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Thread: Tennessee Guardsman Challenges Supreme Court on 2nd Amendment

  1. #1

    Tennessee Guardsman Challenges Supreme Court on 2nd Amendment

    Richard A. Hamblen, a former commander in the Tennessee National Guard, has lost his family and his fortune because he believes in the Second Amendment. by Joe Wolverton II

    Tennessee Guardsman Challenges Supreme Court on 2nd Amendment


    Joe Wolverton, II | The New American
    25 January 2010


    Richard A. Hamblen has lost his family and his fortune because he believes in the Second Amendment. In April of 2004, Mr. Hamblen, a former commander in the Tennessee National Guard, was arrested by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF). Hamblen, who told the author that he’s never had so much as a traffic violation, was taken from his place of business and charged with the unlawful possession of nine unregistered machine guns.

    Hamblen was found guilty by a trial court and sentenced to 13 months in federal prison. He served his time at the Federal Correctional Institution in Beckley, West Virginia. Upon his release, Hamblen and his attorney, Jeffrey Fensley, appealed his conviction to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, Ohio. On December 30, 2009, that court affirmed the lower court’s ruling and held that, “Whatever the individual right to keep and bear arms might entail, it does not authorize an unlicensed individual to possess unregistered machine guns for personal use.”

    Hamblen disagrees with the Sixth Circuit’s interpretation of the Second Amendment’s guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. “There are no qualifiers on the Second Amendment,” Hamblen told the author. “There are qualifiers on the Fourth Amendment, so if the Founders had intended to restrict the right to keep and bear arms they knew how to do it,” he continued.

    At trial and at the circuit court appeal, Mr. Hamblen averred that he and the soldiers under his command qualified as a militia and thus were authorized to own military grade automatic weapons. According to figures given to the author, Hamblen claims that there are only 21 such weapons in the arsenal meant to equip over 3,000 National Guard troops. Worried that such a woeful stock would hamstring the efforts of his unit were they deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, Hamblen ordered kits that would convert the semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic ones. According to the government, this was a violation of federal law.

    During an interview with the author, Mr. Hamblen demonstrated a cogent and convincing knowledge of the intricacies and inconsistencies of federal firearms laws and Supreme Court decisions interpreting these laws. It is upon two of these high court decisions that Hamblen’s arguments rest.

    First is the case of United States v. Miller in 1939. In this case interpreting the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Supreme Court held that there is a right to keep and bear arms that have a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.”

    As for the crucial definition of “militia,” the Court additionally held that “the signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.”

    Hamblen and his attorney believe that the Miller case applies to his case in that the weapon he was convicted of illegally possessing was a “militarily useful weapon” and one being used by a member of a “well regulated militia,” in this case, the Tennessee National Guard.

    The second prong of Hamblen’s defense is found in a more recent and controversial case in the genealogy of gun control decisions. In the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, Justice Scalia — writing for the majority — held that "like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose." Furthermore, the Court explained that the Heller decision “should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."

    Believing that Justice Scalia misinterpreted the Second Amendment and earlier Supreme Court rulings, Rich Hamblen has appealed the ruling of the Sixth Circuit court of Appeals to the Supreme Court. Despite his defense of the Constitution and its protection of the right to keep and bear arms, Hamblen reports that he has received no support from conservative or gun rights groups such as the National Rifle Association. “My lawyer contacted the NRA and they refused to help,” lamented Hamblen. He expressed belief that the NRA would be “put out of business” if the Court ever correctly interpreted the Second Amendment and ruled that the right to bear arms was purposefully left unqualified by the Founding Fathers.

    “If you have to ask permission to exercise a right, then it isn’t a right,” Hamblen said. He has filed his appeal to the Supreme Court in order to re-establish the intent of the Founders to hold such a right inviolable and not to attach the restrictions of “reasonableness” to the exercise thereof.

    Hamblen holds little hope that the Supreme Court will approve his writ of certiorari and hear his appeal. Regardless, he intends to exhaust every legal remedy in what he sees as the defense of the Constitution. “If no one ever challenges the unconstitutionality of federal laws, then nothing will ever happen,” Hamblen explained.

