Campaign for Liberty publishing and promoting Anti-War book - Major Media Campaign

[Petar]

I'm sorry, this is ridiculous...

CFL releases good news, anti-CFL fanatics make senseless rude comments and come up with an equally senseless suggestion of a conspiracy theory, and the guy who makes light of the idiocy is the problem?

Gimme me a break, there are people who are here simply to destroy the CFL, and this righteous indignation shtick is getting very old very fast.

No one is going to be amused by this melodrama very much longer, so you might as well just can it.

[LibertyEagle]

Michael,

If the way Debbie was treated while she was over here yesterday answering questions is considered "class", I think we all have a much bigger problem than any stupid ad.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm sorry, this is ridiculous...

CFL releases good news, anti-CFL fanatics make senseless rude comments and come up with an equally senseless suggestion of a conspiracy theory, and the guy who makes light of the idiocy is the problem?

Gimme me a break, there are people who are here simply to destroy the CFL, and this righteous indignation shtick is getting very old very fast.

No one is going to be amused by this melodrama very much longer, so you might as well just can it.

The amount of people who may be here to "destroy" CfL is such a minority it is not worth mentioning. Especially if such mention is to try to deflect valid criticism.

The only people who have been amused by CfL's boneheaded mistake is our common enemies. Nystrom was traumatized, I've been thrown off my game at a critical time, thousands have been disillusioned. The gall of the CfL apologists continues to amaze me.

Please face the facts.

1 - CFl made a boneheaded move that stirred up a hornets nest
2 - CfL's response to the drama they have created was poor and insulting
3 - Due to the great disillusionment. CfL is now under a microscope
4 - This is CfL's fault alone.

Michael,

If the way Debbie was treated while she was over here yesterday answering questions is considered "class", I think we all have a much bigger problem than any stupid ad.

From what I saw, Debbie came out swinging. Besides, there is a huge difference in expectations of behavior from individuals who have been hurt by an institution, and apologists/representatives of the guilty party.

If a mob righteously descends on DC with pitchforks, is the correct response of the politician to focus on the few nutcases in the crowd and talk to everyone like they are nuts?

Or is it to respectfully talk to the (vast majority) with valid concerns and ignore the fringe?

[pacelli]

Paccelli said this book was some sort of "vectoring" and a PR Stunt

Nowhere in my post did I say that the book was a PR stunt.

My opinion is that the book itself is probably excellent, based on the segment of the first chapter that is currently available on the C4L website.

Since I apparently failed to appropriately communicate my opinions & beliefs about the TIMING OF THE ANNOUNCEMENT, I will state it succinctly: I believe that the C4L announced the release of this book in the midst of the Ken Buck controversy as an indirect way of saying, "Don't over-react to the Ken Buck ad, we're still focused on a non-interventionist foreign policy". Would you disagree with that? I don't believe my opinion is an assertion of a group of people working together to commit a crime (i.e. a conspiracy). Ron Paul himself said that the C4L is a political organization. Are they wrong for playing politics, or am I just wrong for pointing out a specific instance of the C4L playing politics?

Furthermore, nowhere did I suggest that Bruce Fein wrote the book in a weekend, as a PR stunt. While I'm sure Bruce Fein is capable of writing a book in a weekend, it amazes me the degree to which an elaborate game of "telephone" can occur when people neglect to read what is right in front of them. These kinds of accusations are a chain of assumptions made without facts, witnesses, or evidence.

While my comment on vectoring was an attempt at 'conspiratorial levity', as evidenced by the "" symbol, we now have self-proclaimed "social engineers" commenting on the issue at hand.

In an attempt to refuse to feed into the growing 'us v them' sentiment that currently exists on this forum, I will not respond to further inquiries regarding my previous post, nor my current post.

[LibertyEagle]

From what I saw, Debbie came out swinging. Besides, there is a huge difference in expectations of behavior from individuals who have been hurt by an institution, and apologists/representatives of the guilty party.

