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Thread: The Myth of Police Protection

  1. #1

    The Myth of Police Protection

    I see a lot of threads regarding police and their actions lately, so I thought this information might explain a few things. At the very least, it's good to know.

    This is excerpted from one of my previous posts.

    During the early morning hours of March 16, 1975 two men (Marvin Kent and James Morse) broke into a house occupied by three women in Washington DC. They found Mrs. Miriam Douglas and her four year old daughter asleep, at which point "...The men entered Douglas' second floor room, where Kent forcer Douglas to sodomize him and Morse raped her." (Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1, 4 (D.C. 1981)) This happened in front of her daughter.

    The two other women in the house, Carrolyn Warren and Joan Taliaferro, heard Douglas' screams and called the police. Within 3 minutes four squad cars were dispatched to the house, but the call was radioed out as a "Code 2," a lower priority call than the "Code 1" usually used for crimes in progress.

    Warren and Taliaferro crawled out a window onto an adjoining roof and waited for the police to show up. When the police arrived, they knocked on the front door, received no response, and just left.

    The two women crawled back in through the window and called the police AGAIN. The call was logged as "investigate the trouble," but no officers were dispatched.

    The men then kidnapped all three women. They forced the women at knifepoint to go to Kent's apartment where "...For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of Kent and Morse." (Id.)

    The three victims sued DC and the officers involved for negligently failing to provide adequate police protection, but their case was dismissed. No jury ever heard any of the evidence.

    The court stated that "official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for failure to provide adequate police protection." According to the court, this rule "rests upon the fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." (Id. emphasis added)

    The Supreme Court itself ruled that one has no constitutional right to state protection in DeShaney v. Winnebego County Dep't. of Soc. Servs., 489 U.S. 189, 109 S. Ct. 998, 103 L. Ed. 2d 249 (1989). Every jurisdiction in the country has upheld similar rulings. It's part of the "qualified immunity" that government claims for itself. It's one of the most well-settled issues in American Jurisprudence.

    Government, AT ANY LEVEL, has no positive duty to protect your life, liberty, or property. They tell you flat out, if you bother to look, that this is the case.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  3. #2
    Quite right. At least they admit it.

    Law Enforcement is NOT for the protection of any individual citizen.

    It is there to protect the interests of the state over the individual citizens.

  4. #3
    The moral of the story? Don't depend on the state to protect you, you are your own protector as well as your families.

  5. #4
    horrible story

    as the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are minutes (or hours) away (or never show)

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    The moral of the story? Don't depend on the state to protect you, you are your own protector as well as your families.
    Wow, how correct! I wish everyone on this board understood what you said here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Quite right. At least they admit it.

    Law Enforcement is NOT for the protection of any individual citizen.

    It is there to protect the interests of the state over the individual citizens.
    Exactly.

    I always thought, since I first learned about this stuff, that the fact that they are NOT under any positive duty to protect an individual's rights, it begs the question who exactly ARE they there to protect?

    Your last comment, in bold, hits the nail right on the head.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vessol View Post
    The moral of the story? Don't depend on the state to protect you, you are your own protector as well as your families.
    And when you do so the odds are pretty good that YOU will be branded the "criminal." Justice for all? Riiiiggghhht.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    And when you do so the odds are pretty good that YOU will be branded the "criminal." Justice for all? Riiiiggghhht.
    Yup. They can't have the people thinking they can protect themselves, afterall, how will you get people to support increased budgets for police and the expansion of the state if they realize that they themselves are their own security?



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  11. #9
    And if you try to protect yourself or your neighbors gas station, this is the language they use - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6837781.html

  12. #10
    comments section on that story is great, btw

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Quite right. At least they admit it.

    Law Enforcement is NOT for the protection of any individual citizen.

    It is there to protect the interests of the state over the individual citizens.
    So true................

  14. #12
    If anyone is interested in more information on this topic, I'd suggest getting the book Dial 911 and Die available from JPFO and probably also from Amazon. It's a good introduction to the whole sordid mess.

    Also, Marc Stevens has more info on this issue specifically and many other legal/constitutional issues at his site here:

    http://marcstevens.net/

    I'd also recommend his book Adventures in Legal Land for more eye-opening information.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  15. #13
    In the educational spirit of this thread I'll also take the opportunity to post this again.

    This video, of a law school professor, is REQUIRED viewing.

    YouTube - Dont Talk to Police
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    In the educational spirit of this thread I'll also take the opportunity to post this again.

    This video, of a law school professor, is REQUIRED viewing.

