuli" moment or moments (depending on how much data one writes down).
Then write some more...
When a person can imprint information in more than one medium or use more than one sense, I have found that there is a better chance for it to stick. Of course, repetition can breed discipline, so repeat as necessary, then repeat some more.
As the son of a US government teacher (who retired this last year), in some ways, I was raised in a school environment. Our current education system is still in large part based upon Horace Mann's "Normal" schools that utilize post-napoleonic prussian seminary teaching methods.
In a nutshell, it separates knowledge into specific subjects and fails in large part to show the relative nature of information. Add to this the "linear" thought process that so many are taught to use, and one may understand that straightline cram & dumps that put the students mind into a form of gorge and puke.
My recommendation is to approach learning differently, and mix it up. Get out the dictionary and do dictionary circles in it to find the definition of words within the definition of the word you are defining (If you followed that complex sentence, then congrats...you pass the quiz today)
Before you go to bed, use that time to reflect on what happened that day, or go over some of your thoughts as to process them again.
To summarize:
Write it down...
Down cram & puke
Dictionary Circles
Mix it up
Reflection
Hope this helps...
The Constitution...So easy a Caveman should know it.
They also give some references to more thorough books you should read.
One note from what the OP wrote.
There is no unbiased sources. You have to discern where the writer is coming from and choose accordingly.
The wisdom of Swordy:
On bringing the troops home
On fighting corruption:
Fascism Defined
Come into chat some night... I am there just about every night and I am always up for historical discussion and I can help you fill in some of the gaps you might have.
"Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
designed to make of their victory,
there would have been no surrender at
Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870
OK, here is a start...420
my two cents only--k?
Scots life of napoleon
Versailles vs the Peace
the Patton papers volume 1 & 2
Phillip dru administrator
Secret destiny of America
Albert pikes morals and dogma
The plot to seize the white house
the 1953 congressional reece committee
moorer commission on the USS Liberty
Treason and The NWO Gurudas
Dark Alliance gary webb
Hope and Destiny first edition only
Okay guys, here's some backstory to provide some perspective about just how bad my situation is:
Back in high school, I really enjoyed my AP US History class, obtained a 5 on the exam, yada yada. The problem is, I cannot really remember a damn thing about US history. (I can't remember pretty much anything I ever learned in 17 years of K-college, actually.) Off the top of my head, I cannot even name the years that wars started or ended, let alone recall important details.
Part of this may have to do with becoming stupider over the years due to lack of exercise. Part of it is because I always gloss over details anyway without even attempting to memorize them for the long term. I'll read an article and literally ignore names, dates, etc. without the slightest thought, because on some subconscious level, I know they're irrelevant to the bigger picture and I'll forget them anyway. I come across relevant details and specifics, process them, analyze them with my strengths (which are not memorization but logic, insight, etc.), digest them to form conclusions about the bigger picture, and then absent-mindedly toss them away. Over time, even some of the big picture fades, and I'll use context clues as a crutch.
The first time I remember having this problem was some years back, when I was transforming from a neocon into a liberal, and I was trying to explain to neocon family members WHY the Patriot Act is so bad, what specific provisions violate the Fourth Amendment, etc. I realized that, while I was totally confident in my conclusion - since I had looked into the material so thoroughly - I couldn't readily recall anything off the top of my head to support my conclusion in argument. It's like I've taken Einstein's quote, "Never memorize what you can look up in books," to the literal extreme. For the record, I just Googled to get the exact wording, and - seriously, I'm not joking here - I already forgot it one sentence later. Apparently, I didn't consider the wording important enough to matter, only the main idea.
In any case, forgetting why I've come to certain conclusions makes it kind of difficult to substantiate them to myself, let alone to others. I'm supposedly an educated person, but I can't remember anything I was supposed to have learned. I've meant to make this post for perhaps a year or more, but only tonight have I gathered the courage to openly flaunt my sketchy historical memory.
__________________________________________________ ______________
Basically, I need to educate myself in US history again, literally from the ground up...and I want to do it right. That means I want a comprehensive resource that's as unbiased as possible. What books do you guys recommend, and why?
Obviously, I have some mental hurdles and awful study habits to overcome, but I won't be able to do this if I can't find material worth straining to really absorb. If I'm going to make the effort, I want material that's factual, scholarly, and actually worth the effort. I need something as comprehensive as a high school or college textbook should be, but for obvious reasons, I'm not going to bother hanging on every word of actual biased high school or college textbooks.
Sorry for the length of this post. I considered omitting the top section, but I wanted to stress just how much I need to relearn everything from the colonial era (or even beforehand) up to last week.All of US history will obviously not fit into a single volume, and I don't care about Thomas Jefferson's favorite color, but I'm kind of hoping for a nice multi-volume collection from the same set of authors that covers all of the highlights and serves as a serious adult-level alternative to high school/college texts. I guess I should provide bonus points for similar books on world history, as well.
Note: By the way, I looked through the book list in the History section of this thread, but from the titles, I'm not sure if any really fit my needs. This one looks somewhat promising, but I obviously can't limit myself to a history ending in 1828, either.
"Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912)
I feel like I could have written the first half of the OP. I often have a terrible time remembering specific details after awhile.
I am the spoon.
years ago.. and I mean in the 70's - my go to book just for dates of things was the NYS regents review book for American History. I even used it in college history at LSU. Not sure how biased it was because I was basically unmotivated and just squeeking by at the time.
Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,
The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!
Why don't you just get an AP US History study guide and work through it again?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ap+study+guide
I find the only way to really come to terms with the "original intent" of historic documents like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is to read them again and again like scripture.
Last edited by presence; 09-02-2015 at 08:36 PM.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Why not start with Tom Woods Liberty Classroom?
Here's the Constitutional History from Liberty Classroom
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videos...dao&vq=highres
Maybe some people would do better arguing in a more philosophical way based on sources like Bastiat. That doesn't really require remembering dates and names, but reasoning through the process of the market and government.
Of course, there will be a concern doing this because a history scholar may try to debunk you. What makes this worse is you don't even know if they person is accurate. They could be question you while their own information is inaccurate.
If that happens, you can decided to just shift gears, listen to their side, and say you'll lookup what they talked about. That doesn't feel like winning a debate, but you don't feel silly either. I've done this with a Liberal who thanked me for having Intellectual Honesty when I explained I basically don't know all the minor details.
Or go ahead and probe the history buffs information by asking questions based on your political philosophies or throw what you know of Bastiat off-hand at what they're saying. Don't let them get away with a reference they might not even know thoroughly.
One last thing I'll add is I'm not sure if most people really are up to remembering and arguing history and politics on the spot. This is what shows like Watters World feed on by talking to people in swim suits on the beach on college spring break when history and politics is the furthest thing from their minds.
This thread is from 2010.
I agree, though... First thing I thought of when I read the title. I'm going to end up taking his courses, actually. Ron Paul's too. I listened to one of Tom Woods' lectures on the matter and it was about what I would expect. An accurate telling of history without a talking down to the student. Most teachers would do well to adopt some of his teaching techniques.
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell
Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump
Yes but the OP is wearing a link to the thread in his signature line currently.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us