Collapse of the US: Soviet style?

[Patriot123]

As a high school student, what scares me the most is the potential for this nation to fall flat on its face very much like how the Soviet Union fell. I was listening to the radio today, and heard that the State of New York just went bankrupt, like California has. And then this health care legislation that could be passed, and put us into trillions of dollars of debt? The rising unemployment rate that people thought was going to go down with Obama? The falling value of the dollar? The possibility that the dollar may be dropped as the world currency? The war in Afghanistan; a nation that has chewed and spit out world powers before?
Quite honestly? I feel kind of jipped. The generations before mine have abused this country, and made it into... something it never was supposed to be or should be -- something that can't even hold its own weight. It doesn't feel like they were trying to better us, but rather just themselves. If this nation collapses, my generation wouldn't have the opportunity to get an education, to try to "work to live the American dream," to do anything -- none of us will, because there will be no nation to have that in -- a nation that our forefathers promised us, that the past generations have just stolen through creating an unpayable national debt and all these regulations and government programs.

So my question, and ultimate reason for making this topic, is this: do you realistically think that the United States could collapse under Obama? If yes, why? If no, why -- and do you believe there's any chance it could under, say, Palin, if she gets elected?

[Michigan11]

I think you know how to think. You are spot on.

[Arklatex]

Patriot, I feel your pain. Could it really collapse? Man it's hard to say, I believe in the people of the states, I fear the yes though, our Washington may very well bankrupt us and that while there are many, many involved who were naive there are many who are crooks. Could we collapse USSR style?

We can't service the debt, what will be the result?

high Inflation? I'd say it's a given folks.

There are too many people in this country who can't get by without the Federal Government, they are dependents. It's going to get very ugly if our social programs default. They'll print money I can tell you that.

[jclay2]

Even though our country is in a bad position, you should remember that we still have the most wealth on earth! We have a tremendous amount of resources and potential for our future. Sure our country has massive debt, but so do other countries. And in fact, we actually have much lower debt ratios than many other countries. With that beeing said, I do think that our country (do to the federal reserve and massive government borrowings) are set for a period of unusually high inflation. Yes there will be financial pain, but a full blown collapse will probably not happen in the medium term. Just so you don't freak out, Argentina had a financial collapse only 8 years ago or so. It was bad in the short term but they eventually turned back to growth and were ok. Basically my advice for you would be to SAVE as much as possible and continue to try to influence others with the ideas of liberty. Everything else is outside our control. just my two cents though.

[wd4freedom]

I do not think it will collapse as did the USSR. Our government may indeed fail, but the people of this country still control tremendous amounts of wealth (valued products and commodities). Thus others would purchase and acquire this wealth as soon as they could possibly get their hands on it. In the USSR system, their "wealth products" were (and many still are) grossly inferior- few investors wanted any piece of this system during their collapse.

[LiveFree79]

The "tremendous" amount of wealth you guys are talking about is in the hands of an extremly small portion of US society. A majority of Americans are in debt, unable to pay their bills i.e. mortgages, cars, higher education, healthcare etc. Sure there is a lot of wealth in the US but it is hardly the middle class that holds most of it. The amount of wealth in this country that is held by the top 1% is obsene and disgusting. The US won't collapse but the middle class is being decimated. We are heading towards a country of the poor and the rich. So who cares how much wealth this country has as long as its in the hands of the few. Most of us will never see any of it.

Just look at how expensive college is getting. How many people are ever going to be able to retire at 65 years old in our generation? (30s). America is going down the $#@!ter.....it will never be the country it once was. Our government is far too gone and far too corrupt supported by an extremely insane military industrial complex. In fact I'd say we aren't even a constitutional republic anymore and are more fascistic than ever.

[heavenlyboy34]

The "tremendous" amount of wealth you guys are talking about is in the hands of an extremly small portion of US society. A majority of Americans are in debt, unable to pay their bills i.e. mortgages, cars, higher education, healthcare etc. Sure there is a lot of wealth in the US but it is hardly the middle class that holds most of it. The amount of wealth in this country that is held by the top 1% is obsene and disgusting. The US won't collapse but the middle class is being decimated. We are heading towards a country of the poor and the rich. So who cares how much wealth this country has as long as its in the hands of the few. Most of us will never see any of it.