    Hamblen, the owner of a small business in Nashville, Tennessee, has spent over $50,000 in legal fees and was dishonorably discharged from the Tennessee National Guard. He fervently stands behind his decision to assert his Second Amendment rights to the highest authority in the land. “Does the Constitution have any meaning if those charged with interpreting and applying it are conspiring to suppress the rights guaranteed by it?” Hamblen asks. He boldly and fearlessly answers in the negative. Rich Hamblen has given all in his defense of this right and whether or not the Supreme Court agrees to hear his case, he will have done all in his power to raise his voice and stand steadfastly in support of the sacred and ostensibly inviolable rights protected by our Constitution.


    SOURCE:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....cond-amendment
    ----

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  3. #2
    "He expressed belief that the NRA would be “put out of business” if the Court ever correctly interpreted the Second Amendment and ruled that the right to bear arms was purposefully left unqualified by the Founding Fathers."

    Good point. The very idea that the NRA hounds people constantly for more money so that they can "fight for our rights" sounds increasingly hollow.
    "Molon Labe"

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by catdd View Post
    "He expressed belief that the NRA would be “put out of business” if the Court ever correctly interpreted the Second Amendment and ruled that the right to bear arms was purposefully left unqualified by the Founding Fathers."

    Good point. The very idea that the NRA hounds people constantly for more money so that they can "fight for our rights" sounds increasingly hollow.
    I have heard that argument before.
    "That dog don't hunt."

    If the 2nd amendment was fully respected there would be much for an organization to do. Promoting, supporting and running Marksmanship/Safety programs. Administering ranges, Supporting/Promoting competitions.Marketing or producing Targets, hearing and eye protection etc.
    It could do much.
    Not so much now.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  5. #4
    This case is of vital importance.

    If this conviction stands, the 2A just means you have some right of self defense with such tools as you will be permitted to have - but that type of firearm may be regulated into practical uselessness for anything resembling combat.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  6. #5
    This demonstrates both inflation and how things used to be in regards to what arms were easily available. We should still have access to these.
    Heads and Hips, Heads and Hips!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Hamblen and his attorney believe that the Miller case applies to his case in that the weapon he was convicted of illegally possessing was a “militarily useful weapon” and one being used by a member of a “well regulated militia,” in this case, the Tennessee National Guard.
    Just to keep things as factually correct as possible, I have to point out that the author screwed up on this one. The unit in question is the Tennessee State Guard and not the Tennessee National Guard.

    For another view of the Hamblen v. United States decision, check out the Christiaqn Science Monitor article. No right to bear unlicensed machine guns, federal court says

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  8. #7
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Tennessee Guardsman Challenges Supreme Court on 2nd Amendment

    ...Hamblen and his attorney, Jeffrey Fensley, appealed his conviction to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, Ohio. On December 30, 2009, that court affirmed the lower court’s ruling and held that, “Whatever the individual right to keep and bear arms might entail, it does not authorize an unlicensed individual to possess unregistered machine guns for personal use.”
    How nonsequitur can a ruling be? "Whatever the individual right to keep and bear arms might entail..." So what those idiots basically say is that they do not care what RKBA may actually mean, you still don't have the right to keep a machine gun, even if you do. Let this go to the SCOTUS and let them do the right thing with it.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Let this go to the SCOTUS and let them do the right thing with it.
    They will not hear the case I am betting money.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  12. #10
    Rich Hamblen and his case were recently discussed on Lew Rockwell's site:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/55862.html


    .
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  13. #11
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  14. #12
    Here is Rich Hamblen being interviewed on Free Talk Radio last week:
    http://www.zshare.net/audio/758008255a995ee5/#
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  15. #13
    The thought of the state charging somebody to vote, to exercise their freedom of religion or speech is just attrocious.

    Notwithstanding Alaska, Arizona and Vermont residents, citizens have to pay to exercise a fundamental right that's guaranteed per the Constitution.