    YouTube - Dont Talk to Police
    Absolutely! It has gone to all my friends including a few lawyers I know.

  17. #15

    A "more perfect government" is a "necessary tyranny"

    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I see a lot of threads regarding police and their actions lately, so I thought this information might explain a few things. At the very least, it's good to know.

    This is excerpted from one of my previous posts.
    "Necessary tyranny" is organized crime. Organized crime is nothing more than good and bad men working together to exploit the masses. That is why we need to hold the Civil-Purpose of the people above the legal precedence of tyranny, the self evident and unalienable Truth above the stark reality we perceive with our five senses, and the natural law declared by our Founding Fathers above even the supreme law of the land.
    This means not using our government as much as possible. We need to shut as much of it down as possible. The government needs to go back to doing what it use to do best -- picking up the garbage.
    Last edited by Uncle Emanuel Watkins; 01-27-2010 at 04:45 PM. Reason: tweaking

  18. #16
    I can sit through extremely graphic movies, but even so much as reading about rape makes me queasy.



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  20. #17
    So what are you supposed to do, if a cop pulls you over and asks if you've been drinking and you havn't? Do you say that I will not answer your question?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jclay2 View Post
    So what are you supposed to do, if a cop pulls you over and asks if you've been drinking and you havn't? Do you say that I will not answer your question?
    $#@! with him severely, because you are sober!

    And have a cam recording to a remote location so you can sue the city after he has tasered you.

    In all honesty the choice is yours. The best answer is NO answer. Simply tell him that at the advise of your legal counsel you are under no obligation to answer his questions regarding any information excepting establishment of identity.
    Then ask him if all the paper work you have given him (DL/Registration) is in proper order. If he replies in the affirmative ask him if you may proceed or if you are being detained.

  22. #19
    I think we need a new forum called "Law Enforcement". There are way too many police abuses everyday and it would be great if there is a place to go to be aware of what's going on. We could also have advice from different people, like the lawyer who made that video advising not talking to the police if one doesn't have to.

    "Law Enforcement" forum. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by low preference guy; 04-03-2011 at 09:43 PM.

  23. #20

  24. #21
    Very interesting and worthy post, OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CivilRadiant View Post
    Can we get some links to that OP story please.
    I first read about the case back in the mid-1980s while doing legal research on 2nd Amendment issues. It's common knowledge among 2nd Amendment and gun rights advocates, and the story can be found on just about every pro-gun site on the web.

    Here's the Wikipedia enrty on it:

    here

    And here's the actual case from gunrightsalert.com:

    here

    Hope this helps.

    EDIT: Fixed links.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 01-28-2010 at 01:04 AM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Very interesting and worthy post, OP.
    Thanks.

    Ain't government just grand? On the one hand they do everything they can get away with to make it more difficult to flat impossible for individuals to defend themselves, while on the other they're simultaneously denying any responsibility to provide protection.

    Who but government types would create such a flat out evil state of affairs? And then label it "justice." Puh-lease.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 01-27-2010 at 10:30 PM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #24
    bump
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  29. #25

  30. #26
    I can't believe that this thread has gotten so little attention, especially considering how much attention the police abuse threads usually get.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  31. #27

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by libertyjam View Post
    old news
    Glad to see that you're well informed on the issue. But keep in mind that there are likely others who are not.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I see a lot of threads regarding police and their actions lately, so I thought this information might explain a few things. At the very least, it's good to know.

    This is excerpted from one of my previous posts.
    Do you recall where this story was originally posted?

    I ask because one of their goals are to break-up our local police forces by reducing trust between police and the community, reducing the competency of police, dumb-down police training, under-fund police departments, and to highlight stories like this in the media.

    So, while this is clearly an egregious act and total incompetence by the police, and a telling decision by the courts, I'm still left wondering if there is more to understand here.

    * * * Saboteurs and Dupes are on my Ignore List. My non-response means they're included. * * *

    email me anonymously

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Emanuel Watkins View Post
    "Necessary tyranny" is organized crime. Organized crime is nothing more than good and bad men working together to exploit the masses. That is why we need to hold the Civil-Purpose of the people above the legal precedence of tyranny, the self evident and unalienable Truth above the stark reality we perceive with our five senses, and the natural law declared by our Founding Fathers above even the supreme law of the land.
    This means not using our government as much as possible. We need to shut as much of it down as possible. The government needs to go back to doing what it use to do best -- picking up the garbage.
    Amen to that!
    I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
    ~Thomas Jefferson

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