Just look at how expensive college is getting. How many people are ever going to be able to retire at 65 years old in our generation? (30s). America is going down the $#@!ter.....it will never be the country it once was. Our government is far too gone and far too corrupt supported by an extremely insane military industrial complex. In fact I'd say we aren't even a constitutional republic anymore and are more fascistic than ever.

Considering that health and food standards are much higher than when that retirement age was "officially" established, why not buck the system and keep working? Stick it to the man and be self-sufficient, says I! It's true that a small portion of the population controls a lot of wealth, but that is because only a small portion of the population is capable of this. Most people only want to work 40 hour weeks, have their employer pay for their health care, and mooch off of "the social safety net" (soc security, medicare, etc). I agree with you about the military industrial complex and fascism, tho. ttyl.

[Mini-Me]

Considering that health and food standards are much higher than when that retirement age was "officially" established, why not buck the system and keep working? Stick it to the man and be self-sufficient, says I! It's true that a small portion of the population controls a lot of wealth, but that is because only a small portion of the population is capable of this. Most people only want to work 40 hour weeks, have their employer pay for their health care, and mooch off of "the social safety net" (soc security, medicare, etc). I agree with you about the military industrial complex and fascism, tho. ttyl.

Oh, come on heavenlyboy. You know as well as the rest of us that the wealth concentration is systemic and the result of regulations, taxes, and above all, inflationary fiat money. Blaming it on the "laziness" of the average person is silly, and it should really be left to the neocons who refuse to acknowledge our systemic problems (i.e. who actually think what we have is capitalism, and that it's working).

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

As a high school student, what scares me the most is the potential for this nation to fall flat on its face very much like how the Soviet Union fell. I was listening to the radio today, and heard that the State of New York just went bankrupt, like California has. And then this health care legislation that could be passed, and put us into trillions of dollars of debt? The rising unemployment rate that people thought was going to go down with Obama? The falling value of the dollar? The possibility that the dollar may be dropped as the world currency? The war in Afghanistan; a nation that has chewed and spit out world powers before?
Quite honestly? I feel kind of jipped. The generations before mine have abused this country, and made it into... something it never was supposed to be or should be -- something that can't even hold its own weight. It doesn't feel like they were trying to better us, but rather just themselves. If this nation collapses, my generation wouldn't have the opportunity to get an education, to try to "work to live the American dream," to do anything -- none of us will, because there will be no nation to have that in -- a nation that our forefathers promised us, that the past generations have just stolen through creating an unpayable national debt and all these regulations and government programs.

So my question, and ultimate reason for making this topic, is this: do you realistically think that the United States could collapse under Obama? If yes, why? If no, why -- and do you believe there's any chance it could under, say, Palin, if she gets elected?

Part me of is trying to do everything I can to stop it from happening. The other part of me is trying to educate enough people so when it does collapse, their may just be a pocket of libertarians somewhere that will do what is right, and what is truth. That's why I'm moving to NH as soon as I can.

Yes, I also understand your position. It is a crying shame. Selfish pissants ruining it for all of us. This has gone all the way back to John Adams and Abraham Lincoln though. I think all we can do now is educate yourself, get the message out, and try and put yourself in the best possible position to survive whatever may come. It's not going to be armaggaedon by any shot, but it is going to get very, very rough.

As for a timeline. Who knows. I'm more excited to see which states start to use in order: Nullification, Interposition, and then if need be Secession. Particularly interested in the last.

Let's learn from the past so we don't put our posterity in the same position we currently are.

[jclay2]

Oh, come on heavenlyboy. You know as well as the rest of us that the wealth concentration is systemic and the result of regulations, taxes, and above all, inflationary fiat money. Blaming it on the "laziness" of the average person is silly, and it should really be left to the neocons who refuse to acknowledge our systemic problems (i.e. who actually think what we have is capitalism, and that it's working).

I am with you on the reasons you laid out but I still think heavenlyboy has a point. Look at all the immigrants who come here from india or (insert country here). They study hard, work long hours, and SAVE their a** off. Then , they are rich. Its actually quite amazing how much wealth can be amassed just by living beneath your means and saving. For instance, my finance prof was able to grow his networth by 5 million dollars in 25 years. Both he and his wife work, but the secret is in their lifestyle and savings rate. They still live in the same house that they bought 20 years ago and currently save 40% of their gross income. A huge portion of american could be come wealthy if they wanted to, they just don't want to. They are to busy with consumerism and keeping up with the jones's.