She did expose LLS for what she had done, yes, and she did so without personal insults. It needed to be done. Hell, Michael, how would you like it if someone had drug your name through the mud, without doing one iota of fact-checking and who didn't seem interested in doing any now, either? Seriously. She also seemed to spend a good deal of time here yesterday, answering misconceptions and innuendos, that had been spread around here by a couple of individuals.

If a mob righteously descends on DC with pitchforks, is the correct response of the politician to focus on the few nutcases in the crowd and talk to everyone like they are nuts?

Of course not. If she saw us as nuts, I doubt she would have spent so much time here yesterday.

Or is it to respectfully talk to the (vast majority) with valid concerns and ignore the fringe?

They should talk to everyone, in my opinion. And Michael, from what I have seen, I think they are trying. John Tate, Jesse Benton, Ronnie Paul and even Ron Paul himself. How can you say they are not trying? We still have some questions that need answering. Yes. I know Farmer is compiling a list that she is going to send to them, or post on their site.

Do we really need to be this hostile at this point? I mean, they aren't our enemies. And finally, if we want respect from people, we should also treat them with respect too.

[angelatc]

Very cool.

CFL isn't allowed to earn a profit as a 501, though, are they?

Non-profit doesn't mean they can't earn a profit. It basically means that earning a profit can't be their primary reason for existing, and that the coporation can't distribute the profit in the form of a dividend.

[ronpaulhawaii]

She did expose LLS for what she had done, yes, and she did so without personal insults. It needed to be done. Hell, Michael, how would you like it if someone had drug your name through the mud, without doing one iota of fact-checking and who didn't seem interested in doing any now, either? Seriously. She also seemed to spend a good deal of time here yesterday, answering misconceptions and innuendos, that had been spread around here by a couple of individuals.

IMO a CfL rep should have been assigned to every community in the r3VOLution and that these festering wounds should have been addressed long ago. Because they have let them fester for so long, it is to be expected to be messy as the pus drains.

Of course not. If she saw us as nuts, I doubt she would have spent so much time here yesterday.

That is not answering the hypothetical question I asked. Truth is that everything I have heard from CfL has been trying to deflect criticism, onto the entire membership, using a few un-diplomatic people on the internet...

When people makes a mistake that hurts those who trusted them, the correct tone is contriteness... I've yet to see that.

They should talk to everyone, in my opinion. And Michael, from what I have seen, I think they are trying. John Tate, Jesse Benton, Ronnie Paul and even Ron Paul himself. How can you say they are not trying? We still have some questions that need answering. Yes. I know Farmer is compiling a list that she is going to send to them, or post on their site.

All I have seen is damage control. That is understandable, being insulting with such damage control is unacceptable.

Do we really need to be this hostile at this point? I mean, they aren't our enemies. And finally, if we want respect from people, we should also treat them with respect too.

As long as I see people being disrespectful to people they have hurt, I will continue to call them out

[LibertyEagle]

IMO a CfL rep should have been assigned to every community in the r3VOLution and that these festering wounds should have been addressed long ago. Because they have let them fester for so long, it is to be expected to be messy as the pus drains.

A C4L rep IS in every community. That is largely what the C4L IS. They're called precinct leaders, county coordinators, etc.

Yes, I realize there are a lot of unhealed wounds left over from the campaign. I also doubt if many questions and things we all were pissed off about, can be answered by anyone other than Ron Paul.

That is not answering the hypothetical question I asked. Truth is that everything I have heard from CfL has been trying to deflect criticism, onto the entire membership, using a few un-diplomatic people on the internet...

It seems like you are implying that if anyone does not agree with the lynch mob persona that has been going on around here, that they somehow are C4L agents, or something. That is so beyond weird, I don't even know what else to say. Cowlesy is not a part of the lynch mob. Is he an agent too?

When people makes a mistake that hurts those who trusted them, the correct tone is contriteness... I've yet to see that.

I thought Tate's response sucked too. But, it seems to me, that we got that apology somewhere from the other 3 that also gave statements. Geez, Michael, do we need a public lynching, in order to move on? They accepted guilt, and rightly so. They said they would put in checks and balances so that it would not happen again. I am convinced that their intentions were good in this whole deal. I did NOT think that in the beginning, as I also was mad as hell. But, as more and more information has come out, I am no longer concerned about the ad deal.