    The McDonald v. Chicago decision will be a watershed moment in the gun rights movement. Hopefully more and more challenges are made so this right can be enjoyed by every peaceable person that chooses to protect themselves and their families.

  16. #14
    Interesting.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ZanZibar View Post
    Interesting.
    What is more interesting is that is depends on which circuit the case is tried:

    You are OK here:

    http://www.constitution.org/2ll/cour...ock_island.htm

    But not OK here (court also went for the "Collective right" argument fo the 2A):

    http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid...rdoin-19983492

    Although it features one of the best dissents ever - in part:

    the BATF continues to arrest and convict citizens like Ardoin under the NFA for not registering and paying taxes on their machine guns even though it is legally impossible for them to do so. Because I do not believe that a statute which was enacted to tax a legal activity can legitimately be mutated into a statute that criminalizes that very same activity, and because I believe that convicting citizens for violating laws with which they cannot possibly comply is fundamentally unfair,.....

    Neither the BATF nor the majority indicates why the BATF continues to prosecute citizens under the NFA for mere possession of machine guns when Congress has enacted section 922(o) of FOPA for that very purpose and when the relevant NFA provisions were enacted not to ban machine
    guns, but expressly to collect taxes from firearm-owning citizens. respectfully dissent.

    Until the enactment of section 922(o) of the FOPA, a citizen could legally make, transfer, or possess a machine gun, as long as he complied with the relevant registration and tax provisions of the NFA. Simply put, since 1934 the NFA has said to such a citizen, "You may manufacture, transfer, or possess a machine gun if but only if you register and pay taxes on it." Then along came section 922(o) of the FOPA some fifty-two years later and declared to that same citizen, "You may not manufacture, possess, or transfer machine guns period."

    What sense does the NFA make now? The BATF operates as though Congress has passed two separate laws each criminalizing the mere possession of machine guns, leaving the BATF with the discretion to prosecute citizens' possession under either statute (or both). But that is not and cannot be the case. <br><br>Why then does the BATF continue to prosecute citizens under NFA solely for the possession of machine guns, rather than resorting to section 922(o), which Congress expressly designed for that purpose? Perhaps because the statutory maximum fines for violating the NFA are greater than those provided under the FOPA. More likely, BATF agents and prosecutors find it easier to get convictions under the NFA, both because it appears to have an easier mens rea requirement, and because the laundry list of possible statutory violations is so very long.

    The majority offers two responses to Ardoin's dilemma: (1) Congress has the authority to choose to tax an activity even though such activity is illegal; and (2) Ardoin could have complied with the application and tax provisions of the NFA simply "by not possessing or manufacturing any post-1986 machineguns." Try as I may, I cannot find either argument convincing.

    The majority's assertion that Congress has the power to tax illegal activities is correct, but in my opinion that assertion is also irrelevant. The question here is not what Congress could have done, but what it did.
    Last edited by Pericles; 01-11-2012 at 06:58 PM.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  18. #16
    It is a shame no one supported Hamblin. Not the SAF, NRA, GOA, or even the local TFA. Hamblin is a highly educated person who does not deserve a felony for the offense of not registering a machine gun when the government would not accept the tax.



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  20. #17
    I recall some talk about how they viewed the 2nd Amendment to pertain only to muzzle loaders. Well... those muskets were the assault rifle of their day!
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    It is a shame no one supported Hamblin. Not the SAF, NRA, GOA, or even the local TFA. Hamblin is a highly educated person who does not deserve a felony for the offense of not registering a machine gun when the government would not accept the tax.
    He needed to be in this court:


    Cite as U.S. v. Bownds, 860 F. Supp. 336 (S.D Miss. 1994) UNITED STATES of America, V. Charles M. BOWNDS. Crim. A. No. 3:94-CR-50BN. United States District Court, S.D. Mississippi, Jackson Division. Aug. 18, 1994.
    blah blah blah ..... then


    In light of the Fifth Circuit's recent holding in Lopez, this Court finds 18 U.S.C. section 922(o) unconstitutional and orders the indictment against Defendant Charles Bownds dismissed.