All I have seen is damage control. That is understandable, being insulting with such damage control is unacceptable.

Sadly enough, the insulting that I have seen, has been coming from the grassroots.

As long as I see people being disrespectful to people they have hurt, I will continue to call them out

If you think that post of yours to Debbie was justified, well then, Michael, I really have nothing else to say. Because we are not on the same wavelength on this issue at all, apparently. I still 3> you though.

[LittleLightShining]

nvm

[Danke]

Tom Woods and I were discussing about how good it would be to see Bruce back on the scene again. We were both impressed with his speech at the R4R.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

[ronpaulhawaii]

A C4L rep IS in every community. That is largely what the C4L IS. They're called precinct leaders, county coordinators, etc.

This is a strawman. I said, every community in the r3VOLution, meaning online...

Yes, I realize there are a lot of unhealed wounds left over from the campaign. I also doubt if many questions and things we all were pissed off about, can be answered by anyone other than Ron Paul.

I disagree and think this has little to do with RP.

It seems like you are implying that if anyone does not agree with the lynch mob persona that has been going on around here, that they somehow are C4L agents, or something. That is so beyond weird, I don't even know what else to say. Cowlesy is not a part of the lynch mob. Is he an agent too?

You seem to imply that I am part of the "lynch mob", not only is this lamely using ad-hom, but if you look closely at every one of my posts you will see the error of such an assertion. The only thing I have done is stopped defending CfL.

I thought Tate's response sucked too. But, it seems to me, that we got that apology somewhere from the other 3 that also gave statements. Geez, Michael, do we need a public lynching, in order to move on? They accepted guilt, and rightly so. They said they would put in checks and balances so that it would not happen again. I am convinced that their intentions were good in this whole deal. I did NOT think that in the beginning, as I also was mad as hell. But, as more and more information has come out, I am no longer concerned about the ad deal.

They've said other things over the years that have turned out to be untrue. Why should I trust them now? Especially considering the trust I gave them bit me in the ass.

Sadly enough, the insulting that I have seen, has been coming from the grassroots.

GMAB, the outrage was justfied, the delayed response built the anger, the original response made the situation worse.

Are you really going to sit here and act like CfL wasn't being insulting? Debbie's deliberate and denigrating misspelling of newbitechs name was childish and provocative. As a rep for an institution asking for our support, she should have had more class.

]If you think that post of yours to Debbie was justified, well then, Michael, I really have nothing else to say. Because we are not on the same wavelength on this issue at all, apparently. I still 3> you though.

Yes, we are probably not on the same wavelength, as you were probably not hurt, as I have been, by the outrage that clogged my means of communications for a week while I have other things I need to be doing.

Walking a tightrope sucks sometimes

[LibertyEagle]

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

[Matt Collins]

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of you standing next to Bruce Fein that you could share with us, would you?

I WISH I did. But sadly I don't yet. However if I had the money to go to CPAC I would get one.

But rest assured, as soon as I get to meet Bruce again and snap a pic, I'll share it with you





.

[LibertyEagle]

This is a strawman. I said, every community in the r3VOLution, meaning online...

It's not a strawman. It's called a misunderstanding.

Well, then let's ask for an online person then. I thought part of Allison's job was to fill that role, though.

I disagree and think this has little to do with RP.

What we think doesn't really matter; what matters is the reality of the situation.

You seem to imply that I am part of the "lynch mob", not only is this lamely using ad-hom, but if you look closely at every one of my posts you will see the error of such an assertion. The only thing I have done is stopped defending CfL.

If you're not, I apologize. It appeared that you were pretty much in the same attack mode. I do think you were quite rude to Debbie, however.

They've said other things over the years that have turned out to be untrue. Why should I trust them now? Especially considering the trust I gave them bit me in the ass.

"Bit you in the ass"? You feel personally responsible for telling people to give them a chance and then somehow feel like you have egg on your face after this ad incident? Why? You didn't do it; they did. And after it's all said and done, it's not nearly as big a deal as we initially thought it was. At least, in my opinion. If people do not want to participate with them, then they shouldn't. There are plenty of other things to do.

GMAB, the outrage was justfied, the delayed response built the anger, the original response made the situation worse.

She offered to talk to you on the phone. How is that heinous? Please explain.

Are you really going to sit here and act like CfL wasn't being insulting?

If you're talking about overall, then, yes, I HATED Tates' response. It sucked and it came off as condescending. But, beyond that, no, I do not think they have been insulting. It wasn't too long after the incident that Allison came over here to answer what she could, in chat. Four C4L folks responded to our outrage and I honestly believe they tried their best to answer our questions.

Debbie's deliberate and denigrating misspelling of newbitechs name was childish and provocative. As a rep for an institution asking for our support, she should have had more class.

I already responded to this someplace else, but, no, I do not think she intended anything with calling newbitech, "newbi". As in "newbi" "tech". They apparently know each other, Michael. If I thought she was being intentionally insulting to him, then yes, I wouldn't like that either. But, I do not think that is what was going on. Not at all.

Yes, we are probably not on the same wavelength, as you were probably not hurt, as I have been, by the outrage that clogged my means of communications for a week while I have other things I need to be doing.

That's right, Michael, you are the only one who cares about the liberty movement. Come on now.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to clogging your means of communications, as I thought you were busy campaigning for Adam.

Walking a tightrope sucks sometimes

How we respond to this is each of our choices, but like my Daddy always said...

Ultimately, we have to get glad in the same pants we got mad in.

[ronpaulhawaii]

It's not a strawman. It's called a misunderstanding.

Well, then let's ask for an online person then. I thought part of Allison's job was to fill that role, though.

Fair enough. In case anyone is still unsure, pissing me off to this point is a bad idea. People that put me in a bad position, and abuse my trust, can expect ruthlessness in response to insult.

If you're not, I apologize. It appeared that you were pretty much in the same attack mode.

This indicates that you are looking at these things from a biased POV. Here is part of comment I posted on DP regarding the Benton Interview

My comment on the CfL blog, that ended up here and then into the blogosphere, was crafted to vent collective steam. It was very effective at that, as the the overwhelming amount of thank you notes/chats/calls received attests. Things were blowing up and I was actually doing CfL a favor. Since their mistake forced me into the position, I used the opportunity to "beat them up" over the organizational bait and switch.

At least that is settled

Onward and forward

"Bit you in the ass"? You feel personally responsible for telling people to give them a chance and then somehow feel like you have egg on your face after this ad incident? Why? You didn't do it; they did. And after it's all said and done, it's not nearly as big a deal as we initially thought it was. At least, in my opinion. If people do not want to participate with them, then they shouldn't. There are plenty of other things to do.

No, I am pissed off at 500 backed up emails in my primary account, 50 in my FB account, phone calls going to the Kokesh Campaign phone because the inbox on my phone is filled. And that is not even counting the calls I got a chance to answer. I have gotten these call from everywhere, including from some names Matt would drool over. I am still getting them...

Meanwhile, Kokesh had a moneybomb that I never got a chance to hit my list over, slim-jims to create, events to go to, CPAC to plan, etc. et friggin cetera

(grrrr....)

She offered to talk to you on the phone. How is that heinous? Please explain.

Heineous WTH

If you're talking about overall, then, yes, I HATED Tates' response. It sucked and it came off as condescending. But, beyond that, no, I do not think they have been insulting. It wasn't too long after the incident that Allison came over here to answer what she could, in chat. Four C4L folks responded to our outrage and I honestly believe they tried their best to answer our questions.

I have yet to see un-equivocated contriteness for a colossal blunder that was all on their shoulders.

I already responded to this someplace else, but, no, I do not think she intended anything with calling newbitech, "newbi". As in "newbi" "tech". They apparently know each other, Michael. If I thought she was being intentionally insulting to him, then yes, I wouldn't like that either. But, I do not think that is what was going on. Not at all.

I ain't buying it. It looked intentional to me. IIRC correctly, she spelled it "Newbie"

That's right, Michael, you are the only one who cares about the liberty movement. Come on now.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to clogging your means of communications, as I thought you were busy campaigning for Adam.