    Then the 5th circuit reversed it, just like in Ardoin.
    Last edited by Pericles; 01-11-2012 at 08:50 PM.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    This case is of vital importance.

    If this conviction stands, the 2A just means you have some right of self defense with such tools as you will be permitted to have - but that type of firearm may be regulated into practical uselessness for anything resembling combat.
    That is absolutely horrendous!!! First let me say that I believe in a COMPLETELY unrestricted second ammendment. Anything else implies that citizens, as a whole, aren't competent enough to determine when to carry, transport, or use a firearm. This logic is totally regimist and unduly restrictive to the sanctity of United States citizens. The SCOTUS would have you believe that ONLY law enforcement and government personnel have the mental capacity to properly "control" their exercise of the second ammendment. The truth is, they are often the LEAST capable!!! The SCOTUS should be punished for not upholding the Constitution, and if they do not take this case, they should be impeached for not doing their duty to hear constitutional cases and adjudicate constitutional issues.

  23. #20
    I believe one day all this will be corrected.......sure it may take a civil war/revolution to make the courts eventually see it.......and again, it's partially our fault as well to let the courts/and the gov't to get this out of control......I remeber in 1986 when they was talking about banning machine guns and even the NRA sold us out.......and most people had the attitude "who needs a machine gun"..........but the slipply ground started..........then came the different assualt weapon bans/etc.......... we're at the point to arm up........everyone senses it.........the fight is around the corner...........have something GOOD to fight with...........BO is the best firearm salesperson yet.....

  24. #21

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by greenghost1964 View Post
    ...I remeber in 1986 when they was talking about banning machine guns and even the NRA sold us out.......and most people had the attitude "who needs a machine gun"..........but the slipply ground started..........then came the different assualt weapon bans/etc...
    The SAF has sold us out on assault weapons. Have you read any of their court briefs lately? Their position is that assault weapons should not be carried. Their position on the carry of firearms is that carry may be regulated through licensing.

  26. #23
    No I cant say I have.........

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    I recall some talk about how they viewed the 2nd Amendment to pertain only to muzzle loaders. Well... those muskets were the assault rifle of their day!
    People who bring out that BS argument, I just tell them the 1st amendment was for printing presses and computers weren't even invented at the time so they don't count. They shut up pretty quickly after that.
    Mother should I trust the government?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Brick-in-the-Wall View Post
    People who bring out that BS argument, I just tell them the 1st amendment was for printing presses and computers weren't even invented at the time so they don't count. They shut up pretty quickly after that.
    Speech is speech... arms are arms. The Constitution applies to all speech! Why shouldn't it apply to all arms (as personal arms are defined)? It's a little hypocritical that you can say it applies to one thing, but not the other, when they are within the same context.
    Last edited by AFPVet; 03-04-2012 at 05:21 PM.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    Speech is speech... arms are arms. The Constitution applies to all speech! Why shouldn't it apply to all arms (as personal arms are defined)? It's a little hypocritical that you can say it applies to one thing, but not the other, when they are within the same context.
    I don't see any limitation in the 2A to personal arms vis a vis crew served weapons, artillery, etc.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    What is more interesting is that is depends on which circuit the case is tried:
    One of the biggest problems this nation faces is a Judge who legislates from the bench.
    You are 100% correct that it depends which circuit court deals with this, or any other case.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brick-in-the-Wall View Post
    People who bring out that BS argument, I just tell them the 1st amendment was for printing presses and computers weren't even invented at the time so they don't count. They shut up pretty quickly after that.
    Great response ... I'll have to remember that.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Great response ... I'll have to remember that.
    And it was only for manual presses - automatic presses did not exist either.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  34. #30
    If you have to ask permission to exercise the right then it is not a right. Imagine the outrage if we required people take a course in civics and the constitution before being granted the right to vote. Imagine if it was challenged that only children of US citizens are allowed the right to an education?

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