I was, until this colossal blunder that clogged my means of communication. And back the $%^^& off with your rolling of eyes.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. You want to be mad and you are. Go for it.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. And each one of us is responsible and accountable for our own behavior.

What are you talking about? What about the avalanche I have been buried under do you not understand?

What you seem to be saying is that my mistake was ever defending or promoting CfL. You're right, my mistake, wont make that again, especially since I am now being insulted by you

[tpreitzel]

I'm sorry, I forgot the proper response was to bow in your presence.

I have supported your rides too. But, you are no more or less important than anyone else. And each one of us is responsible and accountable for our own behavior.

Oh, please. Stop! RPH is absolutely 100% correct about the waste of time and embarassment that C4L's action and response has caused EVERYONE associated directly or indirectly with the organization.

[LibertyEagle]

What are you talking about? What about the avalanche I have been buried under do you not understand?

What you seem to be saying is that my mistake was ever defending or promoting CfL. Your right, my mistake, wont make that again, especially since I am now being insulted by you

Well, I do want to publicly apologize to you Michael for the crack I made in my last post.

Yes, I do understand that you are buried. But, whether or not you defend or promote C4L is your own business. i could care less. It's going to take all kinds of endeavors to win back our republic. We certainly cannot count on just one organization, regardless of what it is.

[Petar]

The amount of people who may be here to "destroy" CfL is such a minority it is not worth mentioning. Especially if such mention is to try to deflect valid criticism.

The only people who have been amused by CfL's boneheaded mistake is our common enemies. Nystrom was traumatized, I've been thrown off my game at a critical time, thousands have been disillusioned. The gall of the CfL apologists continues to amaze me.

Please face the facts.

1 - CFl made a boneheaded move that stirred up a hornets nest
2 - CfL's response to the drama they have created was poor and insulting
3 - Due to the great disillusionment. CfL is now under a microscope
4 - This is CfL's fault alone.

This board is probably loaded with people whose sole purpose is to turn this place into a total bedlam.

But, since none of us can prove how many of those types of people might be here exactly, we can only really comment on the behavior that is observable.

There are a lot of people here who only want to focus on the negativity surrounding this event, and refuse to see the overwhelming positivity that the CFL represents.

"Thrown off of your game"?

I'm sorry if maybe you lost balance and fell off of your bicycle, but maybe you should try exercising a bit more control over your emotions next time.

Everyone who cares about this movement was upset by this, but that is no excuse to just continuously fly off the handle.

For whose benefit do you think this display serves?

Non one with any sense at all is going to appreciate this much longer.

[ronpaulhawaii]

"Thrown off of your game"?

I'm sorry if maybe you lost balance and fell off of your bicycle, but maybe you should try exercising a bit more control over your emotions next time.

This highlights my point, rather than make a respectful comment, you need to throw an unwarrented jab in based on an erroneous assumption.

I was "thrown off my game" by an avalance of concern that I had no control over (other than turning off my phone, the Kokesh for Congress phone, my computer, basically turning my back on a lot of friends...)

It had little, to nothing, to do with emotions...

[Petar]

This highlights my point, rather than make a respectful comment, you need to throw an unwarrented jab in based on an erroneous assumption.

I was "thrown off my game" by an avalance of concern that I had no control over (other than turning off my phone, the Kokesh for Congress phone, my computer, basically turning my back on a lot of friends...)

It had little, to nothing, to do with emotions...

Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.

I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.

I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.

While I don't expect you to have seen everything I have, and know you haven't heard all that I have, please just take my words for it that I have explained this repeatedly both here and at DP. In fact, if one were to carefully reconstruct the timeline and content of my posting on this subject, they will see a much different picture than one I may be being looked down on for.

Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD

[Meatwasp]

Good for Bruce Fein.

[tpreitzel]

Well, in fairness, it's not like you were very specific about how exactly you were "thrown off your game".

Wrong. RPH has been VERY specific of the manner in which he was "thrown off his game". For various reasons, certain members have been ignoring or overlooking them.

I still think you were/are flying off of the handle over this, even if you did have to deal with a deluge of messages.

Maybe, you should spend a bit more time educating yourself on the facts before typing another word. Try searching followed by THOROUGH reading.

I think you need to learn how to stay calm and maintain a tempered and rational response to things like this in the future.

As a witness to many of these events in real-time, I'd retract this latter statement if I were you. What "things"? No, please don't answer as my question is purely rhetorical. Maybe, you're simply ignorant of the real "things" that might have agitated RPH, correct?

RPH doesn't need me to defend him, but you'd be wise to stop your current course of interrogation.

[Petar]

While I don't expect you to have seen everything I have, and know you haven't heard all that I have, please just take my words for it that I have explained this repeatedly both here and at DP. In fact, if one were to carefully reconstruct the timeline and content of my posting on this subject, they will see a much different picture than one I may be being looked down on for.

Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD

I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.

Wrong. RPH has been VERY specific of the manner in which he was "thrown off his game". For various reasons, certain members have been ignoring or overlooking them.


Maybe, you should spend a bit more time educating yourself on the facts before typing another word. Try searching followed by THOROUGH reading.


As a witness to many of these events in real-time, I'd retract this latter statement if I were you. What "things"? No, please don't answer as my question is purely rhetorical. Maybe, you're simply ignorant of the real "things" that might have agitated RPH, correct?

RPH doesn't need me to defend him, but you'd be wise to stop your current course of interrogation.

RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?

The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.

[tpreitzel]

I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.

Why you're searching for RPH's posts on this latest fiasco with the C4L, maybe you should search for mine as well. As RPH will stand by his remarks, so I stand by mine ... ALL OF THEM. Furthermore, I'm sure my remarks will continue to withstand the test of time regardless of your assertions otherwise.

RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.

What part of "try searching and reading THOROUGHLY" do you fail to comprehend? I'll even reiterate RPH's request that you try reading his remarks in chronological order before looking more ridiculous than you already do. Again, again, and again, maybe you don't have all the facts behind your biased perception of RPH "flying off the handle", eh? I'm sure if you repeat "flying off the handle" enough, some readers might eventually confuse emotion with "flying off the handle". Frankly, your irrational misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" speaks more unfavorably of you than RPH. * At various points, I was watching the posts flying back and forth with concomitant editing so the current record is only a partial view of the events as they transpired in real-time.

Actually, you're the one being irrational and petulant in your stubbornly ignorant, incessant needling.

So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?

So what? Your apparent LACK of emotion and callous indifference to the embarrassment and waste of time caused by C4L's blunder raises a BIG RED FLAG.

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I don't doubt that your posts are full of complaints about a deluge of messages, I simply don't believe that your absolute hostility towards the C4L has at all been justified.

What "absolute hostility"?

RPH was not specific about how he was "thrown off of his game" in the post that I was responding to.

Ah yes, so I'm expected to cite my entire post history on contentious issues to avoid your chastisment, lovely...

And just because I did not happen to notice him complaining about a deluge of messages in previous posts, does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L.

Hmmm... that seems a bit hard to imagine, since it has been mentioned since the first days when I was asking for patience. I bet it has been mentioned in every thread I have posted in on this subject.

So what if he was also complaining about a deluge of messages, does that make his behavior any less irrational?

You should really do a lot more research before accusing people of things.

The thing that RPH needs to learn how to handle in a tempered and rational manner is his response to future big mistakes, or future possible big mistakes, of the C4L, or of people associated with it.

You can't please everyone

[Petar]

Why you're searching for RPH's posts on this latest fiasco with the C4L, maybe you should search for mine as well. As RPH will stand by his remarks, so I stand by mine ... ALL OF THEM. Furthermore, I'm sure my remarks will continue to withstand the test of time regardless of your assertions otherwise.

What part of "try searching and reading THOROUGHLY" do you fail to comprehend? I'll even reiterate RPH's request that you try reading his remarks in chronological order before looking more ridiculous than you already do. Again, again, and again, maybe you don't have all the facts behind your biased perception of RPH "flying off the handle", eh? I'm sure if you repeat "flying off the handle" enough, some readers might eventually confuse emotion with "flying off the handle". Frankly, your irrational misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" speaks more unfavorably of you than RPH. * At various points, I was watching the posts flying back and forth with concomitant editing so the current record is only a partial view of the events as they transpired in real-time.

Actually, you're the one being irrational and petulant in your stubbornly ignorant, incessant needling.

So what? Your apparent LACK of emotion and callous indifference to the embarrassment and waste of time caused by C4L's blunder raises a BIG RED FLAG.

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.

I'm not going to comb through all of RPH's posts, and I'm not going to comb through yours either.

All I am saying is that it has been ridiculous for him to maintain this totally hostile attitude, even if he had to deal with a lot of messages in the last few days.

I am not emotionless, I was upset about this too.

The only difference is that I have chosen to not succumb to this utter negativity surrounding the matter, and I am able to put the whole thing into a rational perspective, and see the overwhelming positivity that the C4L still represents.

We need to have cooler heads around here, especially if we are mods.

What "absolute hostility"?

Ah yes, so I'm expected to cite my entire post history on contentious issues to avoid your chastisment, lovely...

Hmmm... that seems a bit hard to imagine, since it has been mentioned since the first days when I was asking for patience. I bet it has been mentioned in every thread I have posted in on this subject.

You should really do a lot more research before accusing people of things.

You can't please everyone

Your attitude towards the C4L has and continues to be utterly hostile.

I don't expect you to cite your entire post history, but if you are going to tell me that you were "thrown off of your game", don't turn around and blame me for not knowing exactly how those words are supposed to relate to every single thing that you have said on this entire forum lately.

Like I said, I'm not about to comb through all of your posts, but your utter hostility towards the C4L has been really ridiculous, and even if you have had to deal with a lot of messages the last few days, that is no excuse.

Your job here as a moderator is to preserve civil discussion on this forum, in order to support our objectives as a political movement.

Rallying a premature lynch mob is the complete opposite of what your focus here needs to be.

[tpreitzel]

I'm not going to comb through all of RPH's posts, and I'm not going to comb through yours either.

All I am saying is that it has been ridiculous for him to maintain this totally hostile attitude, even if he had to deal with a lot of messages in the last few days.

Of course you're not going to examine the posts, because you'd rather make totally inappropriate remarks before appropriately researching the issue. In the meantime, your totally inappropriate remarks likely worsen the situation. Is the latter likelihood your motive?

I am not emotionless, I was upset about this too.

Your own words contradict you. "So what?" * .... Remember? Yes, sir eeee, your response certainly sounds emotionally considerate of RPH's predicament and numerous other people.

The only difference is that I have chosen to not succumb to this utter negativity surrounding the matter, and I am able to put the whole thing into a rational perspective, and see the overwhelming positivity that the C4L still represents.

We need to have cooler heads around here, especially if we are mods.

No, you continue inappropriately slamming RPH for expressing legitimate concerns about the C4L's incomplete vetting of Buck by implying he consistently "flew off the handle". Apparently, in your mind, anyone who raises a legitimate concern about the C4L's foolish mistake is NOW succumbing to utter negativity. Whatever happened to "flying off the handle"?

Your attitude towards the C4L has and continues to be utterly hostile.

LOL! Personally, your inappropriate misrepresentation of RPH's remarks suggests that you need to buy a mirror and gaze into it for awhile. From your warped perspective, his continued insistence that the C4L answer some legitimate questions surrounding this fiasco will likely soon have him wrongly branded as being utterly, utterly, utterly hostile or worse.

Rallying a premature lynch mob is the complete opposite of what your focus here needs to be.

Now, RPH is guility of rallying a premature lynch mob. Choice ...

Until the next round.

* "does not mean that I did not see him consistently flying off of the handle towards the C4L" ... Based on your remark, your allegiance to the C4L apparently trumps constitutional liberty as most of us are fairly sure of RPH's stance on constitutional liberty; hence, your misrepresentation of emotion as "flying off the handle" in this case. Nice ploy.